That waking up several times the first night was my experience as well for my wife and I, though we did even more. Few points from others and from my experience.
Do NOT use any mattress pad or topper - foam confirms better without.
It will NOT be the same mattress next week - not even close as it warms and breaks in (but don’t worry, still very firm).
Walking on it helps speeds the process considerably. We have a split king - one mattress I walked on several times, the other has only been slept on. The one that has been walked on is noticeably different than the other, though suspect the other would eventually get to the same point thru just sleeping on it, but will take dramatically longer.
Right now, for me, even the “broken in” mattress still too firm or something. I continue to have that pain between my shoulders in the morning.
Thanks for taking the time to share your initial comments and feedback on your new Tuft & Needle … I appreciate it :).
As you’ve read … your experience with any new mattress can change to some degree over the first few weeks as the mattress breaks in and you get used to the feel of a new sleeping surface and I’m looking forward to any ongoing comments you have the chance to share as well.
Our current mattress is past its time to be replaced, so we’re going to give the T&N a try soon. My coworker tried the original model, but found it to be too firm, so he went through their simple return policy and was very satisfied with their service. I’ll report back my experience with the new model after we’ve been able to sleep on it for a while.
I have had my T&N 10" for three weeks. I sleep alone in the bed and noticed yesterday that the side I sleep on is already noticeably softer than it originally was. The side I have not slept on is still noticeably firmer as delivered. The conclusion I have drawn is that there is a break in period where the mattress gets softer with use. It’s not simply a matter of having the mattress expanded over time as only the side that has been used has softened up.
At this point the side I sleep on is still very firm and supportive, just noticeably softer when I sit on the edge than the side that I don’t sleep on is when I sit on that edge.
I am hopeful this is part of the engineering and design and not a sign that the mattress might began to sag over time. Time will tell.
Somewhere, I can’t find the post now, but Phoenix explained the way that polyfoam breaks in when it is new, and why it softens up in the first couple of weeks:
The way I understand it, the foam is created of “cells” and as you lie on it, the larger cells of foam break down into smaller cells, creating a softer feel. However, I think after the first few weeks, after the larger cells break down into smaller cells, the foam stabilizes and should keep that feel. Given the decent density that Tuft and Needle uses in their top layer of polyfoam, I understand sagging shouldn’t be a problem for several years. And if the mattress does sag, Tuft and Needle has a warranty: From the Tuft and Needle website:
What if the foam forms irregular indentations and is getting body impressions?
This is unlikely to happen for at least 7-10 years. We consider increased softness such as body impressions or permanent indentations to fall under our 10 year warranty. If you observe a visible indentation greater than 3/4 of an inch (about the length of your thumb, from tip to knuckle) please let our team know so that we can help you replace the mattress.
The first week we had the mattress, I walked all over the surface once or twice a day. I am quite sure that this helped speed the break in process.
We have rotated our mattress once- so the head portion of the bed is on the foot portion (not “flipped”, but rotated). I am hoping this will lengthen the time the mattress lasts. I don’t know how often to do this, but planning every 6-8 weeks.
There is a break in and adjustment period for a few weeks with any new mattress where the foams will lose any of their “false firmness” and the cover will loosen a bit and the materials will settle and this is completely normal (see post #3 here).
With foam materials what actually happens is that some of the thin “windows” in the foam cells break and open up which results in a slight loss of firmness and stiffness in the foam but once the break in process is complete after a few weeks then the firmness will stabilize and any further softening would be much more gradual over a much longer period of time.
The Tuft & Needle mattress uses high quality/density and durable materials (2.8 lb high performance polyfoam in the comfort layer and 1.8 lb polyfoam in the support core) so outside of the normal break in period for any foam material in the first few weeks you can expect that there won’t be any issues with premature foam softening or sagging over the course of the useful life of the mattress.
Wow, a ton of info here. I’m about an inch away from buying one of these things, but I’m super nervous. The casper seems great, and maybe a little more to my liking, but I think I can be happy with a firmer bed. My wife, on the other hand, really needs a firmer bed!
Hi, thank you all for maintaining this very helpful thread!
I’m sorry if I missed it, but I’m curious as to what happens with a T&N mattress after sleeping on it longer than 4-5 months every night. Does it develop any sagging?
Sagging after a few months is what’s been the continuous problem with mattresses for me. I tried innerspring, polyfoam and futon mattresses (granted, they might have been not the best quality, but some were definitely expensive). I’m about 180lb with hips area being heavier than shoulder area, and after a few months all mattresses I’ve tried so far started sagging in the middle (below the hips area), so those mattresses would no longer keep my body horizontally aligned during sleep. I’m very sensitive to such lack of support, my whole body starts aching and, of course, the good night’s sleep suffers greatly.
