yomyyo24,
I’m glad the site could help you … and congratulations on your new mattress as well 
Phoenix
First Night Report - T&N 10"
Since this is the “diary” thread I thought it would be okay to give my initial report here, in case it’s helpful to anyone else.
Received the mattress as scheduled and getting it out of the plastic and unrolled/uncompressed was easy as pie.
Upon first laying down on it, my boyfriend and I were both really pleased. I’ve never slept on an all-foam mattress before, and I really liked the sensation of feeling such firm support while also having just the right amount of softness. The lack of motion-transfer is great, and this mattress definitely resists the crater issue that my 70-lbs-heavier-than-me BF caused on the old mattress. There’s a bit of a crater if I’m super close to him, (and he likes to sleep-cuddle whereas I’d prefer more room, but that’s a relationship issue not a mattress issue, heh.) But if he’s at least a few inches away I feel like I’m actually sleeping on a level surface for the first time in months/years.
Unfortunately I woke up with a lot of back pain this morning. I think I was expecting immediate miracles with my new T&N which is probably unfair. My back pain is mid-back, in the muscles right along my spine, and more on one side than the other. I think when I’m on my side I tend to twist too much - tilting my hips forward to almost a half-stomach position while keeping my shoulders more upright somewhat like Phoenix describes in this post.
I think (?) that I developed this bad sleeping posture to compensate for the crater issue with my old bed, and I really hope that after a few weeks of the T&N I’ll be able to un-learn it and the back pain will ease. I definitely felt okay when I was sleeping on my back, it’s just that I’m probably a 70% side-sleeper so I do need things to get better on that front. I felt a little bit of hip pressure from the firmness of the mattress at first so we’ll see if that continues or eases.
Overall I’m still pleased with my decision to give the T&N a try given how easy it was to purchase and the easy return policy. I still have hope that giving my body a few weeks to adjust and the mattress some time to break in will lead to a good sleep experience for me.
Okay, I will follow suit and give my initial thoughts on our new 10 inch Tuft & Needle. Tonight will actually be the first night to sleep on them, so this is based more on initial impressions and laying in bed for about 30 minutes.
I ordered two twin xl’s to do a split king arrangement on adjustable bases. The mattresses shipped separately, with one arriving a few days ago and the second just getting here yesterday. Opened each as soon as I received them, but chose to let them expand for a day before sleeping on them. Not sure that is necessary. They each seemed to expand immediately.
Right now the mattresses are just on our old foundation because wanted to sleep on them that way for a few nights before putting the mattress on the new adjustable bases.
My initial impression can be summed up by “uncertain.” I have never slept on anything other than a traditional inner-spring, so sure that is some of the uncertainty. Had I tried this in a store it is definitely not one I would have picked, but sleeping on it for a few nights may be an eye opener.
The mattress is firm, even with the plush mattress cover on it. I am a big heavy guy, and it does not give much, even for me. (I do have a latex topper already that I may add to the mattress later, but want to try just the mattress for now.) I also like the pillow top feel, and this is definitely not that. Laying on the mattress on my back I do not seem to have the feel or support I would like on my lower back just above my hips. I am solely a side sleeper, so this may be irrelevant to me, just something I noticed laying on the mattress to “test it out.” My wife can sleep on anything, and frankly I could too up until a few months ago when started noticing lower back pain in the morning.
One thing I noticed about the Tuft & Needle mattresses is that the two twin xl’s, even pushed as tight together as possible, is wider than our old Beautyrest King. Not much, but the two together barely go between the side rails of the bed, whereas with the old mattress there was probably and inch of space on each side. Length seems about the same, just the sides. Adds a little effort to put the mattress pad and sheets on, I do like the thinner height than the old mattress though. The old mattress was 14" pillow top, and these are only 10" thick. The thickness is one of the reasons I chose this one - felt it would probably work better on adjustable bases being thinner.
