First, thank you for this incredibly informative site! I’m amazed what I can learn here compared to other sites.
My husband and I are looking for a new mattress. A few months ago my husband found the Purple mattress online and being intrigued by the commercials and the technology, as well as the fact that they are local to us and have a lot of good reviews and great return policy, he wanted to try it and I agreed. Well, it is much too firm for me. As it turns out, there is a weight “thresh hold” as they call it were the cell walls of the gel collapse and you sink into the bed making it feel soft, but I don’t meet that. I have a BMI of 20, and I literally woke up several times the first few nights feeling like I was about to fall out of bed because I am so “on top” of the mattress rather than sinking in. It is not a good fit for me. My husband has a BMI of 27, and it is okay, not great, but okay for him.
So, I have spent countless hours researching, wanting to get it right this time around, especially if the company doesn’t have a great return policy. I have read your mattress shopping guide and your list of local mattress stores, which is helpful. We have been to a few stores and there is one mattress we are particularly considering. It is from Mattress Dealzz, which I was inclined to avoid just because of the name. But we tried it and found a bed that seems to be what we are looking for and feels good to us. However, I am just not sure whether to go with this company or not. They are relatively new and apparently they opened a new local factory and started making their own line of mattresses recently, and this mattress is from their own manufacturer. It is a latex pillow top from their Perfect Bliss line. These are the specs I was given for the mattress:
Stretch knit fabric
Deluxe quality quilt package (not sure that means)
3" 24 ILD gel infused Talalay latex in the pillow top
3/8" 32 ILD Talalay latex lumbar
2" 19 ILD Talalay latex
1" 19 ILD/32 ILD/19 ILD zone lumbar support
2.5" racetrack edge
Common comfort core
I asked if the core was made of foam and the salesman said it is latex. I asked if it was dunlop and he said no, it was Talalay because they only use the best. I had doubts about this given that another one of their latex mattresses with the same core only cost about $1000. I asked about the ILD of the core, and here the salesman showed his lack of knowledge by saying it was very firm and guessing it was maybe 14 ILD (He seemed to know a good deal, but apparently not as much as I do from reading your site). However, he did go call the manufacturer for me to ask the ILD of the core and came back telling me that it was 1.8, which I knew from reading here is the density of the foam and is decent. My husband found the hidden tag that says the bed is latex and polyurethane foam (as well as a small percentage of other materials), which is what I expected, but not what the salesman told me. So… based on this interaction with the salesman, I don’t know whether to trust the specs I have been given. Maybe the salesman made an honest mistake due to lack of knowledge, but given the lack of information I have about this company I don’t know whether to trust them.
Do you know anything about this company? Any advice or insight for us and our situation would be appreciated. Thank you!
It’s great to see that you have clearly done your homework and are asking all the right questions … I’m impressed :).
As sad as it may be … you probably know more about mattress materials and mattresses than most of the salespeople in the mainstream industry.
As you mentioned (and discovered) … buckling column gel has a weight threshold before the columns buckle and with your lower BMI it’s not surprising that the mattress was too firm for you. Different types of buckling column gel materials can also have different weight thresholds.
All the layers and components in a mattress will have some effect on the feel and performance of all the other layers both above and below it and on the mattress "as a whole. In very general terms … the properties and firmness of materials and components that are closer to the top surface of a sleeping system will tend to have a bigger effect on the overall “feel” and firmness of a mattress than materials that are deeper in the sleeping system, thicker layers will contribute more of their feel and firmness to the overall sleeping system than thinner layers, and a thinner layer would “allow” more of the feel and properties of the layer(s) underneath it to “come through” than a thicker layer.
Since the Buckling column gel in the Purple mattress is only 2" thick (see post #2 here) … the polyfoam layers just below the buckling column gel will also play a significant role in the feel and performance of the mattress and there are certainly other people that have mentioned that the mattress was uncomfortable for them because of the overall feel of the combination of buckling column gel and the polyfoam layer just below it in the upper layers of the mattress. I personally think that they would probably do better using a different material underneath the buckling column gel (and possibly a thin foam layer on top of it as well) although that would also increase the cost of the mattress and they are already in the higher end of the range for “simplified choice” mattresses that typically sell for under $1000 (queen size).
Having said that … I’m sorry to hear that the Purple mattress didn’t work out as well as you hoped for but it’s good to see that you had the foresight to make sure that it also had a good return/refund policy so you could try it with little risk.
