Hi Phoenix,
Here’s my inspiration for a bed (it’s in the UK…).
The last photo is actually a video.
ADF
Hi ADF,
Good find! You are certainly doing good research … across the world! :cheer:
Thanks for sharing the UK Harlow upholstered bed frame “inspiration”. I am including the image rather than the link of the mattress for those that are interested in under bed storage solution and I will be moving this post to its own thread so that it is easier to find. I am sure that many DIYers would follow this with great interest especially if you’d have some time to document this and provide some pictlures.
On Bensons & Beds site, there’s also a more detailed assembly video here to better see its components. They don’t list the weight capacity but it seems like a good design with its electric side lift. The image and their site description show clearly what you were trying to accomplish with your “system”
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https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/66/harlow-bed-frame-lifestyle.jpg[/center]
I hope you can follow up on this on our Mattress Forum.
Thanks again for taking the time to share and I’m looking forward to your next update.
Phoenix
[color=black]I’m shopping for a new latex mattress for the first time since 2001.
Here at TMU and at European Sleepworks in Berkeley, I learned that there are two problems with my existing Queen size bed frame (also purchased in 2001 - see photo).
- It needs a center support. Per Sleepworks’ recommenation, I bought a 1x4 fir board and attached three legs made of 2 x 3 fir.
After purchasing the frame in 2001, I called the manufacturer, Vermont Tubbs. The guy at the factory said that a center support was not necessary, but could be easily added later. He was wrong. (I’m curious how they implemented a center support, but sadly they went out of business in 2003, after more than 170 years.)
- The slats are too far apart - about 4 to 4 1/2".
Surprisingly, the slats are, like the frame, solid oak. For consistency, I bought an oak board, had it cut into six more slats the same size as the existing ones (60 1/4" x 2 1/8" x 3/4"), and sanded them.
With all 18 slats evenly spaced at 3", this will provide 50 percent coverage (which was recommended by the Foam Store of Marin).
But here’s the [possible] problem: After 18 years of use without a center support, the old slats have bowed, as shown in the attached photos.
In “Slats 1”, I pushed them together at the center. In “Slats 2”, I pushed them together at the left end. Clearly, some are much more bowed than others.
I actually noticed this a week or so ago and flipped them over. I noticed the difference immediately when I slept - the mattress sagged less.
A few days later, I added the center support. Since then, I’ve been waking up with a sore back, and it’s clear that the mattress needs to be replaced now (or 3-5 years ago :-)).
My theory is that when I flipped the slats, my body weight (I’m 195 lbs, 5’11") not only counteracted the upward bowing, but maybe even bowed them slightly downward again. To some degree, this masked the fact that the mattress (an old Ikea all-latex mattress, one layer, 5 or 6 inches thick) is worn out (compacted).
Adding the center support prevents the downward bowing, making it more obvious that the mattress is completely shot.
So I’m wondering:
Will the bowing be an issue with a new mattress (which I expect will be 9" of latex)?
Should I put the most-bent slats in a particular location (like in the middle or the ends)?
I could certainly buy a new set of slats if necessary, but I hope to use what I have.
EDIT: After posting this, I thought of a crude way to asses the stiffness of the slats. I used a 31-lb. PA speaker (I’m a musician) to hold down one end of the slat and measured how high the other end was above the floor. The most bent one I’ve measured so far is 1.5"
Then I placed two 1-gallon jugs of water (about 16 lbs total) on the raised end. That brought it down to the floor. I’m guessing that between a latex mattress and my body weight, I have nothing to worry about.
But I’d still love to hear any expert opinions.
By the way, the slats at either end are prevented from sliding towards the center by dowel stops set into the rail (visible in the photo if you look closely). The center slat is secured by a long rivet that you drop through a hole in the slat into a hole in the rail. I mention this because when I explained it to a salesman, he said he hadn’t seen this type of design before and thought it was clever.
Thanks!
Bob
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Hi bobkbed,
thinking that I am qualified to give input on this since our bed design involves slats and latex, I have a few comments and these come from the almost 40 years of experience that we have collected and inherited.