Another thing to note is the “divide” between the two mattresses. I have never had this arrangement before, and was concerned it would be noticeable. It is not. With the mattress pad on you can certainly lay in the middle of the bed and never know it was a split mattress, In fact, even feeling for the divide with your hand trying to find where they lay side by side doesn’t work. This may change with the adjustable bases, but right now you would never know there are two mattresses there instead of a single king mattress. The corners are not rounded on the mattress and simply no way to tell. This may change once on adjustable bases with different movements.
We will see what sleeping on the mattress tonight brings. I have doubts at the moment, but certainly hope this works. Wasn’t all that easy for me to get the mattresses out of the box, plastic off, etc, though clearly the worst part was getting the old king mattress out of the house. And have to admit I took pleasure in getting rid of it - kept it too long for sure (about 20 years) and the sag in the old mattress started giving me back pain the last couple of months.
Will post a follow up after about a week of actually sleeping on it.
Basil
@Basil: The thing I have noticed in using the mattress for several nights now is that on first impression it is very firm. I think that each time I lay down on it, and I am a larger than average sized man, too. I definitely float on top. Each time I lay down I think it’s too firm, but surprisingly this feeling of being too firm does not equate into pressure points or any lack of support during the night.
It’s a strange combination, I know, feeling like the T&N bed is too hard but realizing after use that the normal effects of a too hard mattress do not come into play. Very unique feeling that may be part of the whole switch to a latex mattress or may be unique to a T&N latex mattress. I’m not sure about that.
So, let’s ask Phoenix: Are most latex mattresses “firm” as a characteristic or is this firmness unique to a brand?
Hi dwerzemens,
Yes … this is certainly a suitable topic to post your feedback (although your own topic would be fine as well) since it has the most comments and feedback from forum members about the Tuft and Needle Ten.
There are some suggestions in post #2 here (particularly about your mattress protector or any mattress pads you may be using and about your foundation) that may be helpful but outside of some of the “non mattress” suggestions that can make a difference the best approach (as you mentioned) is normally to wait a few weeks so that you have a chance to adjust to a new sleeping surface and your mattress has a chance to break in.
I’m looking forward to any ongoing feedback you have the chance to share over the next few weeks to see if and how your experience changes.
Just for clarity … Tuft and Needle doesn’t use any latex in their mattresses. Their comfort layers are a high performance polyfoam that has been formulated to have some of the contouring or “point elasticity” properties of latex or memory foam but it is less resilient (springy) than latex and it isn’t a slow response or temperature sensitive material like memory foam. Their base layer is a conventional high density polyfoam. There is more about the materials they use in posts #2 and #6 here.
The properties of a mattress are the result of and the “sum total” of the materials inside it and are specific to the materials that are used and to the design of a mattress (which may be unique to a specific manufacturer). If other manufacturers were to use similar materials in similar layer thicknesses and similar firmness levels and a similar design and cover then the mattress would also be similar in terms of its feel and response. All materials (including latex and polyfoam) come in a wide range of firmness levels as well so they can be softer or firmer depending on the specific layers and components in the mattress so this is also specific to the firmness of the layers and components that a manufacturer chooses to use in their mattress and not to the type of material.
Phoenix
Hi Basilk,
Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback as well … I appreciate it
I would also make the same comments as I did for dwerzemens about giving the mattress some time for you to adjust to a new sleeping surface and for the mattress to break in and possibly checking some of the “non mattress” suggestions that I linked in my previous reply as well.
If you have a thicker mattress pad (vs a thinner more stretchy mattress protector) then it may be affecting with the feel and response of the foam underneath it and interfering with its ability to contour as well to your body shape which can affect both comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment when you sleep on the mattress. This could result in a “feel” that was both a little softer in terms of surface feel (from the mattress pad) and a little firmer in the layers underneath it that don’t contour to your body shape as well. A thinner more stretchy mattress protector may allow the mattress to perform a little more closely to the way it was designed.
The twin XL size is also 39" wide (twin sizes are sometimes 38" wide and sometimes 39" wide) so two of them together would be a little wider than a king size which is generally 76" x 80".
The gap between two twin XL mattresses that have squared off edges usually won’t be nearly as noticeable with a mattress pad on top but as I mentioned a thicker mattress pad will also have its own tradeoffs in terms of how it affects the mattress. There is more about split king mattresses in post #2 here and the posts it links to.