[quote] These are the specs I was given for the mattress:
Stretch knit fabric
Deluxe quality quilt package (not sure that means)
3" 24 ILD gel infused Talalay latex in the pillow top
3/8" 32 ILD Talalay latex lumbar
2" 19 ILD Talalay latex
1" 19 ILD/32 ILD/19 ILD zone lumbar support
2.5" racetrack edge
Common comfort core[/quote]
The quilting package would include the materials (most often synthetic or natural fibers or polyfoam) that are quilted to the mattress cover. It could also include the fire barrier as well. If the quilting materials are “about an inch or so” thick (in practical terms I would use 1.5" as a maximum) then it would have little meaningful effect on the durability and useful life of a mattress even if they are relatively lower quality/density materials. If a quilting package is 2" or more thick then I would make sure that you can confirm that they are also good quality/density and durable materials just like the other layers and components in a mattress because past this point there would be an increasing risk that the quilting package could also be a weak link relative to the durability and useful life of the mattress.
This is one of the reasons that I generally suggest making sure that the thickness of all the layers and components in a mattress add up to being very close to the thickness of the mattress itself (see here) so that you can be confident that there are no “missing layers” in the description that could affect the durability and useful life of the mattress.
You can also see some comments about “racetrack” edge support with latex layers in post #3 here and this is probably polyfoam as well so I would also confirm the density of the polyfoam in the edge support as well and if you tend to sleep with most of your weight concentrated on the outside edge of the mattress or sit on the side of the mattress on a regular basis I would also make sure that it was at least 1.8 lb density as well.
It’s great that you had the foresight to challenge the information you were given because if a description doesn’t specifically mention latex then almost always it’s not.
Once again you know more than the salesperson you were dealing with but since he was so uninformed I would tend to believe the specs he gave you since the information he was given from the manufacturer was probably accurate and he probably doesn’t know enough to have changed it into something better anyway even if it was a lower quality material because it sounds like he didn’t know whether the quality/density of the polyfoam base layer was suitable or not in the first place.
Perfect Bliss is a trademark of Innovative Bedding Solutions which is a fairly young company that was incorporated in March, 2014. I don’t know much about them but outside of PPP a mattress is only as good as the quality and durability of the materials inside it anyway. Mattress Dealzz itself has been mentioned a few times on the forum going back to 2013 and their private label mattresses apparently used to be made by either Southerland or an Englander licensee but it’s possible they may have formed a new company to either manufacture and/or sell their private label mattresses (they may still be using their previous manufacturers and the new company could just be a way to hold the trademarks).
I’ve also added Mattress Dealz to the Salt Lake City list here as well since some of their mattresses may be worth considering as “possibilities”…
Assuming that you can confirm that the quilting package is either 1 1/2" thick or less (or you can confirm the quality/density of the materials if it’s 2" or more) and that you can confirm the density of the materials in the racetrack surround (assuming that it’s polyfoam and not latex) so you are confident that they meet the durability guidelines and that there are no weak links in the mattress and if you have done some careful testing and are confident that the mattress is a good match for both of you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (or you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase to return or exchange the mattress if you’re not) and if it also compares well to your other finalists based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you (including the price of course) … then it would certainly be well worth considering as a purchase IMO.
Thanks so much for your time! It’s so nice to get feedback on our specific situation.
I called and asked about the specific details of the mattress you mentioned, and everything seems good… except for that top layer. The salesman told me it is 2 inches of 15 IFD foam. He could tell me the density of the rest of the foam, but not that layer, and I’m thinking it is going to wear down quickly. I just don’t understand, though, why they would make a mattress with good quality, long lasting materials and then top them off with something that will wear down quickly and probably make the mattress lumpy and have indentations in it (I would think). Is that what you would expect from a 2" quilting layer of 15 IFD foam?
There are many reasons why so many manufacturers in the industry use layers or components that are more likely to be a weak link in the mattress. In most cases it’s because they believe that they will sell more mattresses at a lower cost and/or higher profit than they would if they used higher quality and more durable materials which resulted in a mattress that has a higher price (in which case they could sell less) or a lower profit.
The vast majority of consumers tend to buy a mattress based on the more subjective “showroom feel” or “comfort” of a mattress and pay very little attention to more objective testing and whether a mattress keeps them in good alignment or the durability of the materials because unlike you they aren’t very knowledgeable about mattresses and mattress materials and just don’t know any better. A thicker quilting layer that uses lower density foam will also reduce the surface resilience of the latex and can result in a softer more “cushy” feel which is “attractive” to many consumers and which can lead to more mattress sales at a lower cost even though it can also be more risky in terms of durability and alignment.
