Thank you, Phoenix. So now I’m looking at Tuft and Needle vs Memory Foam. Can you inform on some of the pros and cons of Tuft and Needle mattress? I’m not sure I understand quite what it is…it’s not memory, it’s not latex, it’s just foam?
Since I’m having a hard time imagining what that will feel like I’m leaving heavily toward chrstieli memory foam mattress that was around 700 or a memory foam from dream foams. What are your thoughts on how these two compare in regards to quality of material, value, and feel even though feel is subjective and personal maybe we can speculate a bit. For dream foam im looking at the aria and also the supreme but im not sure which ill prefer…either more gel foam on top lime the aria or the thin layer of gel foam and then memory foam lime supreme. I prefer a softer bed than firm and the supreme is listed as softer so im leaning toward the supreme. From christeli I have my eyes on the versaille or the 7" Stockholm but it seems a bit thin at 7". So what are your thoughts on these dream foams compared to these christeli in regards to material, value, feel, and anything else you find important.
Local I still a possibility. Beloit mattress solace is 699 they said. I wonder of that is a far superior mattress to these online ones for the price. Hard to go to Beloit and try it tho. Still gonna go to Appleton sleep shop.
There are three main types of foam materials which are polyfoam, memory foam, and latex foam. The tuft and needle uses 3 bonded layers of 1.8 - 2 lb polyfoam which are a good quality material.
There is more information about polyfoam comfort layers in this article and about polyfoam support layers in this article. Polyfoam is the most common foam material used in the industry and it’s the material that you will most commonly find in the comfort layers of most innerspring mattresses (although they are generally lower quality and less durable versions of polyfoam than Tuft & Needle is using) and is the material that you will also find in most sofas as well. It is generally a lower cost foam compared to specialty foams like memory foam or latex although it comes in a wide rage of firmness levels and foam density levels that are more or less durable.
The Tuft and Needle is a firmer polyfoam mattress that is an “all or nothing” choice which means that in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) it will be the “best” choice for a relatively small percentage of the population, a “good” choice for a slightly larger percentage, an “OK” choice for a larger percentage yet, and an “unsuitable choice” for the rest so it’s “value” would depend on what would be “good enough” for you, where you are in the range between “princess and the pea” and “I can sleep on anything”, and whether your actual sleeping experience indicates that it’s “the best” or a “good” or an “OK” choice for you compared to the other mattresses you could have purchased and the options they have available to fine tune the mattress after a purchase without having to return it.
They have a great return policy which means that you can decide whether it’s a good “match” for you based on your actual sleeping experience and if it isn’t then there is no cost to return it and start all over again. A forum search on Tuft Needle will bring up more information and feedback about their mattress.
The other mattresses you are considering are memory foam mattresses (that use one or more layers of memory foam on top of a polyfoam support core) which is a slow response material. There is more about the pros and cons of memory foam in this article.
When you can’t test a mattress in person for PPP then a more detailed conversation with the manufacturer will be one of the most important parts of your purchase (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) along with the options you have after a purchase to either fine tune the mattress or exchange or return it. Your local testing on different materials and different types of mattresses will be the most reliable way to know which types of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer.
I’ve reduced my online options to the christeli and the dream foam supreme.
Christeli Versailles uses 3" of 5.3 lb memory foam and dream foam supreme uses 3" of 4lb memory foam
Is the christeli the clear winner it costs 50" more and is only 10" thick tho.
Chrsteli says they will to a return no questions asked and pay for return shipping. Not sure about dream foam returns cause they were closed but they sell through amazon and amazon said to me they would do a return for the dream foam mattress no questions asked no charge.
Dreamfoam sells through Amazon but some of their mattresses can be either Amazon fulfilled (for a few of them) or Dreamfoam fulfilled (for all of them). They are also sold direct through their Dreamfoam site here.
If you purchase through Amazon with Amazon fulfillment then if you return the mattress it would be subject to the Amazon large items return policy (see post #11 here).