Phoenix
Slept on this new 10 inch mattress for 3 nights too firm for me. can’t sleep on back or side without pain in the morning in my lower back. Would a 1 inch latex topper help? We had a 2 inch memory gel topper for old bed. Could not turn side to side with needing a push.
Give it a few more days. That’s my advice. The mattress is very firm, but after a few days you will no longer notice that firmness and rather just notice the comfort. There’s a reason why T&N offers a 30 day trial period. It takes a few days. My first thought, after a few sleeps, was that it was WAY to firm. Take some more time …
My T&N mattress is finally out for delivery - yay! Will post again once I sleep on it.
Since I wrote about this earlier in this topic, I wanted to give a little update about the Classic Novosbed I ordered in January. Last week I was contacted by Caitlin, a Novosbed Customer Service Representative. She read about my experience with the Classic on this forum and wanted to follow up with me. She asked me a series of questions: How long did I let it expand, what’s the current height of the mattress and asked me to email her a few pictures. After I sent my responses, she emailed that it looks like the Classic that I have is defective. She said the Classic is firm - similar to the Tempur Contour Elite and I shouldn’t have the “sinking” feeling that I have been experiencing. She offered me the choice of having it replaced or returning it before the required 60 day trial period. Since I had already ordered the T&N, I decided to return the Classic and give the T&N a try. I may not have been pleased with the Classic Novosbed I received, but I appreciate the extra effort Novosbed and Caitlin took to look into the situation.
Hi Watson4321,
Thanks for the update and its great to hear that Novosbed took the time to reach out and follow up with you.
NOTE ADDED JAN, 2016: They have now introduced their new simplified choice mattress which has replaced their previous models and have also become a member of this site.
Phoenix
Hi Nynygirl77-
Here is a copy of what I wrote in another post a few days ago (to Basil). Thought I would copy it here, maybe this will help you and others struggling the first few nights on the TN.
We had purchased a 10" Tuft and Needle queen in December.
A couple of considerations:
Like you, I felt the first couple of nights the bed was way too firm. I e-mailed Tuft and Needle, and asked a few questions to Phoenix here the first week.
A couple of things Tuft and Needle, and/or Phoenix told me: the first few nights, the foam may feel much firmer than it really is, part of the reason is because the mattress sat on a cold truck during delivery. The foam takes a few days to warm up, and the foam will soften after warming. I absolutely found this to be true. For about the first week, I found the mattress to be very cold when I first got into bed- one aspect I absolutely hated- I started using my heating pad before getting into bed. Now, the mattress is not cold when I get into bed at night. I assume it did take awhile for the mattress to warm up. About day 4 or 5 though, it was a bit softer and warmer than when it first arrived.
Another thing about that cold foam- the first night, I noticed no smell coming from the mattress, and I thought, great, no yucky odor like memory foam or regular polyfoam toppers I’ve experienced. The second night there was a light odor. Then on the third day and fourth day, the odor got very strong. Tuft and Needle thought this was because the foam was warming up- and yes, the new foam does have an odor. For us, it took about 3 weeks for the odor to finally disappear, although Tuft and Needle said most people have told them the odor is gone after a week. Thankfully the foam is Certipur, so the odor is not harmful.
Also, like you discovered, a thick mattress pad can make the mattress firmer. We did the same thing- the first night, had our old, thickly padded mattress pad on the Tuft and Needle. It didn’t make sense to me either, but the foam of this mattress seems to be the best feel if it can “cradle” your body, if that makes sense. Tuft and Needle, and Phoenix here, mentioned that a mattress pad can interfer with the ability of the foam to cradle all your body parts and cushion them. I had bad pressure points in my shoulder and hips with the mattress pad, but now have no pressure points with just a thick flannel sheet.
I found it took about 2 1/2- 3 weeks for the foam to soften up. And yes, it does soften up. When we first got the mattress, I described it as firm, and the first few nights, very firm, probably because it was still cold and firmer from sitting on a deliver truck. The foam has broken in, and now I’d say the foam is on the firm end of: medium firm. However, we all experience mattress firmness and softness differently, I’m describing it compared to other mattresses I’ve felt in mattress showrooms.