Thicker layers of lower density and less durable materials (particularly in the top layers of a mattress) can result in premature foam softening and the more rapid loss of comfort and support in a mattress even if there aren’t any significant visible impressions in the mattress so even though the mattress wouldn’t be “lumpy” … if foam softening takes you outside the comfort/support range that is suitable for a particular person and they are no longer sleeping well because they are sleeping out of alignment over the course of the night then they would need to replace the mattress more quickly.
I would also keep in mind that the more rapid foam softening that you can expect with thicker layers of lower quality/density materials isn’t covered by mattress warranties which only covers manufacturing defects and visible impressions in the mattress that are deeper than the warranty exclusions (when nobody is on the mattress) and visible impressions that are deeper than the warranty exclusion is less likely to happen with only 2" of lower density foam so there would be little risk of a successful warranty claim and the manufacturers know this. It can also work in their favor if consumers need to replace their mattresses more quickly so part of the reason is “because they can” and there is little risk from the perspective of the manufacturer.
There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here and as you can see the length of a warranty has little to do with the durability and useful life of a mattress and how long it will be before you need to replace it.
While there is no way to specifically quantify how long any mattress will last for a specific person or predict exactly when they will decide to replace it because it is no longer suitable or comfortable for them (because this is the only real measure of durability or the useful life of a mattress that really matters) and because there are too many unknowns and variables involved that are unique to each person … if a mattress is well inside a suitable comfort/support range and isn’t close to the edge of being too soft when it is new (see post #2 here) and you have confirmed that it meets the minimum quality/durability specs relative to your BMI range that are suggested in the durability guidelines here then it would be reasonable to expect a useful lifetime in the range of 7 - 10 years and with higher quality and more durable materials like latex or higher density memory foam or polyfoam (in the comfort layers especially) it would likely be in the higher end of the range or even longer and the chances that you would have additional “bonus time” beyond that would be higher as well.
A 2" quilting layer of lower quality/density polyfoam is only a little thicker than the guidelines suggest and your lower BMI range would also work in your favor (although not for your husband) and the quality and durability of the materials is also better than most of the mainstream mattresses that are available in the industry so it’s “not bad” but it’s also “not good”. If the mattress is also “on the edge” of being too soft for you then the risk would be higher because in this case even a relatively small amount of foam softening can take you outside the comfort/support range that would be suitable for you although rotating the mattress on a regular basis would also be worthwhile (see post #2 here) so he would only be sleeping on one side of the mattress for half the time.
It’s also interesting to note that these specs would be better than almost all of the mattresses made by the top 3 manufacturers (Sealy, Simmons, Serta) which by themselves have a market share of about 56% of the industry and they would also be better than most of the mattresses made by the other top 15 manufacturers as well and the top 15 combined have a market share of over 90% of the industry (see this article).
Overall … it would be reasonable to expect the mattress to maintain its comfort/support for somewhat less than the 7 years that I mentioned and it would take “luck” for it to last longer but how much less would be impossible to predict for certain because of all the many variables involved.
Thanks again for you insights! They have been helpful in deciding what to do next.
I have a question about another mattress. It is all latex, with 3" of 19 ILD Talaly on top of 3" of 24 ILD synthetic latex (I guess that’s probably Dunlop) and a Dunlop core. I’m having a hard time determining if the bed is supportive enough with such a thick comfort layer. I know lying on the bed is the best way to determine if it supportive enough for a specific person, but the mattress I’m able to try is half firm and half soft. I think that is affecting the feel of the bed. The soft side seems firmer or at least higher the closer I am to the firm side. I hoped you could give some insight about whether that 3 inches of 24ILD under the 19ILD latex would be likely to provide enough support to prevent us from sinking too far into the bed. Any thoughts?
If the latex is synthetic then it would be Dunlop … probably made by Mountaintop Foam which makes continuous pour Dunlop with either synthetic, natural, or a blend of both.
It would be normal for the soft side of the mattress to feel slightly firmer when you are lying near the middle of the mattress because of the transition between the firmer and softer side. There is more about the pros and cons of a side by side split in post #2 here.
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … It’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
“Support” is often misunderstood because the goal of a “supportive” mattress is to keep the spine and joints in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more (softer) and some parts of the body to sink in less (firmer) and this will vary on an individual basis based on body type and sleeping style. There is more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support/alignment” and “comfort/pressure relief” and “feel” and how they interact together.
