Trying to decide between 3” SOFT talalay latex topper vs MEDIUM…need advice!

I was really hoping the medium would be just right amount of push back for lumbar support AND a comfortable feeling for my shoulders and hips. Instead, it feels more like sleeping on a rubber log. Just no cozy, cradling where I need it. Believe me, I’m trying to make it work! Yes, I wish they offered a soft in something like a 22 ILD, but 19 is the only option they have. And who knows, maybe that exactly the sweet spot for me.

I don’t have any photos of my side sleeping, but I can tell you, it definitely feels like I’m sleeping on top with barely any sinkage, particularly around my shoulders. Very painful. I can try to take a photo after 20-30 minutes, but can’t guarantee it. Would it be a photo with the sheet on over the covered latex topper? Or remove the sheet?

I’m just about ready to make the exchange call today. I don’t think I can take another painful night on this topper. EDIT: I just called and made the exchange to the SOFT. Wish me luck that it works!

Thanks for replying!

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Okay, I’ve been sleeping on the exchanged topper for 12 days (it’s 3” soft 19 ILD talalay latex now vs the medium that I will return). It does feel more comfortable than the medium—less firm pushback. However, since I already have chronic shoulder arthritis and calcium/spurs, that still hurts even with the softer cradling. Not the topper’s fault. I’m going to check with my ortho doc to make sure I don’t have any rotator cuff tears, as well. Arrgh,

But also, I’m finding that I wake up with some lower back pain and some hip soreness. Generally stiff all over. Even my knees at times. I’m strictly a side sleeper. The hip and knee pain subsides during the day, but the back pain often persists. I simply cannot go back to the medium topper, though. Just too firm. No cradling whatsoever.

My local mattress guy had given me some thin HD poly “firming pads” less than 1” thick and just large enough to put in the pelvic/lumbar region to try. Question: Should I lie them UNDER the topper or OVER it? I thought I would stack two of them.

I also have maybe a 1” XL HD poly pad/topper I could use instead, but I would need to trim off the area where my shoulders lie or it might be too firm for cradling. Again, if I used that instead, do I put it UNDER the topper or on TOP? My topper is encased in a zippered cotton cover, so I would prefer to have my sheet over THAT vs directly over the HD foam pad/topper. But, by having it UNDER the soft later topper, would my hips/pelvic region still sink too much into the latex before feeling the firmer HD underneath? Aaack, this is frustrating.

If ONLY my shoulders (mostly the right currently) didn’t HURT so much regardless of what I’m lying on, I’m sure I wouldn’t have to toss and turn all night trying to get comfortable. I have a feeling that’s tweaking my lumbar region from all the twisting and looking for the sweet spot of my painful shoulder. In that case, until I alleviate the shoulder pain, I’m not sure the lower half will be as comfortable as I would like.

Any thoughts? Maverick?

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I think you should try the pad under the topper. The main way for you to find what could work best for you is to try every combination and put all the data together to make the best choice

I think you’re on the right track, especially with having your shoulder checked out. If the shoulder is the primary issue, it can absolutely make it harder to evaluate the mattress because you’ll naturally twist, reposition, and tense up trying to find a comfortable position.

As for the HD poly pads, I would start by putting them under the latex topper. As @Gc123 pointed out. That lets the latex continue to do what it’s supposed to do, which is provide pressure relief for your shoulders, while the firmer foam underneath can act as a localized support layer for your pelvis. Putting the HD foam on top would likely create a pressure point and take away some of the contouring you’re getting from the Talalay.

One thing I’d try first is just a single pad under the pelvic/lumbar area. Two stacked together may work, but I’d make one change at a time so you know what’s helping and what’s not.

The other possibility is exactly what you mentioned. If your shoulder pain is causing you to toss and rotate all night, your lower back and hips may simply be reacting to that rather than the mattress itself. I think it makes sense to see what your orthopedist says before making too many changes.

Sometimes the mattress isn’t the primary problem. It’s just exposing another issue that’s already there. I forgot if I mentioned this somewhere along the way. Using a medium firm lofty pillow as a pseudo body pillow when you sleep on your side, with one arm on top of the pillow and one below, can reduce a log of pressure. I sleep this way every night when I roll to my left side, when I roll to my right I tuck my duvet and cotton blanket between my knees to reduce them banging into each other and ease the pressure on my back.