If you purchase through Amazon but it is Dreamfoam fulfilled then there is no return policy (or at least you would pay the full cost of common carrier returns which can be quite costly). Dreamfoam fulfilled mattresses are usually less costly than Amazon fulfilled mattresses (Amazon usually adds some additional costs to the mattresses they fulfill).
If you purchase through the Dreamfoam site then they have a 45 day comfort guarantee (see the bottom right corner of their site) and there is also a 10% discount available at the moment (see their facebook page here).
Post #2 here has more about making final choices when you are down to finalists that are comparisons between “good and good” and there are no clear winners between them.
Can you do a mattress value comparison between the Christeli 10" mentioned and the Dream Foam Supreme 12" mentioned?
I know I’ve asked alot of questions but I’d really appreciate it. Which one has more “bang for the buck”?
Again I’m inclined to think the Christeli might be better based off of the 5.3" density, I want a really responsive memory foam. Is responsive based on density? For example I notice some mattresses when I lay down and my fingers rest at my sides, the mattress countour even to my fingers where as others do not.
[quote]Can you do a mattress value comparison between the Christeli 10" mentioned and the Dream Foam Supreme 12" mentioned?
I know I’ve asked alot of questions but I’d really appreciate it. Which one has more “bang for the buck”?[/quote]
I can’t tell you which one would have the most “bang for the buck” for you because it depends on which one would be the best match for you in terms of PPP and all the other criteria and parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you. What would be the best choice for you may be very different from what would be the best choice for someone else. To be able to answer this you would need to be able to tell me which one is the best match for you in terms of PPP based on your actual sleeping experience because the suitability of a mattress and how well you sleep on it is the most important part of the “value” of any mattress purchase.
There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here (I think I’ve linked this in my previous replies but it’s well worth reading again :)). You can also see my reply to the same question in post #2 here and post #2 here and post #2 here and post #7 here. While I’m happy to help with “how” to choose and to help you eliminate any of the worst options you may be considering these are types of questions that are too subjective and individual to provide meaningful answers for someone else and that only you can decide. It would be similar to asking which piece of clothing has the most “bang for the buck” when there is no way to define this for a specific person and where that’s not the most important part of the purchase.
The Christeli 10" Versailles is designed to approximate the Tempurpedic Contour Select so you would need to test the Contour select to see how suitable it would be for you in terms of PPP. It uses a single 3" layer of 5.3 lb memory foam and a 6" 2 lb polyoam base so there are no weak links in the design. It retails for $651.83 in queen.
The Dreamfoam 12" Supreme is designed to approximate the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme which is a very different mattress with a different comfort level and a different feel. You would also need to test the Cloud Supreme to see how suitable it would be for you as well in terms of PPP. It uses two layers of 4 lb gel memory foam that total 4" thick and a 8" layer of 1.5 lb polyfoam so it has thicker layers of memory foam and uses gel memory foam instead of “regular” memory foam but the layers are lower density. There are also no weak links in this design for most weight ranges either but if you were in a higher weight range (more than about the low 200’s or higher) then I would tend to reduce the use of 4 lb memory foam and focus more on higher density materials (see the guidelines here). It retails for $599 less the current 10% discount (if you order from the Dreamfoam site with the coupon code from their facebook page) so the current price would be $539.
I would make sure you have talked with both of them, tested both of the two Tempurpedic mattresses that they approximate to decide which one is the best match for you in terms of PPP, and then make your final choice based on your conversations, your testing, and on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
Do you know what mattress the 12" Aria from Dream Foam and the Dream Foam 13" is meant to approximate? I also can’t find their facebook page anywhere. Anyone have the link?
They don’t specify which Tempurpedic mattress is a reasonable comparison to the Aria except to say it’s in a firmer range that they “rate” as being “cushion firm” but they can give you more meaningful comparisons for this mattress than I can. The Dreamfoam 13" mattress is an approximation of the firmness level of the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe and perhaps just a bit firmer based on their comments and the feedback of many people (although these types of comparisons are somewhat subjective and can vary from person to person).