I think you will have to get extremely lucky to design a proper slat foundations (where the slats serve as more than simply a solid base foundation, since you are talking about bowed slats and where to best put them). The reason I say this is that once upon a time a company (backed with a lot of money) tried to copy a system similar to ours but without any of the background knowledge and produced a sub-par bed to say the least.
The are a few issues that come up - some of them are choosing the right type of wood with the right properties in terms of stability/bending and bowing/elasticity/etc., or also how the wood and latex work together.
In any case with your centre support (which you rightly installed and 3 legs under that are more than sufficient as well) the slats will most likely simply flatten and lay there fairly straight (that is if you have a queen bed or smaller, king may still give you issues with the slat bending down below you)
All that to say here is what I suggest if you are thinking about a DIY option. Space the slats as closely as possible leaving very little space between them, so that some air can come through. Only providing 50% coverage is not enough and will hurt your latex mattress in the long run, because too much of it will push through the cracks between the slats.
Otherwise you can also buy a solid sheet of wood/plywood/etc., cut it to fit your frame and simply drill a few holes in it to help the mattress breathe.
I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have more questions.
Best Regards,
Thanks very much for the answer, CBH!
One more thing: After posting, I discovered that I mis-measured the original slats. They’re 7/8" thick, not 3/4" (there are 13 of them). The six new slats are slightly under 3/4" (maybe 11/16"). I don’t imagine this matters, but please let me know your thoughts. For now, I’m putting those under the foot of the bed.
EDIT: How about shims to raise the thinner slats?
I’ll also look into getting more than 50% coverage. Adding a few more slats would be most cost-effective (I’m trying to watch my budget), but I could potentially buy a new set (not hardwood!).
Good to know that plywood (with holes) is an option, but I’d prefer the air circulation provided by slats.
Thanks again!
Bob
Hi Bobkded,
I only have 3 months experience with 9" 100% latex and about 6 months extra research.
I absolutely support the answer before me!
You must have a platform, preferably with slats. Plywood slab/s is a solution too, but you’ll have to drill many big holes.
Latex mattress + plywood = extremely heavy!!! The center support with 3-4 legs is a MUST.
You should know that home depot sells slats. So does IKEA. Slats must be VERY strong, yet flexible. I think yours have lost its strength and it would be a matter of undefined time till it bows the other way.
If home depot’s slats spacing is to much, set them closer and attach with either Velcro or double sided tape to the frane, ensuring no skewing. If it creates space at the end (mostly king beds), buy 1-2 pcs of ¾x3 to complete.
Again, my Eastern king is ~200 lbs. It is HEAVY and yet, the best I’ve ever slept on!
Regarding how much surface area of a latex mattress is supported by slats:
Foamorder.com (Foam Store of Marin) said it should be at least 50 percent
CBH said it should be MORE than 50 percent, but didn’t specify a minimum.
European Sleepworks said percentage doesn’t matter as long as slats are 2.5 - 3.5" apart.
With my four new slats (34" total), the spacing is now 2.5", but the slats are only 2 - 2 1/8" wide. So coverage is 42 percent.
These are all reputable sources, so I’m confused.
Any other manufacturers want to chime in here?
Hi bobkbed,
maybe my last message wasn’t clear enough. We recommend that you leave almost no space between your slats (don’t have more than a fingers width so that there is a bit of ventilation but not enough space for your mattress to squeeze into the gaps), since there is no reason to worry about slat spacing in your case. Your slats are not used to work dynamically with your mattress but rather their purpose is to form a solid foundation.
I hope this helps.
Thanks, CBH. I understand your recommendation.
I asked for more opinions - sort of a mini-poll - because I got three very-different answers from three reputable sources! 
(The other two aren’t TMU members, but are recommended by Phoenix.)
Hi bobkbed.
Thanks for the informative post about your slat foundation without center support, etc. You must be really quite handy and creative to rebuild/improve this unit.
