This Zoombie need sleep

Hey All,

My name is frank and I have been mattress shopping for a couple of months now with not much success.
The current bed we have is a King Simmons Beautyrest World Class. The Bed is between 8-9 years old and seems like the past year it has really started to go down hill. There are noticeable sags where my wife sleeps and where I sleep. We have been walking up very sore and stiff and constantly wake up through out the night. In the morning its hard to get out of bed because we’re so tired and seems we don’t have enough energy to conquer the day and we’re only 30 years old! So we started mattress shopping, talked to some friends that swore by sleep number so we went to check them out. We ended up liking a configuration that was almost 8k, We just couldn’t justify spending that much on a bed. I also felt like the bed had a water bed feel kind of when you moved around on it. Next we went to a mattress store, we laid on some bed and fought off the used car salesmen but didn’t get any closer to figuring out what we needed. We wondered how can we determine if a bed is the right one after 20 mins of laying on it? so with that we decided to try a Helix bed as another friend had recommended it, it could be customized and had 100 night trial. We felt like sleeping on it a few night was a way better way to see if it was the right bed. Got the bed and what a disaster, After on night we booth felt like we had been in a car accident and after the second night it was worse so we swapped out our original mattress and started the return process for the helix(which customer service was great to deal with). So back to square one and after realizing a mostly foam bed was not for us I started looking back at inner spring beds. I came across Saatva and researched them I liked everything I read but got kind of skeptical when there was next to no negative reviews out of thousands. That’s when I stumbled up0n this site and started reading. I figure at one time we liked our bed so maybe we should look for a bed with the same build but I have had trouble trying to figure out exactly how to get those specs It just says Simmons beautyrest world class no other tags with a model number or something like it. I’m 6’7 275ld and my wife is 6’0 170lb we are both 30 and sleep hot. Also we both tend to sleep on our sides/stomachs but seem to toss and turn a lot through the night theses days. So now we are kind of confused on which way we should go we don’t want to get stuck with a bed that we bought from a store that we spent 20 mins on and thought was comfortable and we can’t return it if not right for us. Sorry for the rant just constantly tired and need guidance.

Thanks-Frank

Hi fkudlack,

You did well to get 8 or 9 years of life out of a major brand mattress but it certainly sounds like it’s time for a new one.

You can see my thoughts about airbeds in general this article. While any mattress can be a good match for a specific person because each person’s needs and preferences or the criteria that are most important to them can be very different … in general terms I would tend to avoid them unless there is a very compelling reason that an airbed would be a better choice in “real life” (outside of the many “marketing stories” that you will hear about them) than the many other options or types of mattresses that are available to you. For those that are committed to an airbed and are convinced that there are no other types of mattresses that will meet your criteria then there are some other airbed options that are listed in post #3 here that may be much better quality/value choices than Sleep Number/Select Comfort.

I’m not sure what you’ve read since you found the site but just in case you haven’t read it yet … if you are looking for a new mattress then the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice … and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

While nothing has a 100% success rate … with a local purchase and for the majority of people … careful testing using the guidelines in the tutorial (rather than just testing for the more subjective “comfort” of a mattress which often won’t predict how well you will sleep on a mattress or how it will “feel” when you sleep on it at home) along with some good guidance from a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests in mind will usually result in a mattress choice that is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and will generally be “close enough” so that if any fine tuning is necessary it would be relatively minor and involve different mattress pads, sheets, mattress protectors, or perhaps even a topper if a mattress is too firm (see post #4 here and post #10 here).

I’m sorry to hear that your Helix mattress didn’t work out as well as you hoped for but the good news is that you had the foresight to choose an online mattress that has a great return policy so you could try out the mattress in your bedroom instead of a showroom without any risk.

I would also keep in mind that there will be a break in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of it’s “false firmness” and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here). This could typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress (higher density materials can take longer) and it can be surprising to many people how much their sleeping experience can change over the course of the first month or so.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article).

“Foam” is just a generic term and there are three main types of foam that are used in the industry (memory foam, polyfoam, and latex foam) and each of them have very different properties. Each mattress category can also include hundreds or even thousands of different mattresses with a very wide range of different designs, different “feels”, different characteristics, and different firmness levels. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress “as a whole” so each mattress category will generally include some mattresses that will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP and others that use the same type of materials and components and are in the same category and may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on … even if it uses the same general type of materials and components.

In other words I wouldn’t exclude all the mattresses in several different categories based only on your experience with a single mattress in a single category.

You can see some comments about Saatva in post #2 here and the posts and topics it links to.

All the major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with most of the retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren’t able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here).

You won’t be able to find out the specs of your previous mattress that would allow you to “duplicate” it but even if you did you wouldn’t find another mattress that was exactly the same anyway.