Do you guys allow non mattress discussion. I was wondering where I can find quality sheets. I got 1000 tc egytpian cotton from amazon for like 100 bucks but I’m thinking that I was deceived. Tempurpedic has 250 tc sheets for 100 and other luxury sites sell 300 count sheets for more than what I paid for my supposed 1000 tc. So where are reasonable and good value sheets found?
Support System
3" Poly foam Base 2.0LB
5.1" Poly foam Base 2.0LB
While the designs are different … both are rated as “firm” so the Supreme would be close to the old Select.
I called Christeli to ask them and they confirmed that the Versailles would be an approximation of the Contour Supreme and that they haven’t changed their website descriptions since Tempurpedic changed its model lineup.
Absolutely … I welcome discussion about sheets and bedding. Post #7 here and the other posts and topics it links to has much more information and feedback about sheets and should be helpful.
So I went to Mattress Firm with my girlfriend to test Tempurpedics…BUT, I think we are switching to hybrids instead…and so the search may continue. I have a feeling that memory foam would be better for alignment but honeslty the hybrids just feel MORE COMFORTABLE.
The hybrid we both liked was from Sealy and listed as an Ultra Plush but it felt like it had good support on it still. It was called The Majesty Ultra Plush
and it costs around $1900 which is too much…
Any thoughts on this mattress?
Does anyone make a mattress that approximates this mattress but is cheaper?
Also what is the trade off in pros/cons when you go form hybrid to memory foam? You don’t have to go too far into detail here, or a link would do just fine.
The mattress at the store was listed as containing
Smooth Top Quilt- Waterfall
1" Opticool Gel Memory Foam
*Adv. Core Support Center
1" OptiPro Memory Foam
2" Poly Foam
1" Gel Memory Foam
7.5 Apex HS Encased Coil
1" FlexSupport Poly Foam Base
13.5" Profile
25 Year Warranty.
Hybrid always seemed more comfortable to me, but I just wasn’t sure if that comfort was a trade-off for support or something else. I like the feel of them though alot. Any reputable good value for price hybrid mattresses you can think of that can be purchased online? I would love to go to Beloit Mattress and try their hybrids-- I contacted them to see if they have any mattresses that approximate the Sealy I’m inquiring about but have not heard back as of yet. Hopefully soon, but might you have any insight on this?
I would keep in mind that the design of a mattress will have much more to do with how well it keeps you in alignment than the type of materials that are inside it. Any materials can be used to make a mattress where some versions of that particular combination of materials and components would work very well to keep you in alignment and other combinations of the same materials will be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on. Almost all materials are used in a very wide range of mattresses that vary from very soft to very firm.
The type of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer is a preference choice but no matter which type of materials are in a mattress that you like and is a good match for you in terms of PPP … it’s always important to make sure that they are good quality and durable because most materials are available in lower quality and less durable versions and higher quality more durable versions.
I would also be aware that “hybrid” doesn’t have any specific meaning and generally refers to a mattress that uses a combination of different materials and components. The mattress you linked for example would be a pocket coil/memory foam hybrid and a mattress that used the same type of pocket coil and had latex in the comfort layers would be a pocket coil/latex hybrid and even a “standard” memory foam mattress is actually a polyfoam/memory foam hybrid because they usually use polyfoam support cores (memory foam is too soft to use in the deeper support layers of a mattress).
As you can see in the guidelines here I would tend to avoid major brand mattresses such as Sealy, Simmons and Serta.
If for some reason you are considering a major brand mattress anyway … then I would make sure that you know the specifics of all the layers and components inside the mattress (see the guidelines here) so that you can identify any weak links in the mattress and make more meaningful comparisons to other mattresses.
There is more about the most important parts of the value of a mattress purchase in post #13 here.
That would depend on the specifics of the two mattresses you are comparing.