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Thank you, Maverick. And to Gc123. I’ll give the firming pads a try. Actually, before I read this, I had already placed the two thin pads under the topper. Hope the placement is right. They’re definitely thin. I can see how it goes tonight and then maybe remove one if things don’t feel better.
I will say, though, today my back pain subsided faster than yesterday. I’ve had ongoing issues with waking up around 2 or 3 AM and if my shoulder is hurting, often more times. BUT, if I take 2 generic Benadryl I sleep better, so less tossing and turning. I took two last night. However, I’ve been reading it’s no longer recommended for seniors to take diphenhydramine due to possible cognitive issues. Phooey. So, I’m on my own!

As for the shoulders, they take turns. Sigh, I’ve had calcium deposits, spurs and increasing arthritis in both of them for years. A few years ago a cortisone shot in the right one took care of the problem until maybe 6-8 weeks ago. By then the LEFT was acting up more. Arrgh. So in June after x-rays I had two more cortisone injections. Have to wait four months for more, though. Thing is, they didn’t work as well this time. Left started hurting early on, but subsided. And I’m not sure WHY my right shoulder pain has flared up. The left had been the primary culprit. I’m wondering if it could be a rotator cuff tear, as well. Different feeling than the other arthritic/spur issue. And definitely worse in bed!

Oh my goodness, it wasn’t my intention to go on and on about my shoulder OR back ailments. I just want to give you a little history. I’m really hoping that if I ever get this pain under control, everything WILL feel the way it SHOULD with my topper. And I sure hope that even the 19 ILD isn’t too firm for my shoulders. I’m hoping the pain is NOT caused by the topper, but maybe exacerbated just by lying on it (or them).

I’ve slept with a pillow between my knees for 40+ years. I can’t sleep without it. I also have another pillow I try to push up against my back, too when I’m on my side. I also have a small pillow I sometimes put under my painful arm/shoulder. Sometimes it works; other times not so much.

I’ll keep experimenting. When my orthopedist gets back from vacation, I’ll see what he says.

Thanks once again for your thoughtful reply. It’s very much appreciated.

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Well, I’ve decided that 3” of ANY ILD talalay latex is too thick for me as a topper. I’m going to try a 2” soft talalay topper and if THAT doesn’t work, then latex toppers just aren’t for me. Maybe all I really need IS 2” just to add a bit more softness to my already supportive mattress vs changing the whole feel of the mattress. We’ll be boxing up the 3” medium tomorrow and sending it back. Then ordering the 2” soft and will give it a try for up to a month or as long as my back and shoulders can handle it. If IT doesn’t work, then I’ll know I, at least gave it the old college try. Yes, it will be back to the drawing board. Sigh.
In the meantime, I removed the 3” soft topper this evening. Can’t bear another night on it. Instead, I temporary put a 1” decent poly topper that WAS on my husband’s side. On top of that I folded over two blankets and then the sheet fitted over it. Wish me luck for a good night’s sleep! After LMF receives the 3” medium they can send me the 2” soft and we’ll go from there!

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I agree on that 3" of solid latex can be too much. I like 2" for the top layer before getting into a form of support, maybe with a layer of wool on top of the 2". It seems it’s better to run into the support apex a little sooner in the build than many would expect. I know on my avocado luxury ultra plush it’s like a 2/10 softness but somehow they manage to make it support a medium/heavy person like me very well. As long as you reach that support point somehow quick enough to maintain your alignment, through whatever means, a bed can be very soft on the top.

And I have seen people having issues with the 3" topper much more often than I have read about issues with the 2". 2" is way easier to move around and work with as well as layer with other materials in the build.

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For some reason I always feel like I’m going to fall off of the 3”, whether it was medium OR soft. Almost like I didn’t have a mattress underneath. Where do you find a layer of wool? It would be Twin XL. I hate to keep spending $$ when I’m not sure what’s going to work for me. But, if the wool would give it a little less bouncy support and cradling, I’m up for it!

