Hi CO_west,
I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding when you pull the trigger … and good luck with your choice :).
Phoenix
Hi, thank you all for maintaining this very helpful thread!
I’m sorry if I missed it, but I’m curious as to what happens with a T&N mattress after sleeping on it longer than 4-5 months every night. Does it develop any sagging?
Sagging after a few months is what’s been the continuous problem with mattresses for me. I tried innerspring, polyfoam and futon mattresses (granted, they might have been not the best quality, but some were definitely expensive). I’m about 180lb with hips area being heavier than shoulder area, and after a few months all mattresses I’ve tried so far started sagging in the middle (below the hips area), so those mattresses would no longer keep my body horizontally aligned during sleep. I’m very sensitive to such lack of support, my whole body starts aching and, of course, the good night’s sleep suffers greatly.
The thing is, I don’t know how to choose a mattress in a showroom by trying it out, as they may feel great at first, but start sagging later.
I’m thinking about giving the T&N10 a try and would appreciate any comments on the sagging issue.
Hi veien,
The most common reason for premature foam softening, breakdown, and sagging is the use of lower quality materials in the comfort layers of a mattress and this is particularly common with major brand mattresses. The most reliable way to know whether a mattress has any lower quality materials or weak links in the design (regardless of the price or the brand) that can cause these types of issues is to make sure that you know the type and quality/durability of all the materials inside any mattress you are considering (see here).
The Tuft and Needle uses 2.8 lb high performance polyfoam in the comfort layers and 1.8 lb polyfoam in the support core and as you can see by comparing this to the foam quality guidelines here there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the design.
While there is no way to know for certain how long any mattress will last or maintain it’s comfort and/or support for any particular person or how long it will take before someone crosses the thresholds between sleeping well on a mattress to sleeping “OK” to tolerating a mattress to finally deciding to replace it because there are too many variables involved that are unique to each person … if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn’t close to the edge of being too soft when it is new and meets the minimum quality specs that are suggested in the guidelines then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with higher quality and more durable materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam (in the comfort layers especially) it would likely be in the higher end of the range or even longer.
It’s always more realistic to think of about 10 years as a maximum reasonable expectation for any mattress no matter what the quality or durability of the materials and then treat any additional time after that as “bonus time” because after about 10 years the limiting factor in the useful life of a mattress will often be the changing needs and preferences of the person sleeping on the mattress and even if a mattress is still in relatively good condition after a decade … a mattress that was suitable for someone 10 years earlier may not be the best “match” any longer.
Phoenix
I’m thinking about trying one of these. Having the same sagging as veien. Last mattress lasted only a few months. My mattress shopping experience has ended in frustration, not unlike the founders of T&N.
Not really any risk in trying one that I can see.
Phoenix, thank you for the response. Would still appreciate responses from long-time T&N owners on the sagging issue, even though these kind of experiences are highly individual, indeed.
What’s the rationale behind using more dense foam as a comfort layer and less dense as base layer? Isn’t it usually the other way around?
Hi veien,
There aren’t any long term owners because the new design has only been available for a few months. You would need enough feedback after period of at least 5 years or more to identify a clear enough pattern to be able to use this type of information to assess whether a mattress has any real issues with premature foam sagging or softening over the longer term and feedback after only a few months will be more of an indication about the suitability of the choices that they made than it will about the durability of the mattress.
It’s normal for the comfort layers to be softer than the support layers but firmness/softness and density have nothing to do with each other. Any density of foam can be made in a very wide range of firmness levels. Density is the most important factor in the durability of a foam. There is more about the new Tuft & Needle design in posts #2 and #6 here.
Phoenix
Just placed my order. The way you get a Mattress Underground discount is by contacting them after placing the order and letting them know - the discount is really more like a rebate. For the 10 inch king, the rebate was nearly $50. Living in Colorado, the folks at T&N told me I can probably expect the mattress in about 5 business days.
I’ll be sure to give my initial thoughts as well as longer term. Options for in-store shopping are limited in western Colorado, and I wasn’t very satisfied with the options in my price range at Denver Mattress Company or any of the handful or mattress stores in town. Online shopping is a little bit scary, but I’m thinking it might be the best option for someone who doesn’t live in a big city.
Hi CO_west,
Congratulations on your new mattress 
As you know you certainly made a good quality/value choice and I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it to see if it was a suitable choice for you in terms of PPP as well.
The good news of course is that they have a great return policy so there is little risk in trying it to see how well you sleep on it.
Phoenix
Just ordered mine- Thanks to this forum for the reviews.
Hi mikew,
Congratulations on your new mattress as well
I’m also looking forward to your comments and feedback once you’ve had the chance to sleep on it.
Phoenix
Just a reminder to people ordering a new Tuft and Needle-
If you’ve read much of Mattress Underground, you will know that Phoenix says it can take a few weeks for a new mattress to “break in” and for your body to adjust to the new surface.
I have found this to be absolutely true with our Tuft and Needle ordered in December…
The mattress you receive on day 1 will not feel like the same mattress after a couple of weeks as the foam softens up and your body adjusts…
Hope everyone enjoys their new mattress as much as I do mine!
After a lot of research we have settled on the Tuft and Needle based mainly on this thread. It hits most of me and the wifes combined PPP. If it doesnt work then we are thinking of going with the Casper, but the T&N is just a great deal and based on a lot of reading it doesnt sacrifice materials.
One question though is what sort of pillows is everyone using? Typically I sleep with 2 or 3 pillows on my innerspring with crazy sag.
Thanks all!