Phoenix said that it takes a little while for the foam to break in- the way I understand it is, when foam is new- there are “cells” that have to “break”, and larger “cells” become smaller “cells” which equates to a softer feel. To help speed this process, I literally walked all over the entire surface of the mattress once or twice a day for a week. To be honest, it made my legs tired! And it is a good exercise in balance- I suggest another person to help you balance if you find yourself unsteady while walking on the surface.
The first week, the Tuft and Needle was better than our old latex/innerspring mattress that had me in so much pain, that I had to take prescription pain medication to sleep (I eventually spent 4 years on our guest futon while my husband continued to sleep on the latex/innerspring in the master bedroom), but I still was waking up a few times a night on the new Tuft and Needle and not entirely happy with the new mattress. After the first week, I considered the mattress “okay”, but I wasn’t in love with it for the first month. I didn’t have pressure point pain, and I was sleeping okay, but the feel of the mattress wasn’t what I was used to after decades sleeping on innerspring mattresses.
Now, after 2 months on the Tuft and Needle, i am completely in love with the mattress. That “love” come at about week 5. I no longer need to take pain medication to sleep in the master bedroom, and I’m not waking up with any pain at all- for the past 20 years, I’ve had pain upon waking, so this is amazing to me. My body has adjusted, and the mattress has broken in.
I know it’s hard to sleep on something that’s not entirely comfortable, but believe everything you read here on Mattress Underground that talks about adjustments to a new mattress- it does take a few weeks for a new mattress to break in and for your body to adjust to a new type of sleeping surface.
After a few weeks, if the mattress is not comfortable, then it probably isn’t suitable to you, and not a good match for the “PPP” that Phoenix is always talking about. That was the case with our last mattress- we had always had mainstream innerspring mattresses that instantly felt good to me, but would sag in a year- so for our last mattress we got a latex/innerspring that never ended up working for me, partly because I didn’t know anything about how to purchase a mattress and just bought a firm latex/innerspring hoping it would break in and last a long time. Wish I had known about Mattress Underground before that expensive purchase.
Although the Tuft and Needle might not be the right mattress for you, I can tell you from my own experience on this mattress, that your experience on it is likely to change after a few weeks. Hopefully for the better. Walk on the surface to help break it in. Don’t use a mattress pad. Use a room heater, if you have one, the first week to help warm up the mattress. Write an e-mail to Tuft and Needle to express your concerns, they can give more tips.
For me personally, this mattress is just about perfect in terms of “PPP”, and I’m glad I took the chance to order something untried before purchase. I know this won’t be the case for everyone, and the mattress may not work for you, but give it a few weeks before making a determination.
Good luck!
Here’s an update of my first night with my T&N:
Our 10 in. T&N was delivered yesterday - yay! The box it quite large, but with the help of my 10 year old, I was able to get it up the stairs to our room. I easily removed the wrapping and it puffed into life quite fast - within a minute. I prefer a firm mattress, so my first impression was that it was surprisingly soft - which went against what many others on this thread have written. When I first laid down on it (just as a test, not for the night), I was surprised by the amount of “give” in the top comfort layer. I prefer a firm bed and was worried that this perceived softness or give would be too much.
After one night, I completely changed my mind about it being soft. Sleeping on it, it is definitely a firm mattress. Because it was new and I am not used to it yet, I found that I woke up 6-8 times to change positions (from side to back or vice versa). But… I did not change positions because of pressure points or pain, just because it was different. I awoke this morning with tightness (not pain) in my shoulders and this tightness has slowly been dissipating throughout the morning. I think the number of times I awaken will change as I get used to the mattress and as it softens a bit (as others have written in this thread). Hope this helps anyone planning on purchasing a T&N.
That waking up several times the first night was my experience as well for my wife and I, though we did even more. Few points from others and from my experience.
- Do NOT use any mattress pad or topper - foam confirms better without.
- It will NOT be the same mattress next week - not even close as it warms and breaks in (but don’t worry, still very firm).