The thing is, I don’t know how to choose a mattress in a showroom by trying it out, as they may feel great at first, but start sagging later.
I’m thinking about giving the T&N10 a try and would appreciate any comments on the sagging issue.
The most common reason for premature foam softening, breakdown, and sagging is the use of lower quality materials in the comfort layers of a mattress and this is particularly common with major brand mattresses. The most reliable way to know whether a mattress has any lower quality materials or weak links in the design (regardless of the price or the brand) that can cause these types of issues is to make sure that you know the type and quality/durability of all the materials inside any mattress you are considering (see here).
The Tuft and Needle uses 2.8 lb high performance polyfoam in the comfort layers and 1.8 lb polyfoam in the support core and as you can see by comparing this to the foam quality guidelines here there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the design.
While there is no way to know for certain how long any mattress will last or maintain it’s comfort and/or support for any particular person or how long it will take before someone crosses the thresholds between sleeping well on a mattress to sleeping “OK” to tolerating a mattress to finally deciding to replace it because there are too many variables involved that are unique to each person … if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn’t close to the edge of being too soft when it is new and meets the minimum quality specs that are suggested in the guidelines then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with higher quality and more durable materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam (in the comfort layers especially) it would likely be in the higher end of the range or even longer.
It’s always more realistic to think of about 10 years as a maximum reasonable expectation for any mattress no matter what the quality or durability of the materials and then treat any additional time after that as “bonus time” because after about 10 years the limiting factor in the useful life of a mattress will often be the changing needs and preferences of the person sleeping on the mattress and even if a mattress is still in relatively good condition after a decade … a mattress that was suitable for someone 10 years earlier may not be the best “match” any longer.
I’m thinking about trying one of these. Having the same sagging as veien. Last mattress lasted only a few months. My mattress shopping experience has ended in frustration, not unlike the founders of T&N.
Phoenix, thank you for the response. Would still appreciate responses from long-time T&N owners on the sagging issue, even though these kind of experiences are highly individual, indeed.
What’s the rationale behind using more dense foam as a comfort layer and less dense as base layer? Isn’t it usually the other way around?
There aren’t any long term owners because the new design has only been available for a few months. You would need enough feedback after period of at least 5 years or more to identify a clear enough pattern to be able to use this type of information to assess whether a mattress has any real issues with premature foam sagging or softening over the longer term and feedback after only a few months will be more of an indication about the suitability of the choices that they made than it will about the durability of the mattress.
It’s normal for the comfort layers to be softer than the support layers but firmness/softness and density have nothing to do with each other. Any density of foam can be made in a very wide range of firmness levels. Density is the most important factor in the durability of a foam. There is more about the new Tuft & Needle design in posts #2 and #6 here.
Just placed my order. The way you get a Mattress Underground discount is by contacting them after placing the order and letting them know - the discount is really more like a rebate. For the 10 inch king, the rebate was nearly $50. Living in Colorado, the folks at T&N told me I can probably expect the mattress in about 5 business days.
I’ll be sure to give my initial thoughts as well as longer term. Options for in-store shopping are limited in western Colorado, and I wasn’t very satisfied with the options in my price range at Denver Mattress Company or any of the handful or mattress stores in town. Online shopping is a little bit scary, but I’m thinking it might be the best option for someone who doesn’t live in a big city.
As you know you certainly made a good quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it to see if it was a suitable choice for you in terms of PPP as well.
The good news of course is that they have a great return policy so there is little risk in trying it to see how well you sleep on it.
Just a reminder to people ordering a new Tuft and Needle-
If you’ve read much of Mattress Underground, you will know that Phoenix says it can take a few weeks for a new mattress to “break in” and for your body to adjust to the new surface.
I have found this to be absolutely true with our Tuft and Needle ordered in December…
The mattress you receive on day 1 will not feel like the same mattress after a couple of weeks as the foam softens up and your body adjusts…
Hope everyone enjoys their new mattress as much as I do mine!
After a lot of research we have settled on the Tuft and Needle based mainly on this thread. It hits most of me and the wifes combined PPP. If it doesnt work then we are thinking of going with the Casper, but the T&N is just a great deal and based on a lot of reading it doesnt sacrifice materials.
One question though is what sort of pillows is everyone using? Typically I sleep with 2 or 3 pillows on my innerspring with crazy sag.
My neck and shoulders used to often be sore or stiff from sleeping. Now I use the Therapeutica Pillow Average Adult size and I no longer have neck and shoulder issues. The pillow will seem uncomfortable at first, especially if you’re already having issues, but now I don’t want to sleep without it. I am a side sleeper and it supports my head while relieving pressure off of my shoulder. If you don’t expect miracles overnight and are willing to give it a chance then I highly recommend trying this specific pillow (but sized to your needs.)
