Topper Recommendations

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi Phoenxix:

Have taken my Talay and another ingredient in it (4 years old approx) off my bed and put it on the floor. The first night it was wonderful. The second night I could feel pressure pooints because it is only a 1-1/2 inch topper.

So, question to you is what would be a great topper to provide both posture alignment (did not feel I could rest deeply into topper or the very very hard Aireloom mattress - 27 + years old) - I didi not feel any support and could not just relax my muscles to sink into topper - so made this drastic move to the floor which was successful one night and pressure points waking me up 2nd night. Because of these limitations and their need to form more permanent body impressions to relieve pressure, natural fiber comfort layers, especially if they are thicker and not just a thin layer over a very conforming innerspring, may not be as suitable for those who sleep on their side or who sleep in multiple positions as the body impression will relieve pressure to a greater degree in one position than others. While these are not “absolute” statements, they will generally hold true and even the most expensive mattresses made this way … while there is no denying the quality of their construction … may not “perform” as well as much lower priced types of mattress constructions in many individual circumstances.Then read what you said: and How true! See next paragraph.

Because of these limitations and their need to form more permanent body impressions to relieve pressure, natural fiber comfort layers, especially if they are thicker and not just a thin layer over a very conforming innerspring, may not be as suitable for those who sleep on their side or who sleep in multiple positions as the body impression will relieve pressure to a greater degree in one position than others. While these are not “absolute” statements, they will generally hold true and even the most expensive mattresses made this way … while there is no denying the quality of their construction … may not “perform” as well as much lower priced types of mattress constructions in many individual circumstances.

So as my Aireloom mattress is loaded with good cotton and too uncomfortable to sleep on all by itself, I ask your deep guidance right now as I am not sure what you might suggest -

I tried memory ofams (prior to you) via online services and their smells are too toxic for me. I do better with simple, healthy, natural and posture alignment and relief of pressure points. The mattress is on hand tied box springs.

Please your guidance - do I need to buy a platform bbed? Or a topper and from whom?

I live in Pagosa Springs - 50 miles close to the New Mexico boarder. But your intelligence here is essential.

What is your take of the SAVVY Company as I saw a video of their layering system on your website but not on your recommended list.

Awaiting your kind help and assistance.

Relaxation

2

Hi Relaxation,

You have asked questions and I have replied in number of different topics on the forum and it would be helpful if you could keep them all in a single topic so I can find your previous comments and questions and my replies that may be relevant to your questions here more easily.

For the sake of clarifying where you are now …

Based on your posts here and here … I understand that you are currently sleeping on a 25 - 27 two sided year old Aireloom that has an innerspring (probably a pocket coil) and cotton comfort layers. This is on a hand tied box spring. You have also mentioned that the mattress is too heavy for you to flip or rotate. Is this all correct?

Also based on your previous comments … your mattress has developed impressions and you are no longer sleeping comfortably and you are considering a topper to extend the life of your mattress instead of buying a new one. Is this also correct? If it is two sided and you can flip and turn it then this may also make some difference and help even out the impressions in your mattress.

With the type of mattress you have the box spring is generally an important part of the total sleeping system and can make a significant contribution to the feel and performance of the mattress and without it your mattress would feel much firmer (as you have indicated it does when you put it on the floor).

Is your box spring still in good condition and with a flat and evenly supportive across the whole support surface without any obvious soft spots or impressions (see post #2 here) then it would probably be a good idea to keep it.

A platform bed would be very similar to using your mattress on the floor so if you can’t make the mattress work on the floor then it most likely wouldn’t work for you on a platform bed either.

So the options you have are either …

  1. Adding a topper with your mattress on the box spring.

  2. Adding a topper with your mattress on a firm non flexing support surface similar to the floor.

  3. Replacing the mattress completely after 27 years (it may well have reached the end of its useful life)

Which of these would be best for you would depend entirely on the condition of your box spring, the condition of your mattress, on whether either of the first two options would be a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and on the specific symptoms you are experiencing on your mattress now and how they change (either get better or get worse) with each of the options you try.