As you already suspect, I think with the right 9" of latex, and your center support, you are not going to feel the effects of the bowed slats anywhere close to your old IKEA mattress which was probably 5.6 inches originally (Ikea used to purchase boatloads of 14cm cores from Latexco and Sapsa in Europe.)
As fas as the placement of the “more bowed slats”, my instinct says it won’t make much difference in terms of sleeper support. The standard wooden 1 x 3" slats with gaps and 2. 5" apart (no more than 3") are about 50% of the total support surface area. While it probably wouldn’t be an issue in the shorter term … the lower surface area in contact with the mattress would result in a greater risk that the latex would sag into the gaps in between the slats over the longer term although it’s not really possible to quantify the higher risk except to say it would be “less supportive” for the latex.
While it may be an “abundance of caution” … if you would like to reduce the risk then an inch or two of very firm polyfoam in between the mattress and the platform bed or adding a 1" rubberized coir bed rug like this or even something like the vinyl lattice here would reduce the risk.
I look forward to any new updates and let us know if you have any other questions.
Phoenix
Hi bobkbed.
Thanks for the informative post about your slat foundation without center support, etc. You must be really quite handy and creative to rebuild/improve this unit.
As you already suspect, I think with the right 9" of latex, and your center support, you are not going to feel the effects of the bowed slats anywhere close to your old IKEA mattress which was probably 5.6 inches originally (Ikea used to purchase boatloads of 14cm cores from Latexco and Sapsa in Europe.)
As fas as the placement of the “more bowed slats”, my instinct says it won’t make much difference in terms of sleeper support. The standard wooden 1 x 3" slats with gaps and 2. 5" apart (no more than 3") are about 50% of the total support surface area. While it probably wouldn’t be an issue in the shorter term … the lower surface area in contact with the mattress would result in a greater risk that the latex would sag into the gaps in between the slats over the longer term although it’s not really possible to quantify the higher risk except to say it would be “less supportive” for the latex.
While it may be an “abundance of caution” … if you would like to reduce the risk then an inch or two of very firm polyfoam in between the mattress and the platform bed or adding a 1" rubberized coir bed rug like this or even something like the vinyl lattice here would reduce the risk.
I look forward to any new updates and let us know if you have any other questions.
Phoenix
Hi bobkbed.
Thanks for the informative post about your slat foundation without center support, etc. You must be really quite handy and creative to rebuild/improve this unit.
As you already suspect, I think with the right 9" of latex, and your center support, you are not going to feel the effects of the bowed slats anywhere close to your old IKEA mattress which was probably 5.6 inches originally (Ikea used to purchase boatloads of 14cm cores from Latexco and Sapsa in Europe.)
As fas as the placement of the “more bowed slats”, my instinct says it won’t make much difference in terms of sleeper support. The standard wooden 1 x 3" slats with gaps and 2. 5" apart (no more than 3") are about 50% of the total support surface area. While it probably wouldn’t be an issue in the shorter term … the lower surface area in contact with the mattress would result in a greater risk that the latex would sag into the gaps in between the slats over the longer term although it’s not really possible to quantify the higher risk except to say it would be “less supportive” for the latex.
While it may be an “abundance of caution” … if you would like to reduce the risk then an inch or two of very firm polyfoam in between the mattress and the platform bed or adding a 1" rubberized coir bed rug like this or even something like the vinyl lattice here would reduce the risk.
I look forward to any new updates and let us know if you have any other questions.
Phoenix
Hi bobkbed.
Thanks for the informative post about your slat foundation without center support, etc. You must be really quite handy and creative to rebuild/improve this unit.
As you already suspect, I think with the right 9" of latex, and your center support, you are not going to feel the effects of the bowed slats anywhere close to your old IKEA mattress which was probably 5.6 inches originally (Ikea used to purchase boatloads of 14cm cores from Latexco and Sapsa in Europe.)