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I think trying the 2" soft is a reasonable next step. The 3" may have changed the overall feel of your mattress more than you anticipated, depending on how all the mattress layers and your personal characteristics are interacting. A 2" topper will still add some pressure relief, but it generally lets more of the mattress’s original support and feel come through. Sometimes that ends up being the better balance. Latex can be a bit nuanced. As the ILD goes up, you’re generally going to notice more of the latex’s inherent support and pushback. At the lower ILDs, it still has that characteristic latex resilience, but it can also feel softer and a bit more “squishy,” especially in a thicker 3" layer. How that translates for any one person really depends on the thickness, the mattress underneath, and how much you’re compressing the topper. With a 2" topper, again depending on your body type, sleeping position, and the characteristics of the mattress underneath, you are likely to engage the support layers a little sooner. For some people, that’s actually the sweet spot because it adds just enough pressure relief without masking the support of the mattress. For others, especially if they need a little more immersion for their shoulders or hips, it may not provide quite enough cushioning. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

As for feeling like you were going to fall off the bed with the 3" topper, I can actually understand that sensation. You’re sleeping on top of an additional 3" comfort layer, so it’s not surprising that the edge can feel different than the mattress itself. My 3" Talalay topper is 36-38 ILD, so it’s firmer and doesn’t compress as much, but even then I notice there’s less edge support than the mattress alone when I’m getting in or out of bed. The Plank Luxe also has very robust edge support, so that probably minimizes it in my case.

On the wool question, you don’t necessarily have to buy a dedicated wool topper just to see if you like what wool adds. You could simply take a nice wool comforter and place it on top of the mattress under your fitted sheet to test the waters. This one at Marshalls is one of the best values I’ve come across. It’s well made, durable, and if you decide you don’t like sleeping on it, it still makes a great comforter or duvet insert. For a Twin XL, you could just fold it in half.

I actually have this same comforter on my bed as one of my duvets (long story :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:), so I’m pretty familiar with it. Wool is remarkably temperature neutral. It helps insulate when it’s cold but is also excellent at regulating heat and moisture, so it stays surprisingly comfortable in the summer as well. Beyond the temperature benefits, it can add just a touch of surface cushioning and help tone down some of latex’s lively, buoyant feel without dramatically changing the support underneath when you use it as a temporary pseudo topper/mattress pad, to test the waters.

Wool won’t feel like another foam layer. It has a way of taking a little of the bounce out of latex while adding a touch of surface cushioning and a more “grounded” feel without dramatically changing the support underneath. It isn’t a night-and-day difference, but sometimes those smaller refinements are all that’s needed. Shephard’s Dream sells wool batting that you could simply lay on top of the latex topper, provided you use a mattress protector, or get a topper cover that would allow for an extra inch of wool to sit on top of the topper inside the cover.

I know this is starting to feel like a high school science project, but mattress tuning often ends up being a process of making one small change at a time until everything comes together. I have a feeling you’ll get there.

Maverick

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Yes, I agree this is starting to feel like a h.s. science experiment! :wink:

I slept on my supportive mattress last night with 1” poly foam. Not sure where I got it, but it seems to be more durable than the cheap type or those egg carton toppers. Temporary for now. On top of that I put two folded blankets as I previously mentioned. And the fitted cotton sheet.

I definitely preferred the feel of a more “stable” surface. No bouncing, except maybe for the talalay latex withIN my quilted mattress. Minimal. As you said, a more grounded feel.

Sure, I still woke up sporadically during the night (actually wee hours of the morning.) But not for long periods. And I did go to bed later.

One difference I noticed when I woke up and even during my time in bed is that my shoulders weren’t aching as much as when sleeping on latex! Especially my right shoulder that literally has been KILLING me. Yes, they aren’t pain-free, but a heck of a lot better than they have been.

