Troubleshooting SleepEZ latex mattress - go softer or firmer for better alignment?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi everyone!

I’ve been following these forums and visiting mattress stores for months trying to figure out what I needed/wanted in a mattress, and finally pulled the trigger on a SleepEZ all natural talalay mattress.in Eastern King size. We made our decision after trying MANY different configurations of SavvyRest mattresses in person, and decided on firm-firm-soft (bottom to top) for both sides.

Well, we got the mattress and my partner loves it but I am in terrible pain! Started in my shoulders, moved to my neck, and now my whole body is stiff and sore. and I can barely even look from side to side. I have a recurring lower back issue, but upper back/neck pain is pretty new for me. While I know an adjustment period is expected, I can’t imagine it’s supposed to be like this, and after a little experimenting (details below) I see that my alignment on this mattress is nowhere close to a neutral spine.

The problem is, I have no idea if I should go softer or firmer to get there.

We did some troubleshooting today, in which we drew a green line down my spine in chalk and took pictures of me laying on the mattress in different configurations – the original firm-firm-soft, firm-soft-soft, and firm-firm-firm. We also tried a high profile pillow, a low profile pillow, and no pillow with each version.

The results were that in every configuration my hips are lower than my shoulders, causing my spine to bend upward through my upper back. Surprisingly (to me - I assumed firmer would be better), the best alignment I could get was on the firm-soft-soft with a low-profile pillow – but it still wasn’t right.

Then I had the idea to lay perpendicular to the way the bed was designed (pretty easy to do on a king) so that my hips and lower back were on the firm-firm-firm side and my shoulders were on the firm-soft-soft side…and viola! Perfect alignment, super comfortable. Can’t sleep on it that way, though, because it only works if about 2/3 of my body are on the firm side, and that makes my legs dangle off the bed.

SO…why am I having this issue??? Is there any way to resolve it without a zoned bed? (And what are the chances SleepEZ will cut me custom pieces to make my side of the bed firmer around my hips?)

I am a pretty average shaped person – female, 5’9", about 155 lbs – so yes, I have hips, but they are proportional to the rest of my body. So why do my hips sink so much relative to my shoulders in every configuration except my makeshift zoned version?

I’m really confused as to what is going on, and whether (aside from a creating a custom zoning option) I should try to go firmer or softer to get my spine in alignment. I haven’t tried the medium or the xtra firm layers yet, so trying those is still an option.

Really want to make an all latex bed work! Am I overthinking the significance of visual alignment when I’m laying on the bed?

Will be calling SleepEZ probably next week (after spending a few nights on the firmer and softer sides I’ve created to see how I feel waking up, but was hoping to get some thoughts from folks on this forum as well.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

2

Hi shoshacapps,

[quote]Well, we got the mattress and my partner loves it but I am in terrible pain! Started in my shoulders, moved to my neck, and now my whole body is stiff and sore. and I can barely even look from side to side. I have a recurring lower back issue, but upper back/neck pain is pretty new for me. While I know an adjustment period is expected, I can’t imagine it’s supposed to be like this, and after a little experimenting (details below) I see that my alignment on this mattress is nowhere close to a neutral spine.

The problem is, I have no idea if I should go softer or firmer to get there.[/quote]

While it’s not possible to “diagnose” mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) or any “symptoms” they experience … there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here.

There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel”.

These posts are the “tools” that can help with the analysis, detective work, or trial and error that may be necessary to help you learn your body’s language and “translate” what your body is trying to tell you so you can identify the types of changes that have the best chance of reducing or eliminating any “symptoms” you are experiencing … at least to the degree that any symptoms are from your mattress rather than the result of any other circumstances or pre-existing issues you may have that may not be connected to a mattress.

The first step I would take though is a more detailed conversation with SleepEZ. They will have more experience than anyone else about the type of changes that would have the best chance of success based on your conversation and on the “averages” of their many customers over the years that have similar circumstances or “symptoms” to yours.