As fas as the placement of the “more bowed slats”, my instinct says it won’t make much difference in terms of sleeper support. The standard wooden 1 x 3" slats with gaps and 2. 5" apart (no more than 3") are about 50% of the total support surface area. While it probably wouldn’t be an issue in the shorter term … the lower surface area in contact with the mattress would result in a greater risk that the latex would sag into the gaps in between the slats over the longer term although it’s not really possible to quantify the higher risk except to say it would be “less supportive” for the latex.
While it may be an “abundance of caution” … if you would like to reduce the risk then an inch or two of very firm polyfoam in between the mattress and the platform bed or adding a 1" rubberized coir bed rug like this or even something like the vinyl lattice here would reduce the risk.
I look forward to any new updates and let us know if you have any other questions.
Phoenix
Hi bobkbed.
Thanks for the informative post about your slat foundation without center support, etc. You must be really quite handy and creative to rebuild/improve this unit.
As you already suspect, I think with the right 9" of latex, and your center support, you are not going to feel the effects of the bowed slats anywhere close to your old IKEA mattress which was probably 5.6 inches originally (Ikea used to purchase boatloads of 14cm cores from Latexco and Sapsa in Europe.)
As fas as the placement of the “more bowed slats”, my instinct says it won’t make much difference in terms of sleeper support. The standard wooden 1 x 3" slats with gaps and 2. 5" apart (no more than 3") are about 50% of the total support surface area. While it probably wouldn’t be an issue in the shorter term … the lower surface area in contact with the mattress would result in a greater risk that the latex would sag into the gaps in between the slats over the longer term although it’s not really possible to quantify the higher risk except to say it would be “less supportive” for the latex.
While it may be an “abundance of caution” … if you would like to reduce the risk then an inch or two of very firm polyfoam in between the mattress and the platform bed or adding a 1" rubberized coir bed rug like this or even something like the vinyl lattice here would reduce the risk.
I look forward to any new updates and let us know if you have any other questions.
Phoenix
Hi bobkbed.
Thanks for the informative post about your slat foundation without center support, etc. You must be really quite handy and creative to rebuild/improve this unit.
As you already suspect, I think with the right 9" of latex, and your center support, you are not going to feel the effects of the bowed slats anywhere close to your old IKEA mattress which was probably 5.6 inches originally (Ikea used to purchase boatloads of 14cm cores from Latexco and Sapsa in Europe.)
As fas as the placement of the “more bowed slats”, my instinct says it won’t make much difference in terms of sleeper support. The standard wooden 1 x 3" slats with gaps and 2. 5" apart (no more than 3") are about 50% of the total support surface area. While it probably wouldn’t be an issue in the shorter term … the lower surface area in contact with the mattress would result in a greater risk that the latex would sag into the gaps in between the slats over the longer term although it’s not really possible to quantify the higher risk except to say it would be “less supportive” for the latex.
While it may be an “abundance of caution” … if you would like to reduce the risk then an inch or two of very firm polyfoam in between the mattress and the platform bed or adding a 1" rubberized coir bed rug like this or even something like the vinyl lattice here would reduce the risk.
I look forward to any new updates and let us know if you have any other questions.
Phoenix
Thanks for the reply, Phoenix.
I like problem-solving and DIY projects (up to a point…). Cost savings was also a consideration - I don’t really need or want a new frame just yet.
I had the lumber store do the cutting (I have no power saws); I just did the sanding. I already had a upholsterer’s staple remover. All I needed was to buy a staple gun.
Removing the old staples was easier than I expected, and I was able to re-use the cloth webbing. Getting the new slats aligned and the webbing in place was tedious, but straightforward. (Wish I had a basement or a workshop…)
Thanks for the suggestions for additional support. Now that I’m comfortable working with the staple gun and slats, I realize there’s another option: for the same or less than the coir mat, I could replace some of the slats with wider ones, especially in the middle. For now, though, I think it’s good enough.
I have a question regarding out slats (or possibly replacing them altogether).
I’ve just bought a used lovely cherry four-poster bed and a DreamFoam Aspen 10" Latex mattress to go with it. I’m having some trouble with the slats to support the mattress.