Again though … since I can’t feel what you feel or see you on the mattress the only way to know for certain whether any mattress will keep you in good alignment in all of your sleeping positions will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience when you sleep on it. Even people in the same weight or BMI range may have different body types, sleeping positions, sensitivities, and preferences so for some people it may be fine and for others it may not be.
Having looked into Purple a bit, I learned that it’s actually a bit pricier than you might at first expect. They make a point of saying that you “negate much of the benefit” of their tech unless your mattress protector and sheet are stretchy. Since you probably don’t already have anything like that, that effectively adds $174 to the purchase of a Queen (since presumably you don’t want to spend $1,000 on a bed with certain characteristics, just to substantially defeat those characteristics). And that’s assuming you’re okay with just one set of sheets, compromising with some existing sheets while these are in the laundry. Otherwise, a second set of stretchy sheets brings that figure up to $288. With other beds, unless you’re changing sizes, you can probably just keep using the protector and sheets you have, so comparatively speaking, this can make Purple a noticeably more expensive choice. (As an aside, an oddly worded sentence on their warranty page seems to imply that use of non-stretchy mattress protectors may void the warranty, too.)
That would be a concern with many mattresses where point elasticity is paramount, not just with the Purple mattress, so I’d actually consider it a plush that Purple takes the time to mention this proactively in their warranty (although it’s more of a tip and not a warranty requirement).
You can find comfortable sheets that are stretch knit and a quality mattress protector for much less than that. There’s no requirement to purchase the sheets that they offer.
You can use your existing sheets on a Purple mattress as well. Their point about the sheets is simply that if you’re looking to maximize the feel of the buckling column gel, you’ll want to make sure your mattress pad/protector and sheets don’t detract from that, which must mean that some people have used very stiff sheets on this product and complained of the feel (which would be no different from any other plush or point elastic mattress). But since Purple makes such a point of the unique characteristics of their buckling column gel, apparently they felt the need to include this in their warranty, as they mention a few sentences later that the comfort preference is not covered under the warranty (which is pretty standard boilerplate for a mattress warranty).
They state the not using a stretchy mattress protector will negate much of the benefits of the mattress – there is no implication of voiding the warranty.
As for keeping the mattress clean and stains voiding a warranty, that is also standard boilerplate in the mattress industry, specifically referring back to OSHA 1910.1030. Specifically, from their warranty page:
This warranty shall not apply if Purple determines in its reasonable discretion that the mattress or foundation has been damaged, abused, or neglected; it shall be reasonable without limitation to make such determination if the following are present: Tears, stains, odors, unsanitary conditions, folds, footprints, burns, cuts, or signs of jumping on the bed, rodents, insect damage or other infestation, damage from liquids or gels or blood or bodily fluids or other fluids, or damage from weather or sun exposure. Purple highly recommends the use of a very stretchy, breathable mattress protector because without such protection your mattress may not be clean enough or undamaged enough to have this warranty apply. Please note that a non-stretchy or non-breathable mattress protector (or non-stretchy tight sheets) will negate much of the benefit of The Purple® Bed. For the health and safety of anyone who would be required to dispose of, or otherwise handle, the sleep set, Purple and its retailers or agents may refuse to inspect such products to assess whether covered by the warranty, in which case, Purple reserves the right to deny warranty coverage. Photos may be requested to be sent by internet to Purple. Localized firmness changes are normal and are not covered under warranty. Comfort preferences are not covered under warranty. The mattress must be always covered in use or the warranty is void (UV light degrades cushioning materials).
Overall, your interpretation of this section of the Purple warranty isn’t accurate (I know some of the dry writing of warranties can be a bit confusing), which is why I’ve provided the clarification here.
Good point, though the fact remains that you probably need to spend more than $999 to get the benefits of this $999 mattress. As for other mattresses where point elasticity is paramount, is there a certain “spec” that tells you that that is the case? i.e. is there an easy way to know whether a given mattress will specifically benefit from stretchy accessories?
Yup, that’s the portion, and as I said, I thought it was oddly worded and not crystal clear, which is why I qualified my statement with “seems to imply.” But I think I see what they mean now… the “may refuse” to cover disclaimer presumably refers to what had been said further up in the warranty statement (“unsanitary conditions,” etc.), rather than what had been stated in closer proximity (regarding “a non-stretchy or non-breathable mattress protector”). A little editing might help there! For example, if they had put the entire sentence that begins with “Please note” in parenthesis (with a little artful rephrasing to cover the sheet as well, without nesting parentheses), that would make it more clear that that is “helpful info” and not specifically related to the terms of the warranty. Anyway, thanks for making me read it again, more slowly.