I asked Google AI today if it’s possible that even a 2” soft talalay latex topper will still aggravate my shoulder because of my poor history with the 3” in soft and medium. Added I was a side sleeper and my weight of 130-140. AI responded and said that it felt even a 2”won’t solve my problem of shoulder pain and that perhaps I should look for a different TYPE of topper. Something with less pushback. Of course, I don’t always believe what AI tells me, but maybe he/she is on to something. I’m just not a fan of that rubbery feel of latex unless it’s INSIDE my mattress. Whether a 2” height will change that or not, I don’t know. And truthfully, I’m getting weary of exchanging these toppers. I think my hubby is, too. :wink:

So, that’s where I am right now. We’ll be rolling up the medium 3” today and having FedEx pick it up. I’m almost at the point where I’m going to tell LMF that I also plan to return the 3” soft and forget exchanging it for a 2”. I just need something less “bouncy” and more grounded under my back, but still giving me the support and cushioning I need.

I still might find a merino wool topper for whatever foam I end up with underneath. Or maybe find a wool blanket and fold it like what I have now. Trouble is, a lot of those wool toppers are pricey! And not many in XL twin size. Decades ago we had a king size Merino wool pad with elastic bands from The Company Store. The wool was exposed on top. Used it for years. But they’re SO expensive now, even with a sale and I’ve read some reviews where the quality isn’t the same.

I’ll let you know what I decide to do! But, I honestly wonder if latex is going to work. Funny, since my pillow is shredded latex and my mattress has two top layers of talalay over the firm springs. Latex toppers just might be a whole new ballgame for me.

Settling down the bounciness of latex is a great way to make it comfortable. When I first started DIY I learned I love latex on top of memory foam because the latex adds support and keeps your body heat from the memory foam which prevents it from feeling softer than it is without any warmth. Because memory foam often softens when warm.

Also since the memory foam has such low responsiveness, it settles down the latex drastically and helps with contouring.

Polyfoam has balanced responsiveness. Foambymail.com has HD36 convoluted toppers that will be medium-soft and I’ve read great reviews about that topper. It’s also only $50. I’ve thought of trying one just to feel how it would perform. Probably would use it face down.

It’s really interesting how mattresses work. They’re like sandwiches. How you layer each part of a sandwich will change the flavor of it even if two different sandwiches are made with the same ingredients. Yet with a mattress, even if you were to add a half inch of latex to the bottom of the foam stack, you’ll still experience a more responsive bed than a bed that did not have that layer. And even using either a layer of latex or base foam under the springs would affect the feel of the rest of the mattress a small amount.

I hadn’t thought of adding memory foam UNDER latex, although it would need to be 2” latex. I don’t need it any TALLER. Before receiving my 3” medium and then the soft, I tried sleeping on a firmer 1” talalay layer I happened to have with a 2” (old) memory foam topper on TOP. It wasn’t that great. Maybe if I had reversed it I would have felt better. Who knows! I’m thinking the memory foam had outlived its life which doesn’t help. But I do agree that tweaking latex with something else under or over it might make it less rubbery/bouncy. Thing is, I’m at the point where I’m ready to abandon latex as a topper, period. Might not be so bad if it didn’t involve all the rolling and packing them up. :wink:

Thank you for your insight! Makes perfect sense.

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Well, I’ve slept on my old 2” memory foam topper on top of a 1” equally old poly layer for three nights so far. (Waiting for my ViscoSoft Select High Density 2” memory foam infused with cooling gel topper to arrive).

Wow, what a difference. Even though my previous chronic shoulder issue is still there, it’s not as bad when sleeping or during the day. And my back and hips feel good when I wake up! I don’t have that all-over stiff feeling I was having on the talalay latex. Like night and day! Even my knees don’t hurt like they were on the were. I felt like a hobbly old lady all day after sleeping on latex.

Hopefully, the new HD memory foam will work even better. I will remove the old 1” PU foam layer. No need for that. I want to see how the memory foam feels on its own, especially since I’m sure it’s a much higher density foam than my current old topper. I am also going to put a lightly quilted thin mattress protector over that before the fitted sheet. The ViscoSoft memory foam comes encased in a soft, zippered cover. Soooo…my talalay latex topper quest is over.

If I decide 3” of this memory foam will work better than the 2”, I’ll make an exchange. I really don’t need more than a subtle comfort layer over my already-supportive latex and coil mattress. Also, I’m thinking 3” will sleep warmer since it sinks down a bit more. I don’t need that. And I don’t want my hips to hammock causing back pain. So, we’ll see now it goes!

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