In most cases spending time testing major brand mattresses or any mattress where you can’t find out the specifics of the materials and components inside it and where another manufacturer doesn’t make a better quality/value mattress that they specifically describe as being similar (which in this case they wouldn’t) is mostly wasted because it would be too risky to purchase and it can’t be used as a reference point to purchase another mattress that is “similar” anyway.

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

Your best chance of success will be to follow the steps in the tutorial one at a time.

If you let me know your city or zip code I’d be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area.

If you are also interested in continuing to try online choices then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses that use different materials and components in a wide range of designs, budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may be well worth considering a well.

In its simplest form choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …

  1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

  2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

  3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

thank you phoenix for your response, my zip is 19061. do you know anything about the build of the Beauty rest World Class… like is it pocket coils, or coil on coil, poly foam topper? I can’t remember what we paid for it but is it consider a budget or mid level etc?

Hi fkudlack,

The old Beautyrest World Class mattresses were a line of mattresses that included many different models that used a pocket coil innerspring with various combination of foam layers that could include polyfoam, memory foam, or latex on top of the innerspring although lower quality/density polyfoam or memory foam would be most common in most of their models. The World Class Exceptional used a microcoil as one of the comfort layers so it was a “coil on coil” mattress. For the most part they have never provided any meaningful information about the quality/density and durability of most of their foam layers.

The Beautyrest World Class line was one step above the Classic line and the Exceptionale was a step above that. The Beautyrest Black was the top end of their lineup but none of the Beautyrest mattresses (including the top end of their line) were good quality/value mattresses and all of them used lower quality and less durable materials than I would consider.

Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Philadelphia/Wilmington/Trenton areas are listed in post #4 here.

Phoenix

Hey Phoenix,

So After your last post I kept searching and found Aviya. I ordered there luxury firm and it cam very quickly, its better than the helix but after almost 3 weeks sleeping on it both of use are still not getting very good sleep. Still toss and turn all night waking up frequently and very stiff in the mornings. So today I went off your list and checked out Verlo as they are very close to us. We had a nice experience with the sales person and tried out a lot of beds. Only thing she wasn’t sure of was the density of the Poly Foams used. She believed it was 1.5lb/.17ILD on the HD Poly Foam and for Latex 3.5lb/.19ILD. We were looking at the v7 and v9 pillowtops as they felt the best. What we liked about verlo was that you could bring you bed back to get reworked for comfort once with in first year for free and then a nominal fee anytime there after. We felt that was something that could really extend the service life of your bed. I put the specs Below any thoughts?

v7 Pillowtop(wire edge)

MATTRESS COVER
• Stretch knit fabric woven with polyester and Tencel® fibers
• Fire-Retardant Fiber Fire-Safety Certified
• Polyester Fiber
• 1 1/2" High-density Poly Foam
COMFORT LAYERS - PADDING
• 1/2" Gel Memory Foam (4 lb)
• 2" High-density Poly Foam
• 1353 Wrapped Micro Coils (2.4")
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• Posturized Center Insulator Pad
BASE SUPPORT
• Tempered-steel fine wire support system with open offset coils
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• 1" High-density Poly Foam
• Coil Gauge: 14.5 Total Coil Count- King-2810

V9 Pillowtop(Wire-Edge)

MATTRESS COVER
• Stretch knit fabric woven with polyester and Tencel® fibers
• Fire-Retardant Fiber Fire-Safety Certified
• Polyester Fiber
• 1 1/2" High-density Poly Foam
COMFORT LAYERS - PADDING
• 1" Gel Memory Foam (4 lb)
1" Plush Phase Change Latex
• 1" High-density Poly Foam
• 1353 Wrapped Micro Coils (2.4")
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• Posturized Center Insulator Pad
BASE SUPPORT
• Tempered-steel fine wire support system with open offset coils
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• 1" High-density Poly Foam
• Coil Gauge: 14.5 Total Coil Count- King-2811

Also on both they come as single or double sided beds Is the double sided worth the extra money? I was going to share the prices I was told on each to see what you thought about price vs value on theses specific beds but wasn’t sure if you allow prices to be in a post?

Thanks so much - Frank

Hi fkudlack,

Thanks for the update.

I’m sorry to hear that your Aviya mattress also isn’t working out as well as you hoped for.

You don’t need to know the ILD of the foam but I would make sure that you confirm the density of any polyfoam or memory foam in a mattress because the density is the single most important factor in the durability and useful life of polyfoam or memory foam. “She believed” certainly wouldn’t give me any confidence and I would insist that they find out the density for certain. With latex knowing the density or ILD of the latex layers isn’t important because these are “comfort specs” but I would want to know the type and blend of the latex. The information you need to know about any mattress you are considering is in this article.