Adding a topper is generally only a good idea if your sleeping system (either with the box spring or on a firm non flexing support system) is in relatively good condition and has a reasonably flat surface and doesn’t have any significant impressions or soft spots on the sleeping surface so that the only issue you need to “fix” is that your mattress is too firm and you need to add some additional “comfort” or pressure relief. If you add a topper to a mattress that has either visible or virtual impressions (soft spots) then the topper will only tend to “follow” the impressions underneath it and may not be an effective “fix” for any alignment issues you are having.

Unfortunately you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress/topper combination and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to recommend a specific topper for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” with any certainty (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) and it may take some experimentation and trial and error to find the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that works best for you in combination with the mattress or mattress/box spring that you are using it on (if you use the box spring it may change the firmness or thickness of a topper that works best for you).

Some of the information and forum posts that may also be helpful with some of the “detective work” and trial and error that may be necessary include …

Post #2 here and the other posts it links to which includes more information about the most common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and the most likely reasons for them.

Post #2 here and in post #4 here has more information about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to each other and to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress that may be helpful in clarifying the different types of “support” and “pressure relief” which are the two main functions of every successful sleeping system.

If your mattress is suitable for a topper then there are some topper guidelines in post #2 here that can help you use your sleeping experience on your mattress as a reference point and guideline to decide on the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that would have the best chance of success.

If your mattress (with or without the box spring) has visible or virtual impressions then some of the information in post #4 here may be helpful.

It’s possible that you may have both alignment issues (from an uneven sleeping surface or soft spots in the mattress or box spring) and comfort/pressure issues (from comfort layers that are too firm) so you may need to make different types of changes to solve each of them.

There is a lot of information here but I would take a “one step at a time” and incremental approach so that you can use what you “learn” and how your specific symptoms change with each change you make to your sleeping system to help “point to” any additional changes that may be necessary.

Phoenix

3

To clarify:

Aireloom mattress 27 years old. Flat (no soft spots). Refilled by company a few years after I bought with cotton. Cotton has flattened down but bed continues to remain smooth as is utterly possible.

Sleeping directly on the Vitagenic mattress that has been overstuffed and compromised is worse than sleeping on the floor.

Realized recently that the mattress in perfect shape - just cotton compressed and box spring also appears to be in perfect shape with hand tied - and topper purchased approximately 3-4 years ago of Talalay and synthetic (no odour when I bought) - this combination is preventing me from feeling support and no comfort.

That is what made me take the topper alone and take it to the floor two nights ago.

This whole combination is not working.

At one point on the forum it says that if mattress is too firm it may not provide adequate support. At another place it points out if mattress is too firm you can purchase a topper for comfort. Am confused.

Also, confused as to how to write on the forum whereby all the things I have said can be readily available to you. Just keep with one topic?

Finally, my own readings is to: 1) Drive to Arizona and just test beds there (10-11 hour drive) one way. Then I can compare latex with ???other beds - but I really don’t like anything but simple, natural, supportive and to be cradled. When I read that I knew I needed something different than I now have and try to talk myself into making do with it. But, what doesn’t work, just doesn’t work.

I am tempted to find a company that has a good return policy whereby I can order the Talalay (I am approx. 111 lbs. 5’4-1/2" and need rest and not keep compromising.

What I find overwhelming is where I can buy a latex mattress, at a fair price, but quality latex (never slept on latex but it appeals to me) a good platform foundation (little confused here about foundation/s and platforms) - and be done with it.

The Japanese style slatted foundation appeals to me but not sure where to buy.

The above would be the whole enchiladea - and I would be done with mattress sacrificing.

Another way I am looking at it is making my own bed - but I have not read enough on the forum to know how to do this and what to throw on top of my present 1-1/2" topper.

