Topper on top of my Topper?

Hi Everybody,

I need help correcting what I am quite certain is an alignment issue with my bed/topper setup.

Me: I am primarily a side sleepr but also a back sleeper. Broad shoulders. 6’0 ft tall. 170 lbs
Bed: Memory Foam bed 9 inch Optimum Destiny King (22% viscoelastic and 78% poly foam)
Topper: 3 inch King Talalay Medium ILD Topper from Brooklyn Bedding

The topper helped but after time I still have problems with alignment. My neck and shoulders have issues and I wake up with my head and neck bent forward squished against my shoulder. It seems obvious that the topper is not allowing my shoulders to sink in enough.

The only thing I can think of is to get another topper because I cannot return the mattress or topper. Should I get Dunlop latex to go underneath? Softer Talalay to go on the top? Wool Topper? LaNoodle topper? How thick? I just don’t know how each will have an effect and best results for my situation.

Thanks to anyone who can give me insight to my situation. My neck is really starting to hurt and my lower back still gets very stiff each morning.

Hi JonL,

While it’s not possible to “diagnose” more complex mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing … at least to the degree that any symptoms are from your mattress rather than the result of any other circumstances or pre-existing issues you may have that may not be connected to a mattress.

You may have several issues that are affecting you at the same time.

Once of the most common causes for neck and shoulder issues is the pillow you are using. When you sleep on a new mattress (or add a topper to a mattress) you will generally sink into it either more or less than your old mattress so it’s not unusual to need a new pillow with a different profile as well. A suitable pillow is an essential part of good alignment for the head and neck and upper body because the gap between the head and the mattress and the curve of the cervical spine needs to be supported just like all other parts of the spine. Like mattresses … there are certain “needs” that depend on body type and sleeping positions but with pillows, personal preferences play a more important role because the face is much more sensitive to textures, temperature, smells, and other more subjective “feel” based properties of a pillow. There is more about choosing pillows in the pillow thread here.

The most common (although not the only reason) for lower back issues is a mattress that has comfort layers that are too thick and soft or a support core that is too soft.

While it’s certainly possible to “fix” a mattress that is too firm by adding a topper … it’s generally much more difficult to fix a mattress that is too soft because the best solution would normally be to remove the layers or components that are too soft and replace them with firmer or thinner layers. A firmer topper will generally just “follow” any sagging or soft spots underneath it and at best it may be a partial or temporary solution and at worst it can make any issues that you are having with your mattress worse. For example if you add a firmer topper you could end up with a sleeping system where the top layer (the topper) was too firm for you to provide good pressure relief but the layers underneath your topper could either be too soft or sagging too much to provide suitable support to keep your spine in good alignment.

There are some suggestions in post #4 here that may be helpful for a mattress that is too soft at least on a partial or temporary basis.

Having said all that … the Destiny is the firmest mattress in the Optimum lineup so that would increase the odds that it’s too firm for you (especially if you are a side sleeper) and that you need some additional softness to “fill in” the gaps in your sleeping profile and to “allow” your shoulders to sink in more and provide more even and contouring support and better alignment.

If the only issue with a mattress is that it is too firm and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress then a good quality topper can certainly be an effective way to add some additional softness, “comfort” and pressure relief along with better secondary support to your sleeping system but the only way to know for certain whether a specific mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for both of you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP is based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the combination. If you can’t test the combination in person then there will always be always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress.

There is more information about choosing a topper and a link to the better online sources I’m aware of in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success.

Because of the uncertainty involved with purchasing a topper where you can’t test the combination in person … a good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase and any costs involved just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

Based on your feedback (although you didn’t mention the ILD of the topper) and on the fact that adding a topper seemed to help to some degree … my “guess” (and that’s all it is) is that your 3" topper may still be a little bit too firm for you and if this is the case then you may either need a little bit softer topper in the same thickness. If you wish to add a second topper instead then perhaps something that is a little softer and thinner (the thickness would depend on whether you believe you need a “touch to a little” or “a little to a fair bit” or a “fair bit to a lot” of additional softness to on top of your current mattress/topper combination) would be worth trying.

Phoenix