You didn’t mention whether the Savvy Rest layers you tested or the SleepEZ mattress you ordered was using Talalay or Dunlop or a mix of both but if I had to guess based on your comments and feedback I would suggest that the most likely issue is that your upper body and shoulders aren’t sinking in as much as they need to rather than the issue being that you need additional firmness under your hips and I would probably suggest exchanging one of your firm layers for a medium so that you have a little bit of additional softness that would “allow” your shoulders to sink in a little more than they are with the middle firm layer. Having a medium layer would also allow for a wider range of possible configurations that you could try to see how they affected your “symptoms” than having two firm layers.

[quote]Then I had the idea to lay perpendicular to the way the bed was designed (pretty easy to do on a king) so that my hips and lower back were on the firm-firm-firm side and my shoulders were on the firm-soft-soft side…and viola! Perfect alignment, super comfortable. Can’t sleep on it that way, though, because it only works if about 2/3 of my body are on the firm side, and that makes my legs dangle off the bed.

SO…why am I having this issue??? Is there any way to resolve it without a zoned bed? (And what are the chances SleepEZ will cut me custom pieces to make my side of the bed firmer around my hips?)[/quote]

Latex is a very “supportive” material and has a high compression modulus (the rate that a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply) so zoning is generally less necessary with latex than with other types of materials but having said that … zoning systems can certainly be useful and well worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right “balance” between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to “match” to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to.

Phoenix

3

Thank you! This information was so helpful. I had already read so much on this forum before buying, and you pointed me to even more great info!

I spoke to someone at SleepEZ and got two Medium layers to play with, and have seen some improvement, but I’m still not quite there.

So far, the best arrangement seems to be Firm - Medium - Soft (all my layers are natural talalay), but I think it is a little too soft. My shoulders and hips are much better in line and I feel very comfortable when I lay on the mattress, but I wake up with lower back pain. When sleeping on my side (my most common position), there is a slight dip in my spine between my shoulders and hips. That makes me think that although my primary support is good with this setup, I may need a little more secondary support. I tried a Firm - Medium - Medium to try to get that, but that was too hard and went back to really hurting my upper back/neck/shoulders.

Right now, I am considering two options. (1) replacing my 3-inch layer of soft talalay with a 2-inch layer. (2) returning the whole thing and buying a latex mattress with a zoned spring core (like mattresses.net sells) beneath 3 inches of talalay. If I do that, I’m considering the slow response latex, just because I do like the feel of memory foam (just don’t want the chemicals).

One of my favorite beds in the store was the PLB bed with a 2 inch soft comfort layer of talalay, and I wonder if maybe the 3 inch comfort layer is just too much. I was also pretty comfortable on a previous Helix mattress that was a mix of memory foam and coils, which makes me think maybe coils work better for me. Are there people that generally do better with coils than all foam? I am not talking about a feel preference, just in terms of getting the correct support for alignment.

For reference, I am 5’9" and weigh about 160 and my partner is 5’10’ and weighs about 180.

Thanks so much for any advice! I’m so grateful to have access to this forum!

4

Hi shoshacapps,

Based on your feedback it sounds like it may be worth trying medium/firm/soft to firm up the deeper support layers and keep the same surface softness.

A second option would be to try Firm/Soft/Medium if you want to firm up the upper layers a little more but I would lean towards trying the previous option first.

All the layers and components of a mattress will have some effect on the feel and performance of every other layer and the mattress “as a whole” so one mattress with a top 2" soft layer that has softer layers underneath may feel similar to another mattress that has a top 3" soft layer but has firmer layers underneath. The choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice (see this article). Each category of mattresses has a very wide range of different designs that will generally include some mattresses that are a good “match” for any specific person in terms of firmness and PPP and will also include others that are unsuitable for a specific person to sleep on. In other words … whether a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP would depend more on the specific design of the mattress than on the type of materials and components inside it.

Phoenix

5

Interesting. I hadn’t really considered that switching the layers up in that way could make a significant difference. .I’ll give it a try and report back!

Thanks!

6

Hi shoshacapps,

I’m looking forward to your feedback after you’ve tried the different layering arrangements.

I would also sleep on each configuration for “long enough” (more than just a day or two) to make sure that you can identify any longer term consistent patterns in your sleeping experience on the new configuration rather than going by your experience for just a few nights which may be an anomaly or the result of adjusting to the change itself.

Phoenix