My neck and shoulders used to often be sore or stiff from sleeping. Now I use the Therapeutica Pillow Average Adult size and I no longer have neck and shoulder issues. The pillow will seem uncomfortable at first, especially if you’re already having issues, but now I don’t want to sleep without it. I am a side sleeper and it supports my head while relieving pressure off of my shoulder. If you don’t expect miracles overnight and are willing to give it a chance then I highly recommend trying this specific pillow (but sized to your needs.)
Hi Altimax98,
Congratulations on your new mattress
I hope you also have the chance to share you comments after you receive it.
You will probably get as many answers to this as there are people because there are so many different pillow preferences but there is more information about pillows that may be helpful in the pillow topic here.
Phoenix
Just placed my order as well! Can’t wait!
Hi Turkish_Honey,
Congratulations on your new mattress … and as always I’m looking forward to your comments and feedback when you receive it as well
Phoenix
Here’s a little initial feedback about out T&N:
Our T&N 10 in. arrived on 2/23, and we’ve slept on it for only 5 nights. As many others have written, it’s definitely a firm mattress, but it’s not like sleeping on the floor. When I feel down the sides of my body, I definitely can tell that the mattress is contouring to my body and I’m not “lying on top of the mattress” like I would on the floor. All of our previous mattresses have been traditional inner spring mattresses, so, of course, the T&N is quite different. There isn’t any motion transfer and it feels more “solid” when getting in and our of bed.
It’s been only 5 nights, but I am definitely waking more time during the night than with our previous inner spring mattress. I am a back and side sleeper. When I’m on my side, I find that I’m bothered by ‘pressure’ in my hip and then need to move to my back. When I’m on my back, I haven’t identified any particular pressure point, but I’m not staying on my back for the entire night. I may be moving to my side again because of habit - who knows.
As for how I feel when I awaken, I have a slight achy feeling in my lower back. But… Once I’m up, the ache disappears within 10-15 minutes. One big positive thing is that my neck and shoulders don’t hurt at all. I tried a memory foam mattress for a few weeks and it killed my neck. With the T&N, I’m having no neck or shoulder pain. Yay!
It seems like the T&N is working for me in terms of posture, but I’m still unsure about pressure and preference. I like the mattress; It’s fine. Really, it’s fine ;). But I guess I just don’t love it. My spouse has no complaints about the T&N, but he’s never complained about any mattress unless it is just unbelievably, super soft. I know I need to adjust to the stillness of a foam mattress, but I think waking up fewer times to change positions would tip the scales for me.
Even though my neck and shoulder pain is gone, I still find myself wondering about the Casper. I will, of course, continue to sleep on it for a few more weeks and see how my body adjusts to the new sleeping surface. But I hate that I’m looking at other mattresses and find myself wondering, “what about that one?”
Watson4321-
We got our Tuft and Needle 10" in December. If you read back in my previous posts, you will see that I went to a sort of unsure first week, getting better the second and third week, then by the 5th week, I was absolutely in love with the mattress.
The mattress as you feel it now, will not feel the same in another 10 days. The top will continue to break in, that takes about 2 weeks at least. Your body is adjusting too- if you’ve been on innersprings the past several years, your body needs time to adjust.
If you want to help break in the mattress faster, walk over the top of the surface a couple of times a day- this will help “break in” the foam faster. I walked on the top of our mattress once or twice a day for the first week to help speed up the new foam break up into a slightly softer surface.
I was waking up several times a night the first week, I think even into the second week too. Now I sleep like a log through the night.
Give it a little more time, your experience on the mattress won’t be the same in 10 days, I can say that with certainty. If after another two weeks you still have the hip pain, then the mattress may not be for you, but if it’s pressure point pain, the foam is going to soften up just a little bit over the next week, and that may greatly improve the hip discomfort.
Your neck pain may very well have been a pillow issue. If you are using the same pillow now as on the memory foam mattress, the pillow might be just more suited to the Tuft and Needle. I had to switch to a new pillow on the Tuft and Needle because I was getting pain between the scapula and neck pain. It went away after a week after switching to a new pillow.
Be patient…
And PS- at least in my case, I had a lot of pressure point pain on the Casper, and have none on the Tuft and Needle. I know all of us are different, but don’t assume that the Casper is going to be “the one”- the grass is always greener.
I think what you are experiencing on the Tuft and Needle isn’t too much different than what I experienced. Give it time, it took 3 weeks to actually “like” the mattress, and it took me 5 weeks to “love” the mattress. If after a month it’s still causing pain though, then it’s not the best mattress for you…
Hi Watson123,
As you know one of the attractions of the “one choice fits all” style of mattresses is that they simplify the buying and decision making process which can be very attractive to some people and may be one of the most important parts of their “personal value equation”. With any retailer or manufacturer that only offers a single mattress though you will find that they will be the “best” match for a relatively small percentage of the population, a “good” match for a larger percentage, an “OK” match for a larger percentage yet, and for those that it isn’t a “good enough” match … they have a great return policy that lets you start all over again with choosing another mattress with little risk outside of the time you spent trying the mattress or returning it.
As Sheep123 mentioned you will notice changes over the course of the first few weeks as your mattress “breaks in” and you go through the adjustment process for any new sleeping surface and there are some suggestions in post #2 here that may be helpful as well (some of which sheep123 also mentioned) but if you give it a few weeks and your Tuft & Needle mattress (or any “one choice fits all” mattress) just isn’t turning out to be as suitable a choice as you hoped for in terms of PPP then you have the benefit of a great return policy that lets you “try again” with little risk.
I’m looking forward to seeing how things progress for you over the course of the next few weeks.
Phoenix
What an awesome amount of info on this site (and thread), so glad I found it before making a purchase. After learning of T&N it looks like that will be my first choice into a foam mattress, especially with their return policy.
One question, will ordering the 10 through their website or Amazon result in the “new” model being shipped?
Many thanks