So, I am all over the map about just what to do. Cost will certainly determine best approach. In the meantime, I am on the floor with a topper (queen sized - 4 years old) that I doubled it (less than a twin) to see if I can sleep on it better than the pressure points that woke me throughout last night.

I wrote because I need to do “something” in the interim until I can figure how costs for the whole enchiladea (bed of latex and foundation) vs piece meal - trying this and that to make something softer and comfortable and possibly align the spine.

So, I hope this is clearer. I want to be so I can receive help on both ends of the continium (the whole enchiladea vs. piece-meal - like another topper in the interium - whether to be wool or latex or where and wish, really, you could point me to the store, place (I am responsible though for my decisions) but just to lighten the challenge that bed/mattress shopping is.

Relaxation

4

Hi Relaxation,

Do you have two mattresses (the 25 - 27 year old Aireloom and the Aireloom Vitagenic) or are both of these referring to the same mattress?

The topics I linked in my last reply about primary (deep) support and secondary (surface) support and their relationship to pressure relief and firmness should clarify this. A mattress that is too firm provides poor support under the more recessed parts of the body and a mattress that is too soft provides poor supoprt under the heavier and more “protuding” parts of the body.

Yes … I would prefer it if you stick with one topic because it’s easier for me to find your previous posts and comments that may be relevant to your questions. It takes me much longer to search through the forum for your previous posts and my replies and then switch back and forth between them instead of just scrolling up and down.

Once I’m clear on whether you are working with one or two mattresses and whether you are looking for just a topper or for a whole new mattress then I may be able to make some additional comments.

Phoenix

5

Hi Phoenix:

One mattress (Vitagenic) and one hand tied box spring. Both bought together 27 years ago. After a few years, it began sagging and the company (aireloom) overstuffed Vitagenic so fully that it has lasted all this time. Unfortunately, it is way too condensed the cotton, that is, within the Aireloom, for me to rest on even with my 4 year old topper.

There is no support, not really. Why? Mattress too firm and firmer since cotton condensed.

I have two wishes: On one hand make it work (mattress and box spring) with a new topper.
Get rid of it all and buy all new and fresh latex or hybrid mattress.

Third thought is to make my own bed but how to do that? Tear open the Vitagenic mattress and pull out the cotton and start sewing it to make it more comfortable??? Just guessing.

So, receptive to your guidance, here.

Relaxation

6

Hi Relaxation,

Thanks for the clarification.

Cotton will tend to become firmer as it compresses oiver time and while your mattress may still be providing good primary (deep) support if all the components inside it and your box spring are in good condition … the secondary or surface support (that fills in the gaps in your sleeping profile) may no longer be suitable for you in terms of PPP.

If your mattress still has a flat surface and there are no significant impressions or soft spots in the sleeping surface then it would be a good “base” mattress for a suitable topper if all you need is additional comfort, pressure relief, or secondary support in the mattress.

If I was in your shoes and you have confirmed that your mattress and box spring is still in relatively good condition I would probably be leaning towards adding a suitable topper (using the topper guidelines I linked previously) before I considered going to the time and expense of replacing the entire mattress but of course only you can decide which direction you are most comfortable with.

Phoenix

7

Hi Phoenix: Topper wishes:

As cradling, comforting, and a light support.

Materials that interest me: Natural Rbber - Talalay and soft with light support - what number ILD? for sleeps pretty warm to hot, side and back sleeper mostly, sometimes stomach, and 5’5" about 111lbs. Live in Pagosa Springs.

Looked (in past) prior to your website, at LifeKind Sculpted pillow top or The cloud pillow top - thought the sculpted could be better with a few ridges (or sculpting) rather than just a flat cradling, comforting surface?

Also, prior to your website, found the 3" Royal-pedic out of my reach but looked like it could meed needs of support plus comfort, cradling, softness.

Now, thinking about latex - pure natural latex - not sure the ILD with above statistics, but don’t do well with toxic odours, so want pure, natural, even organic at a good price with good return/exchange.