The bed is a queen - 60 x 80 inches with 1 inch wide wooden supports down each side (see photos). The bed came with 4 slats which are a little out of shape.
The bed does not have a center support beam so I’m worried about using slats or even a drop-in foundation. I’ve been looking for a reasonably cheap way to support the mattress.
My first idea was using a drop-in metal frame with wooden slats (like this) that would rest on the side supports. I worry that this will bow in the middle over time or just plain snap under sufficiently active bed antics.
I’ve also looked at installing some kind of center supports (such as this or this). With these it seems I might be able to reuse some of the old slats (with a few new ones added) or drop in a wooden foundation such as this.
Alternatively, are there are metal wire bed frames with legs that will fit inside the bed frame? (so that it is not resting on the side rails at all). I was thinking of something like this.
It seems like this is a common problem but I haven’t come across a definite solution yet (or at least, not one that won’t cost $400+).
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
[color=black]Hey aashmore,
If you’re up for a little handyman project and have a lumberyard nearby, consider this, which I just did a couple of weeks ago with my queen bed frame (see photos).
The center support is a 1 x 4 and the legs are 2 x 3s. Sleepworks, a reputable local store, said pine would be fine, but I chose Douglas fir, which is stronger.
To determine the leg height, measure from the floor to the top of the side rails on which the slats sit, and subtract the thickness of the center support board (3/4" for a 1 x 4).
If your floor is uneven, consider adding threaded furniture glides screwed into T-nuts on the bottom of the legs (cutting the legs shorter accordingly). I didn’t do this, but saw it in these center supports sold in the UK:
For additional slats (which I described in a few posts back), I used oak, since the original slats were oak. If I could go back, I’d use fir or poplar, which are much cheaper and sufficiently strong, and I would have used 1 x 4s instead of cutting them to the same 2 1/8" as the original ones.
Since I don’t have a table saw, I paid the lumberyard to do the cutting. I’ve heard that places like Home Depot don’t do accurate cuts, but I haven’t tried them myself.
I attached each leg with a single 2 1/2" star-head deck screw*. Sleepworks recommended screwing the center support to two or three of the slats, but I haven’t done that yet and might not ever do it unless the center support moves.
My new mattress (a 10" latex mattress from Foam Sweet Foam) has been on it for four nights so far, and all is well.
Hope this helps.
Bob
- Originally I used cheap wood screws, but a friend turned me on to good-quality star-head deck screws. Even though I’d drilled pilot holes, the heads of the cheap screws stripped. The star head screws were fantastic - no slipping or stripping.
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Hello!
First time posting after lurking quite a bit around these forums when I was investigating purchasing a mattress topper (ended up with a N1 Talalay 3" topper). When it’s time to move to a king size bed this will be the first place I go to for information and purchasing.
Anyways, the reason I came to this particular thread is that I wanted to get an opinion on certain kinds of heavy duty metal platform frames that have been appearing recently. I recently purchased this one (Zinus Elite 14"), though I’m considering getting this slightly taller one(16" knock off by Ziyoo) for better under bed storage when it’s released in queen size. My main concern after reading through this thread is that it’s hard to tell if such a frame offers sufficient support for a mattress.
Right now I’m just using barebones spring mattress with a topper that I plan on replacing eventually so I’m not concerned about it, but I would like to use the frame again on something like a full latex mattress in the future.
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The spacing between each of the vertical bars is 6 inches and each of the horizontal bars is 9 inches except the center and outer bars which are significantly closer (less than 3"). The bars are pretty much all 5/8" with some of the outer ones being closer to 1/2".
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Are you placing your latex mattress directly on top of this frame of are you using a box spring and then the mattress on top of that?
If you will be using a thick latex mattress (let’s say 6" or more), my suggestion would be to purchase a a flat sheet of plywood or something the likes (drill a few holes in it for ventilation), place that on top of your metal frame, and then put your latex mattress on top. The reason is for that suggestion is that because latex is not stiff, it will squeeze through the openings (particularly where you body weight is applied) and then your sleep will not be as good as it could be.