The Best Foundations or Base for a Latex or All Foam Mattress

Hi HoosierDaddy,

That’s very strange. I just called them and the phone is still active (although they wereclosed) so I’ll try to call them during business hours to see what happened to their website. Perhaps their registration just ran out. In any case I’ll ost here (and edit the foundation thread if necessary) when I find out anything.

This is actually a new listing on their site because they used to have the more traditional KD foundations (without the metal frame) and I guess they haven’t yet changed the video.

They do come in both low profile (5") and regular profile (10").

These two are the only two low profile KD foundations that I was able to find.

I’m curious what the lower quality issues were that you noticed on the video.

Many of the KD foundations that you see around the web (and many other foundations as well) are made by the same manufacturer (CPS wood products).

Phoenix

Thanks for calling Palmetto. I didn’t know any phone number to try.

Thanks for mentioning CPS. I wondered who actually made some of these. Many retailers sell an identical (based on specs and pictures) foundation under various names.

Below are a few of the pictures that bothered me on USBoxSpring’s site. If you click on their assembly link you will see its broken, but if you just type it in manually (http://www.usboxspring.com/assembly.htm) you will get there.

Notice the corners are not as well braced (nor smoothed) and the pieces just butt together rather than any dovetail or dado. The video on that page shows it even better. I understand they don’t sell these anymore but since it was an inferior (IMO) wood foundation, I worry they may have the same target audience for other products.

Hi HoosierDaddy,

I’ve been doing some research into some of the KD foundations lately to find out the size of the gaps (nobody seemed to know or at least they weren’t listed) and it turns out that most of them have gaps between the slats that are a little over 4" and have 12 slats).

The new versions of the Nature’s Sleep have gaps that are just over 3" (I had someone actually measure them). I thought they may be a little less because they have 14 slats but the slats are only 2.5" wide.

I’m not sure how wide the gaps were between the slats for the old versions at US Boxsprings that are in the video but it seems that they may have been in the range of 3" and had 14 slats. I can see what you mean by the rough looking lumber but based on feedback from other KD foundations some of them at least also aren’t the smoothest finish or the highest quality wood. It’s probably a moot point though because they’ve been replaced with the metal ones. The person who told me about the new metal ones is an industry old timer that I trust and he was very familiar with them. He was quite impressed with them and told me about them so I could include them on the site because inexpensive slatted KD foundations that work well for all latex mattresses aren’t so easy to find). They also have the added advantage of having the flexible slats that can be used for fine tuning if necessary by removing some of the non flexing slats in between them.

The reason I wanted to find out the gap sizes for sure is because for an all latex mattress the gaps should be around 3" or less while for a mattress that has a polyurethane base the wider gaps would be fine.

Phoenix

The width of the gaps and slats are among the questions I’m waiting to hear back from them on. I’ll post what they say.

For sure the pictures of their metal foundation are more impressive than the ones of the wood one they used to sell.

I’d like to throw out another foundation that I considered.

Its sold (made?) by Tempur-Pedic: http://www.tempurpedic.com/Foundations/Low-Split-CA-King-Ecru-Foundation-116_381-opt.aspx?

Its apparently a solid box (MDF) with a cover. Its available in two colors and in two heights.

I decided against this because I wanted some ventilation for the bottom of the foam mattress and because I stumbled on a few complaints of squeaking in 3rd party reviews. Plus I always dislike any product that has price controls and these definitely do. They are the exact same price everywhere they are sold and its not a bargain price considering what they are.

Hi HoosierDaddy,

While there is no doubt that the Tempurpedic foundation is strong … I would also tend to lean towards a slatted or grid type foundation that allowed for more ventilation whenever that was possible. While in some cases (such as choosing an adjustable bed or when a specific foundation is part of a warranty) … a solid surface foundation may end up as the final choice … at least the tradeoff would be for a good reason.

While there are many that would argue with this and who believe that a solid foundation is “better” … I am of the view that when possible the choice for better ventilation is a more desirable choice because it can improve humidity control and temperature regulation and it can also create a better microclimate which can be more effective in reducing the odds of “attracting” unwanted visitors such as mold, mildew, and dust mite populations by using non chemical methods. If the slatted foundation is well built and has enough slats then the support of the foundation doesn’t have to be compromised by the choice of slats. While a solid surface foundation may still have only low odds of these types of issues in most cases (depending on the environment and all the other variables involved) … my preference would still be towards a more ventilating support system.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

What is your opinion of the King Size Ultimate Dreams Latex mattress on the Sultan Laxeby from Ikea with one of their beds? Is this combination something that will last?