This would apply to any mattress you purchased, as you’ll need to acquire a mattress pad/protector and a set of sheets (and perhaps a pillow or two). This is not unique to this particular mattress. You’ll always want to maintain a healthy and comfortable sleep environment.
Point elasticity tends to be higher in item mattresses containing memory foam and latex, as they are the most point elastic foam padding materials, but the point being made it that you don’t want a mattress pad/protector or set of sheets that would be stiff and detract from the comfort of your mattress, which you would probably notice more with a plush product than with a harder feeling product.
Yes, that entire paragraph deals with things that can potentially void the warranty, including unsanitary conditions – you are correct. The one sentence in the middle of that paragraph is more than likely the result of people who have purchased mattress protectors that are quite thick or perhaps have a vinyl layer in them (or are a zippered vinyl encasement), which could dramatically alter the comfort of the mattress.
My point was, if you choose a mattress where non-stretchy sheets and protector would not “negate much of the benefit” of the mattress (their words), odds are you could use the ones you already own from your previous mattress, which may not otherwise be in need of replacement. I don’t see a reason to assume that anyone who buys a new mattress (of the same size as what they already had) necessarily immediately buys new protector and sheets for it, especially if they are perfectly happy with the design and feel of the sheets they already have. Yet if they don’t want to negate the benefits of this design, they would need to buy new ones regardless, and therefore need to spend more to get the benefits of this $999 mattress compared to many others, since most people probably aren’t already using stretchy sheets/protectors.
That brings up another interesting variable in the comfort aspect of mattress shopping, though. Some people are very fussy about the feel of the sheets that they like. They may happen to really like sheets that are incompatible with getting the best benefit of a particular design. Some people just love flannel sheets, satin sheets, whatever. Or all-natural sheets… are any “stretchy” sheets all natural? Just what we need, one more variable in selecting a mattress.
Actually, I think their point was that you want to use a mattress protector to help avoid things happening that might void the warranty, and as an aside, in that sentence in the middle, they wanted to point out that a non-stretchy protector will impede the benefit of their design. I don’t think they meant to imply that any particular mattress protector could void the warranty. But yeah, that paragraph is not a model of clarity!
This could be the case with any mattress. As I’ve mentioned countless times here on the forum, the items closest to your skin can have the most dramatic impact upon comfort (and temperature regulation), and your sheets and mattress and/protector will change the feel of any mattress upon which they are placed. At least Purple is being proactive in bringing that up, and I applaud them for that and wish there was more of managing expectations in the industry, or at least on the retail side of things, specifically with salespeople in brick and mortar locations.
I should have said the two sentences in the middle of that paragraph. Yes, there is no statement about any certain mattress pad voiding a warranty.
I agree that one could need a less common kind of sheet to get the best out some other mattresses as well (not just Purple), and that it’s good that Purple lets you know. But their tech is kind of unusual, isn’t it? That is, while people may prefer this or that kind of sheet on any mattress, it’s unusual that a particular mattress design inherently begs for a particular kind of sheet to get its benefit, isn’t it?
To take this a bit out of the realm of the theoretical and back to a particular real situation, as we’ve discussed, I’m still in my eval period on a Brooklyn Bedding mattress. I’ve been using the same kinds of cotton sheets I’ve been happy with on my previous traditional coil mattress. Based on the Brooklyn technology, is there reason to believe some other kind of sheet might be better suited? Again, not better suited to me (something you can’t answer), but something better suited to the functionality of the construction of the mattress (as a stretchy sheet is to the Purple)? Whether itself a stretchy sheet or something else?
No, not really. Any king of material that is quite point elastic (latex, memory foam, this particular buckling column gel…) would benefit from a mattress pad/sheet combination that has good flexibility.
I wouldn’t know how your sheets would rate in flexibility versus anything new that you might be considering. (You can see here a sample of a few fabric flexibility rating tests.) But the TitanFlex foam used in the uppermost layers of the BME is a hyper-elastic material that is quite point elastic, and a more flexible mattress pad or fitted sheet will allow the user to experience more of the properties of that material. And as you stated, I wouldn’t be able to tell if you might like one better than the other.