In terms of suitability and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) it would depend on which mattress your testing indicated was a better match for you.
In terms of durability and the useful life of the mattress it would depend on the quality of the materials inside the mattress (see the guidelines here).
In terms of “value”, it would depend on how it compared to the other “finalists” you were considering based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.
There is more about the different ways that one mattress can “approximate” another one in post #9 here but I don’t know of any other manufacturer that makes a mattress that is designed to approximate this mattress so the only way to know whether another mattress would feel similar to you would be based on your own personal testing and experience. I would tend to avoid using any specific mattress as a “target” though and rate every mattress you test against a common set of criteria.
If you can find out the specifics of the materials in this mattress and post it on the forum then I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality and durability of the materials but it’s not likely that you will be able to find this out (see this article) so in most cases the time you spend testing major brand mattresses is really wasted unless you are willing to take the risk of making a blind purchase where the odds are very high that the mattress will lose its comfort and support much too quickly relative to the price you paid for it. The 2" of polyfoam in the upper layers of the mattress (which are likely a low quality/density version of polyfoam) would be enough for me to exclude it from consideration without even knowing the quality/density of the additional 3" of memory foam that are also used in the comfort layers (which are also likely to be fairly low quality/density). While this is not the same mattress … you can see an example here of the low quality polyfoam that is used in the Sealy Hybrid series. Their memory foam is usually in the range of 4 lbs (which is on the bottom end of the density range that I would consider to be a suitable quality material) to much lower (I wouldn’t consider anything under @ 4 lbs density unless you were in an very low budget range and there were no other better quality and more durable options available to you).
The tutorial post includes links to several lists of the better online options I’m aware of and several of these make various types of innerspring hybrid mattresses. In most cases though it’s a much more effective approach to talk with them first and ask them if there are any local mattresses that may be similar to one of the mattresses they make. This would be much more common with “standard” memory foam mattresses where they include which major brand mattress approximates one of the mattresses they make in their online description so you could test a similar mattress locally. It’s much less common to find an “equivalent” with other types of mattresses.
If you approach things from the other direction and first try to find a local mattress that you like and then try to find an “equivalent” online it’s very unlikely that you will find one (unless it’s exactly the same mattress) unless the mattress you like happens to be one of the few that an online manufacturer uses as a comparison in their online description.
If you follow all the steps in the tutorial post (without missing any) then your chances of making a successful purchase that is suitable for you, uses high quality and durable materials, and is good value, will be much higher.
Aaaah! I can’t do it anymore…I can’t research a new style of beds with coils and pocket coils and inner springs and pillow tip hybrids etc. Lol I am sticking to what I know I wanted to buy from the beginning! Memory foam!
I just cant pick between the christeli Madeline (cloud supreme breeze approximation) and the dreamfoam supreme (cloud supreme app.)
Feeling of the bed aside, is there one that, materially speaking, and for the price, is a monetarily better investment and value – again speaking strictly about materials and the prces of those materials as well as design and build. Not asking about how the design feels but is one built cheaper or cutting more corners?
My 2nd question to you is how come christeli is not on your members list of preferred online manufacturers? Is dream foam just better overall in value, quality, and transparency? I don’t even know what christeli 5.3 density memory foam feels like but something tells me I should buy it. However! They are not part of mattressunderground and their Madeline is way more expensive! Christeli Madeline also has the adjustable core that supposedly adjust the firmness and has the edge guard which idk if that actually does anything. I’ve called each and spoke with each and neither has heard of the other so when I asked how they think they compare they didn’t know what to say. Been debating these two for a while now…is the christelis much higher price tag really worth it? It does have a lifetime warranty altho its not online to read. I know you are trying to teach us to think for ourselves but I think I’m going in circles.
I accidentally deleted my post I think.