Also I am debating the 3 different king latex mattresses that Ultimate Dreams offers. Can you give your opinion on the material differences between the Ultra Plush, Natural Latex, and Eurotop? I’m 6’1" 220lbs and prefer probably a 7, but have concerns with “bottoming out” on the 3" latex top. Is this an unfounded concern?

Thanks! This site has been so helpful in making this decision!

Hi chaoticelf13,

Bottoming out is actually a function of the entire mattress not one particular layer and only happens when the entire mattress has compressed to its maximum which won’t happen with any of their mattresses. The comfort layers of these mattresses are 4.5" (the quilting foam and the latex) and the latex can be chosen for firmness level so the goal is to “go through” softer comfort layers just enough so that the transition into the firmer support layers is “just right” without the firmness of the lower layers coming through too much for some body types or the comfort layers themselves being too firm for comfort/pressure relief for others. They are very good at helping you choose.

The Ultra Plush and the Eurotop use the same materials (your choice of firmness level of blended Talalay latex) with 1.5" of quilting foam over it and a high quality polyfoam base. The extra benefits of the Eurotop are listed in post #2 here.

The Natural latex model uses 100% natural Dunlop latex with wool in the quilting (which is a more costly component which adds to the ventilation, moisture regulation, and temperature control of the mattress as well as being used for the fire barrier)

You can read about some of the differences between Dunlop and Talalay in this article and post #6 here.

All of the Dreamfoam options are very good quality and value but of course each offers different options that may be more important to some and less to others.

The Sultan Laxeby is also good value IMO for those who are looking for a tension adjustable flexible slat base.

As far as the Ikea beds go I don’t really know their quality/value or their strength and I haven’t researched the materials (many of them seem to use either particle board or MDF which is stronger) At least they are very inexpensive. I would guess that they would at least be strong enough to hold the mattress and the people on it in most cases as long as the slat system was appropriate to the mattress (which the Laxeby is if you prefer a tension adjustable version over a firm slatted non flexible base).

You may want to try the mattress on a firm non flexing base (or even temporarily on the floor) before deciding on whether you would need or would even want the flexible slats because they may work either for or against you. In most cases foam mattresses (except fot those that are thinner) tend to do best on rigid non flexing slats although in some cases the tension adjustable features of the Laxeby may come in handy for fine tuning. The flexible slats would have much less effect on a thicker mattress.

Phoenix

Thank you so much for all your information that you’re giving here Phoenix this is a really great site unlearning so much and I narrowed down my decision and I have hopefully found my dream bed.

Hi Bonnie98368,

I’m looking forward to finding out what your “dream bed” turns out to be :slight_smile:

Phoenix

Hello, I’m new to the Mattress Forum! I’ve been looking at latex mattresses seriously for a couple months now and your wonderful site has raised as many questions as it has answered (which I think is a good thing!).

I’m planning to go shopping to look in person at some 100% natural latex mattresses in Atlanta in the next few weeks. My biggest issue is that the price of the mattress itself is kind of a stretch financially and looking at adding another $300 for a foundation nearly gave me a stroke.

Is it possible to use the IKEA Sultan Laxeby directly on the floor with the mattress on top or do I need it to sit on a solid platform? I imagine it’s a terrible idea to just put the mattress directly on the carpeted floor. I have a decent boxspring right now, but it’s a full and I’m buying a queen. My current mattress set sits on an adjustable size frame almost identical to this: http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/knickerbocker-ultra-premium-6-leg-frame-universal?ID=229488&cm_mmc=Google_Pla-_-PLAover25-_-45056568995-_-mkwid_8gI0xNKY&gclid=CMWc74XZ-rMCFQixnQod0UQAZg

Thank you!