Reread again Post #2 and read this morning Post #4.

The whole idea of ventilation that makes so much sense for a slatted foundation but on an Aireloom, perhaps latex how would a latex topper work without any ventilation?

Bamboo sounds good as a quilt topper/ wool sounds good as a fire resistant/Talalay with a little spring and softness sounds delicious but unsure what ILD would work for comfort, cradling and indeed support?

Not excited about a feather bed as hard to feel support and it can choke you with its overfluffiness.

So simple, pure, nontoxic, no odours (but understand that natural rubber does have a little odour - but not with all the toxic fumes of additional mixed in things.)

Open to your take and eager to go forward (Best company from my location - best return policy for a really good topper - even open to something I have not heard about that you might recommend. )

Relaxation

8

Hi Relaxation,

My previous replies included links to my suggestions for choosing a topper that has the best chance for success.

They are in my reply here …

[quote]There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to recommend a specific mattress or topper for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” with any certainty (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) but there are some topper guidelines in post #2 here that may help you use your sleeping experience on your mattress as a reference point and guideline to help you decide on the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that would have the best chance of success.

The type of material in your topper would normally be a preference choice but if you are interested in trying a topper material that you aren’t familiar with or have tried tested or tried previously or if you aren’t reasonably certain that a topper will be a suitable choice for you in combination with your mattress then the return or exchange policies would become a much more important part of the “value” of your purchase so you have good options available if the topper doesn’t work out as well as you hoped for so you aren’t “stuck” with a topper that you can’t sleep well on.[/quote]

and in my similar reply here …

[quote]Unfortunately you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress/topper combination and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to recommend a specific topper for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance” with any certainty (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here) and it may take some experimentation and trial and error to find the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that works best for you in combination with the mattress or mattress/box spring that you are using it on (if you use the box spring it may change the firmness or thickness of a topper that works best for you).

Some of the information and forum posts that may also be helpful with some of the “detective work” and trial and error that may be necessary include …

Post #2 here and the other posts it links to which includes more information about the most common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and the most likely reasons for them.

Post #2 here and in post #4 here has more information about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to each other and to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress that may be helpful in clarifying the different types of “support” and “pressure relief” which are the two main functions of every successful sleeping system.

If your mattress is suitable for a topper then there are some topper guidelines in post #2 here that can help you use your sleeping experience on your mattress as a reference point and guideline to decide on the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that would have the best chance of success.[/quote]

The closest forum lists to the Pagosa Springs area are listed in my reply to you in post #2 here but there are no good topper sources I’m aware of that are reasonably local to you so you would probably be better off with one of the online sources that are linked in the topper guidelines.

Phoenix

9

Phoenix:

Asked about ILD for my measurements and that I sleep warm. Could you reply to that?

I see that you did not be as specific as I was hoping you could/would be.

Could you try again without all the referencing?

Thanks

Relaxation

10

Phoenix:

Also, asked about ventilation on a latex topper with a spring mattress and no reply to that.

Asked about surface being smooth (latex) vs surface being with ridges in terms of comfort, cradling, support.

Was really interested in your take of the ILD for the measurements I provided.

Was really interested in your knowledge of best to buy and return.

Please be specific as I have been working to be as clear and direct in my questioning and yet am getting back such general generic replies - when asking for the Exact Opposite.

Relaxation

11

Hi Relaxation,

Many of your questions are about “comfort” choices or preference issues which are very subjective and can only be answered based on your own personal testing or experience and don’t really have an answer with the degree of specificity that you may be looking for.

You can read more about the many variables that can affect temperature regulation and the sleeping temperature of a mattress in post #2 here. In general terms … latex is the most breathable of all the foam materials but isn’t as breathable or temperature regulating as most natural fiber materials. The layers that are closer to the sleeping surface will have more effect on ventilation and moisture wicking and temperature regulation than the layers or components deeper in the mattress.