- Walking on it helps speeds the process considerably. We have a split king - one mattress I walked on several times, the other has only been slept on. The one that has been walked on is noticeably different than the other, though suspect the other would eventually get to the same point thru just sleeping on it, but will take dramatically longer.
Right now, for me, even the “broken in” mattress still too firm or something. I continue to have that pain between my shoulders in the morning.
Basil
Hi Watson4321,
Thanks for taking the time to share your initial comments and feedback on your new Tuft & Needle … I appreciate it :).
As you’ve read … your experience with any new mattress can change to some degree over the first few weeks as the mattress breaks in and you get used to the feel of a new sleeping surface and I’m looking forward to any ongoing comments you have the chance to share as well.
Phoenix
Our current mattress is past its time to be replaced, so we’re going to give the T&N a try soon. My coworker tried the original model, but found it to be too firm, so he went through their simple return policy and was very satisfied with their service. I’ll report back my experience with the new model after we’ve been able to sleep on it for a while.
I have had my T&N 10" for three weeks. I sleep alone in the bed and noticed yesterday that the side I sleep on is already noticeably softer than it originally was. The side I have not slept on is still noticeably firmer as delivered. The conclusion I have drawn is that there is a break in period where the mattress gets softer with use. It’s not simply a matter of having the mattress expanded over time as only the side that has been used has softened up.
At this point the side I sleep on is still very firm and supportive, just noticeably softer when I sit on the edge than the side that I don’t sleep on is when I sit on that edge.
I am hopeful this is part of the engineering and design and not a sign that the mattress might began to sag over time. Time will tell.
dwzemens-
Somewhere, I can’t find the post now, but Phoenix explained the way that polyfoam breaks in when it is new, and why it softens up in the first couple of weeks:
The way I understand it, the foam is created of “cells” and as you lie on it, the larger cells of foam break down into smaller cells, creating a softer feel. However, I think after the first few weeks, after the larger cells break down into smaller cells, the foam stabilizes and should keep that feel. Given the decent density that Tuft and Needle uses in their top layer of polyfoam, I understand sagging shouldn’t be a problem for several years. And if the mattress does sag, Tuft and Needle has a warranty: From the Tuft and Needle website:
What if the foam forms irregular indentations and is getting body impressions?
This is unlikely to happen for at least 7-10 years. We consider increased softness such as body impressions or permanent indentations to fall under our 10 year warranty. If you observe a visible indentation greater than 3/4 of an inch (about the length of your thumb, from tip to knuckle) please let our team know so that we can help you replace the mattress.
The first week we had the mattress, I walked all over the surface once or twice a day. I am quite sure that this helped speed the break in process.
We have rotated our mattress once- so the head portion of the bed is on the foot portion (not “flipped”, but rotated). I am hoping this will lengthen the time the mattress lasts. I don’t know how often to do this, but planning every 6-8 weeks.
Hi dwzemens,
There is a break in and adjustment period for a few weeks with any new mattress where the foams will lose any of their “false firmness” and the cover will loosen a bit and the materials will settle and this is completely normal (see post #3 here).
With foam materials what actually happens is that some of the thin “windows” in the foam cells break and open up which results in a slight loss of firmness and stiffness in the foam but once the break in process is complete after a few weeks then the firmness will stabilize and any further softening would be much more gradual over a much longer period of time.
The Tuft & Needle mattress uses high quality/density and durable materials (2.8 lb high performance polyfoam in the comfort layer and 1.8 lb polyfoam in the support core) so outside of the normal break in period for any foam material in the first few weeks you can expect that there won’t be any issues with premature foam softening or sagging over the course of the useful life of the mattress.
You can see the rotation schedule that I would suggest in post #2 here.
Phoenix
Wow, a ton of info here. I’m about an inch away from buying one of these things, but I’m super nervous. The casper seems great, and maybe a little more to my liking, but I think I can be happy with a firmer bed. My wife, on the other hand, really needs a firmer bed!
Thanks everyone for all the info!
Hi CO_west,
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding when you pull the trigger … and good luck with your choice :).
Phoenix