Hi DrButterscotch,

There would be no harm in terms of comfort and support (the floor is a solid non flexing surface which is what a latex mattress does best with) but it would reduce the airflow and ventilation of the mattress and it may also be risky in terms of mold and mildew, soiling and hygiene of the mattress (close to the floor on carpet is dustier) and other unwanted “visitors”. Of course it also wouldn’t be the ideal height above the floor for most people. This first post in this thread has some lower cost options than $300 which may be better (such as some of the grid type foundations which don’t require a metal frame). Generally a foundation that is either slatted or a metal grid is best of all for a latex mattress rather than a solid surface which restricts airflow.

Just in case you haven’t seen this … post #2 here has some of the better options in the Atlanta area that I’m aware of.

Phoenix

Hello. I recently purchased a natural talalay 6" all latex mattress in firm and wanted to try it on the floor before deciding on a foundation. After one night, there’s no doubt that it’s definitely going to be too firm for a solid foundation, so now I’m trying to decide between a box spring and a flexible slatted foundation. I tried solid latex over a box spring at Escondido Mattress and it felt wonderful! I didn’t purchase that particular sleep system because it couldn’t be made vegan and because I’ve read that a box spring isn’t ideal for latex life and performance. It also seems to defeat the purpose of solid latex because I would think that it would add pressure points. So, I’m guessing that the flexible slatted foundation may be an option that’s closer to the ideal foundation for latex but I’m hoping that someone can tell me if they feel at all similar to a box spring. I’m defninitely open to the box spring idea if I’m wrong in my thinking about them. My only other concern at that point would be that my mattress is really just latex inside a zipper cover, so there would be fairly direct contact between the latex and the springs. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks so much for this wonderful resource!!!

Hi Debbielc21,

This would depend a lot on knowing more information about you (height, weight, sleeping position, preferences), more about the different firmness levels of the latex mattress at Escondido and the one you have, and a more complete description of the “symptoms” you are experiencing, where they are, and the best you can do to “quantify” or describe how much more softness or give you need under your mattress (this is difficult because it is so subjective).

There are also two different design theories at work here. Some manufacturers (such as Escondido Mattress Factory ) will use a thinner mattress and put it on a flexing foundation to provide any extra “give” you may need under your pressure points (which would be reduced just like you experienced at Escondido rather than increase them). This results on a firmer sleeping surface that 'bends" more into the box spring under the thinner mattress (typically 6"). Original Mattress Factory is another manufacturer that uses “active” box springs under their mattresses (and in their case they use it under all their mattresses even the thicker ones).

The other design theory is using a few inches of softer latex (or even other materials) as a separate comfort layer in the mattress. This would provide a softer surface that would tend to be more pressure relieving and have a softer surface feel and you would sink more into the material itself. This is by far a more common approach. Which is “better” depends on your preferences because they have a different feel. The active box spring wouldn’t lower the durability of the latex but it would change the feel and performance of the mattress (which of course is the goal).

A flexible slatted foundation would be similar to a boxspring in its performance and would provide more give under your thinner mattress. Again though … how well this would work would depend on the firmness of the latex (if it was too firm the box springs or flexible slats may not be enough). Some flexible slat systems can even be adjusted for specific parts of the body (such as making it softer under the shoulders or hips).

So the first step is deciding on which approach you prefer (firmer surface with box springs or flexible slatted foundation or a softer topper) and then with more information deciding on which foundation or topper would do the best job for you and best match your preferences.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix. Thanks so much for your response. The different options make a lot more sense now. My specs: I’m 5’1" and 110 pounds and I tend to sleep on my side. I’m not sure about the ILD on my mattress or the one that I tried at Escondido but they’re both firm. Mine is the 100% natural talalay from FoamOrder.com (they say they special order their talalay but didn’t seem to want to say where from and I didn’t push it) and the salesman at Escondido told me that they mostly use Sleep Comp natural talalay. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to layer different firmnesses because of the special order rules, so I chose firm vs. medium because I generally like a firmer mattress and don’t like the sinking in feeling. I’m hoping that I didn’t make a mistake because with it on the floor, there doesn’t seem to be any give at all. The pressure on my shoulders is even making my arms fall asleep and I’m waking up with a bit of a stiff back. Plus, it’s difficult to get in a comfortable position to fall asleep. I’d say it feels only slightly softer than actually sleeping on the floor.