Surface modifications such as convoluting or sculpting will affect the softness of the sleeping surface and to some degree the airflow as well. There is more about convoluting in post #2 here and in reply to question 4 in post #2 here and in post #4 here.

These types of “comfort” questions that are connected to whether a mattress is a suitable choice for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) can only be answered based on your own careful testing in a showroom (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial), your own sleeping experience, or with more detailed conversations with a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer that sells a mattress or topper you are considering who will be your best source of guidance about the mattresses or toppers that they sell (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here once again).

The list of better online sources I’m aware of are linked in the topper guidelines I’ve already linked and there is also a link to some of the better return or exchange policies there as well. They will also all provide information about their exchange or return policies either on their websites or with a phone call if any of the information they provide is unclear. I’ve also linked the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area in my previous replies. I can certainly help you narrow down your choices, help eliminate the worst ones, act as a “fact check”, or help you with “how” to choose but only you can decide on “what” to choose and I don’t make specific recommendations or suggestions about specific mattresses, toppers, materials, or companies or about which specific topper may be the best match for you on your mattress in terms of PPP or all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you because you are the only one that can make these types of choices based on your own personal preferences and criteria.

Phoenix

12

If your best friend asked you comfort questions as I have, you would answer that way?

Gosh Phoenix, I am so disappointed. Truly.

I study, read, and then when I give you specifics you don’t even come close to giving an opinion.

I know you won’t even read this e-mail or will continue referencing as you did to my first reply asking you to be specific. Would you answer this to your dear friend, to your sister?

So disappointed because you could give what most people like (sculpted or plain) - or ILD for the statistics I gave you.

I realize, again, I am just talking to myself as you won’t reply or will reply only with posts and not specific, opinions, ideas (knowing I am responsible for the decision).

And, I also KNOW you don’t give a hoot what I am saying otherwise you would reply with more personalness.

13

Hi Relaxation,

Of course I would (and have many times when I’m asked similar questions by people I know) because it’s accurate and truthful. I would rather be told the truth than something that I may “want to hear”.

As I mentioned in my previous reply … the answers you are looking for don’t exist with the degree of specificity you seem to be looking for because they are subjective and preference issues. Many of your questions are similar to asking “what type of food tastes good” or “what type of clothes should I wear” and no matter how much someone “studies” about the benefits of certain foods or different fabrics these are still choices that each person needs to make on their own. I can certainly provide information that can help with “how to choose” or about the pros and cons of different options but not specific answers about “what to choose” or what is “best” for you based on specs or “theory at a distance” because these types of answers don’t exist outside of your own experience. One person’s preferences may be very different from someone else and a topper that works well for one person may not work well at all for someone else. Again … the kind of formulaic answer you are looking for doesn’t exist because people are different.

Again … I would and I do.

Again … you may believe this but that certainly doesn’t make it accurate. Your best sources of guidance are the people who know their own products best and who are able to “talk you through” your choices in a more detailed phone conversation. This is just the reality of these types of questions … regardless of how you may “feel” about it.

I have spent a great deal of time replying to your posts and trying to guide you about “how” to make the choices you are trying to make and linking you to sources of information that have been written specifically to help others that are asking similar questions to yours and yet I’m not providing the type of “personal” guidance that you want? That seems somewhat strange to me and all I can say is that you seem to have a somewhat exaggerated sense of “entitlement” or an unrealistic sense or expectations about what is possible or how someone “should” be helping you.

If for any reason you don’t find the information here or my replies helpful then you are certainly welcome to a refund of your free registration and the ability to be able to ask your questions and have someone take the time to reply to them and there are many other sites around the internet where you can spend your time that will either tell you anything you want to hear regardless of the truth, provide misinformation that will mislead you more than help you, or won’t provide you with any personal replies at all.

I realize that self responsibility and gratitude can be difficult concepts to master … but they are certainly well worth the effort :slight_smile:

Phoenix