Anyway… I know I wanted memory for a reason so I’m going to stick with it the hybrids feel heavenly but I think that’s because I’m use to that feel. I wanna give memory foam a real shot here. And I don’t want to have to research a whole other set of beds…hybrids with coil and coil on coil and pocket coils etc…
So where I left off on memory foam…
Im stick between christeli Madeline (cloud supreme breeze approximate) and dream foam supreme (cloud supreme app).
Feel of the mattress aside, in terms of the materials, densities, designs, and construction of the two would it seem that one is a clear winner and a better value for its price? Also if they were the same price would the Madeline be a clear winner as far a materials, design, construction method etc?
The 5.3 density makes me want the christeli Madeline because higher density is suppose to be better quality in theory at least. It also has the adjustable core which is suppose to allow for firmness customization at home and it also has edge guard. Now idk if these things really make the queen size worth the 900+ price tag.
The dreamfoam supreme only uses 4lb foam but has a much better price. I wanted to ask… How come dream foam made it to the list but christeli did not? Are dreamfoam beds just superior in de objective way that I’m not seeing or is it based on something else like transparency. The fact that christeli is not endorsed by this website does make me feel hesitant to go with them. I know this site kinda aims to teach is to think for ourselves but I feel like I’m going in circles with these two brands.
The forum software keeps deleted posts until I permanently delete them so I can restore it if you’d like.
The Christeli uses higher quality/density materials, has edge support, has the flippable base, and is a higher price ($949).
The Dreamfoam uses gel memory foam in the top 1.5" layer and has a lower price ($599 - the 10% FB discount of $59.90 if you order from the Dreamfoam site = $539.10).
Christeli has a 40 day return policy and Dreamfoam has a 45 day return policy (again if you order from the Dreamfoam site) with a slightly higher cost involved if you decide to return it).
Both of them have a similar firmness level to the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme/Supreme Breeze.
The higher density materials would make “some” difference in terms of durability and the useful life of the mattress but it would make a bigger difference for those that are in higher weight ranges.
When you are down to finalists that are choices between good and good and there are no clear winners between them then the final choice that is best for you will be a matter of “best judgement” based on all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (see post #2 here). There are no “bad” choices here.
While I would certainly read something positive into the fact that a manufacturer is a member here (see here) and they are what make the time, effort, and research that goes into this site possible in the first place … I wouldn’t read anything negative into the fact that a manufacturer isn’t a member here and would assess their mattresses based on the mattresses themselves. I point to value wherever I see it and there are many manufacturers across the country that aren’t on the membership list … at least yet. When the site first started there were less than 10 members and there are many manufacturers and retailers that will be added to the membership over the course of coming years. Post #7 here and the posts it links to (near the bottom of the post) includes my comments in reply to the same question about some other manufacturers as well.
I have a curved slat platform bed with 3.5" spacings. This is okay for all foam right? Would it be okay for innerspring and hybrid? Can you place a Bunkie board or plywood on curved slats for firmer feel or does that not work on curved slats?
I don’t know the specifics of your platform bed or the strength or width of the slats but if it has good center support to the floor then it would “probably” be OK for a mattress that has a polyfoam support core. The gaps are a little wide for a mattress that has a latex support core.
For a mattress that has an innerspring support core it would depend on the specifics of the mattress and on the type of innerspring and I would check with the manufacturer of the mattress to confirm that it meets their warranty requirements.
I would also be aware that a support system that flexes will change the feel of your mattress compared to a rigid non flexing support surface (see the posts that are linked in post #22 here).
If the bunkie board or plywood is stable and secure on your platform bed and doesn’t shift or move or make noise when you sleep on it then it would be OK but I would be cautious with a solid surface support system (see post #10 here). I would also make sure that any plywood you use was low VOC (see post #2 here).
There is also more about the types of support systems that are generally best for different types of mattresses in the foundation post here.
Do you have a link to the mattress you are looking at?
There is a little more about Memory Foam Solutions in this topic.
If you are looking at a queen mattress that uses 4" of 5 lb memory foam that is under $300 then the odds are overwhelming that the memory foam is based on filled density rather than the polymer density (see post #2 here).