[quote]v7 Pillowtop(wire edge)

MATTRESS COVER
• Stretch knit fabric woven with polyester and Tencel® fibers
• Fire-Retardant Fiber Fire-Safety Certified
• Polyester Fiber
• 1 1/2" High-density Poly Foam
COMFORT LAYERS - PADDING
• 1/2" Gel Memory Foam (4 lb)
• 2" High-density Poly Foam
• 1353 Wrapped Micro Coils (2.4")
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• Posturized Center Insulator Pad
BASE SUPPORT
• Tempered-steel fine wire support system with open offset coils
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• 1" High-density Poly Foam
• Coil Gauge: 14.5 Total Coil Count- King-2810[/quote]

I would want to know the density of all the polyfoam layers for certain. If the polyfoam is 1.5 lb density then they would be lower quality/density than the durability guidelines here and I would avoid this mattress.

[quote]V9 Pillowtop(Wire-Edge)

MATTRESS COVER
• Stretch knit fabric woven with polyester and Tencel® fibers
• Fire-Retardant Fiber Fire-Safety Certified
• Polyester Fiber
• 1 1/2" High-density Poly Foam
COMFORT LAYERS - PADDING
• 1" Gel Memory Foam (4 lb)
1" Plush Phase Change Latex
• 1" High-density Poly Foam
• 1353 Wrapped Micro Coils (2.4")
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• Posturized Center Insulator Pad
BASE SUPPORT
• Tempered-steel fine wire support system with open offset coils
• Bonded Cotton Insulator Pad
• 1" High-density Poly Foam
• Coil Gauge: 14.5 Total Coil Count- King-2811[/quote]

My comments would be the same for this mattress as well.

A two sided mattress is generally more durable than a one sided mattress that uses the same comfort layers on only one side of the spring (assuming that you rotate and flip it on a regular basis … see post #2 here) so if the mattress is two sided then 1.5 lb polyfoam would meet the durability guidelines but if it’s only one sided then it wouldn’t. There is more about the pros and cons of one sided vs two sided mattresses in post #3 here.

You are certainly welcome to post prices on the forum.

While the price of a mattress is certainly one of the more important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase … there are many other variables that will affect the “value” of a mattress purchase as well. Unfortunately there isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” the value of a mattress because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that can affect the “value” of a mattress that can each be more or less important to some people and not to others who may have completely different criteria or definitions of “value”. The “value” of a mattress purchase is also relative to how a mattress compares to the other finalists you are considering or to other mattresses that are available to you in your area (or online if you are also considering online options). There are many reasons that a mattress that may be “good value” for one person or in one area of the country may not be good value for someone else that has very different needs and preferences or that lives in a different area.

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

Phoenix

Hey Phoenix,

Upon further calling I found out that the HD Polyfoam in the V9 is indeed 1.5lb and the latex is Talay. So That doesn’t meet the standard for the HD foam. While talking to the owner He said I could switch out the Polyfoam layers for latex but that the price would also go up since latex is much more expensive. The bed as it is now Is $2600 for single side with box springs. He didn’t get into numbers about swapping latex but I got the impression it might be going close to 3k or over. I feel like this might be to much for a king. I was hoping to stay under 2k. So I figured I should go check out magic sleeper. I hadn’t yet because they are about an hour away but I have seen you are a big fan of them. I went to there website though and they have very sparse info on their mattresses although their prices look cheaper than Verlos. Then I noticed while searching they are selling Serta Mattresses which you recommend to stay away from. Do they make their own mattresses or sell others? I found a video on youtube from magic sleeper that talks about customizing your mattress, leading me to think the make their own, but after scrolling there site I’m confused by the lack of info and Serta mattreses. Do they have a spec sheet or more info that I’m somehow missing? Does Magic sleeper have something comparable to the V9(but with better foams) that you are aware of? Any info you could share on them before I drive an hour would be awesome.

Thanks-Frank

Hi fkudlack,

Yes … it is lower quality/density than I would consider for a one sided mattress.

I would agree that the prices seem fairly high compared to other similar mattresses either for the mattress as it is or for a version with latex replacing the polyfoam.

That certainly sounds like a good idea.

It’s not uncommon at all for local manufacturers to have minimal information on their website even though they would be happy to provide you with the information you need when you are there or talk with them in person. This is more the norm than the exception.

They make their own mattresses and also sell some additional mattresses that are made by other manufacturers as well to broaden their line (see their about page here).

Some retailers or manufacturers sometimes carry a few major brand mattresses that can be used as a reference for comparison and also because some less informed consumers won’t buy anything else and it may bring them into the store where they can “educate” them about their own mattresses but of course I wouldn’t consider them as a purchase.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don’t normally try to “match” another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to “match” or “approximate” another one in terms of firmness or “feel” and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the “averages” of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) … the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they “feel” or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else’s opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or your actual sleeping experience on both of them.

Phoenix