After reading what you wrote about the different theories behind comfort options, I think I’m probably most interested in the different foundation types; mostly because I did like the way the Escondido Mattress Factory system felt and because I need a foundation anyway. Adding a topper would not be something I could do right away for cost reasons but I’m open to it down the road if it seems to be the best solution. If I understood you correctly, both box springs and flexible slatted foundations have a similar feel? If this is the case, I guess I should just go with the less expensive of the two? If not, cost will not be the deciding factor because I want to get whatever will be best, since I plan to keep it for a long time. My only other considerations will be adding some height since the mattress is only 6" and it will need to work on a metal bed frame that has a standard Ikea wood slat removable base, although I wouldn’t mind switching the slats out if necessary.

On a side note, are you familiar with a product called FireGard (http://www.firegard.com/)? My latex was put inside this FireGard “sock” under the zipper cover in order to be fire compliant. The salesman wouldn’t come right out and say whether it was made of anything toxic, just that it is a fire resistant fiber and that it wasn’t dipped in fire retardant chemicals. I’m asking because it can be easily cut off if it is toxic but if not, I feel like I might as well leave it. I found it difficult to get a clear idea of what it really is when I looked at their website.

I look forward to any advice that you may have. Thanks again for your help and your awesome website. Not sure what I would have ended up with without it :slight_smile:

Hi Debbilc21,

It’s always a good idea to talk with the manufacturer of your mattress about any fine tuning you may want to do. This is particularly true if they are knowledgeable which Alan at foam order certainly is. They would have good experience in fine tuning their specific mattresses after a sale based on the feedback of their customers.

I don’t have a reference point of the specifics of your mattress or the Escondido mattress or box spring you liked so it’s not really possible for me to make a specific suggestions because your mattress may be different from the Escondido mattress and you may not be able to find the boxspring they used. While a flexible slat system will provide some extra give under your mattress … it may not be the same as the Escondido combination.

My tendency though would be towards the topper because you may not be able to find the combination that matched the Escondido mattress and box spring and the cost of most flexible foundations or adjustable slatted foundations would not be much different from a firm foundation and a topper and this would be much easier to estimate more accurately. This is also because your mattress may still be too firm even with a flexible foundation or box spring.

A good general suggestion for a topper that would apply to many people with a firm 6" latex mattress would be about 2-3" of softer latex. Your weight may do well with about 19 ILD and I would probably tend towards 2" because of your preference for a firmer mattress.

If you do decide on a flexible slat base or tension adjustable base … there are some sources of tension adjustable slatted foundations in the foundation thread here. This one may be a good choice because it is fairly low cost and can be used as a flexible slatted base under certain parts of the body but can also be used a a solid base if that doesn’t work for you. The Idea options are also low cost but they need a base to go under them (such as an Ikea bed).

I don’t have any specific information outside of what is on the website no.

Phoenix

Thank you!

Great information, thanks for providing this.

Hi Phoenix. I’m going with your suggestion of the 2" 19 ILD topper. Unfortunately, I’m having a hard time finding that ILD in a 100% natural Talalay. It seems that Latex International only goes down to 22 (at least that’s what one retailer told me). Are there specific suppliers/online retailers that you can point me towards? Thanks.
-Debbie

Hi Debbielc21,

19 ILD is one of the ILD ratings for Latex Internationals blended Talalay. Their 100% natural Talalay is rated on a different scale from N1 to N5 and each rating could be a range of ILD’s. Most suppliers don’t carry the N1 and their softest version is the N2 which is in the “range” of 22 ILD.

If you are committed to 100% natural Talalay … then Sleep Like a Bear has all the products and ILD’s that are made by Latex International in a range of thicknesses including the N1 even though they are a little more expensive than some other suppliers. As you can see here, the N1 is between 14 and 19.99 ILD and the N2 is between 20 and 24.99 ILD (with a nominal ILD of 22).

Several of the suppliers listed in post #4 here carry 100% natural Talalay made by both Radium and LI (including SleepEz and Mattresses.net) and it may be worth calling them to find out the softest version they have because they often have layers that aren’t listed on their site although I don’t think they carry the softest 100% natural Talalay layers because of potential durability issues with softer ILD’s in 100% natural Talalay.

Phoenix

Thank you! That would have taken me a month to figure out on my own :slight_smile: