Tuft and Needle Misinformation

Has anyone notice that Tuft and Needle has changed recently?

In some respects, you can classify their business model as “little guys with a decent mattress looking to expose the mattress industry for crooks.” The trouble is, I feel that their recent ads now show that they themselves are not beneath misinformation to sell a product and in doing so, they themselves have become greedy.

I present to you my evidence. On the Tuft and Needle website:

you will find three tabs. One will say “The Truth” and this is their “education” portion of the page. There you will find a video where they outline much of their sales pitch and then follow it up with more reinforcement of the same ideas as you scroll down the page.

A lynchpin of their pitch is that they knock on materials currently used in beds and proceed to explain how they all are inferior in one way or another. They then set the stage to elevate their own proprietary foam as superior to all those other materials. Some noteworthy quotes taken directly from the video and website follow and I will look at them one by one:

  1. Latex has no give. The more you push on it, the more it pushed back. It was high tech in the 80’s, they just never stopped using it.” -Tuft and Needle Website

-In contrast, The Mattress Underground teaches: “Perhaps latex’s greatest advantage is that it has the ability to be soft and conforming when it is initially compressed and then become firmer more quickly than other materials when it is compressed more deeply. This means that even a relatively soft latex (28 ILD and higher) can be used as a mattress core where its upper softness can help to form a pressure relieving cradle while its deeper firmness can still provide excellent support (the ability to prevent heavier parts of you from sinking down too far) and keep your spine aligned. This also gives it the ability to adjust itself to different sleeping positions, body weights, and body profiles as you change position in your sleep. Because of these advantages, many consider it to be an ideal material.”-The Mattress Underground, Support cores, Latex

  1. The problem with latex is pressure relief. Because the more you push on it, the more it pushes back. This causes painful pressure points. Latex is an outdated material that mattress companies just never stopped using.”-Tuft and Needle Website

-In contrast, The Mattress Underground says “A second advantage is in its (latex’s) point elasticity. This means that it is not only very elastic (will return to its original shape) but that it can be compressed in a very small area without affecting or compressing the area beside it. This gives it the ability to instantly form a pressure relieving cradle that takes on the exact shape of the body. This means that in its softer ILD’s it has a pressure relieving ability that is superior to most other materials and very similar to that of memory foam”-The Mattress Underground, Latex support cores.

  1. Take memory foam. One you sink in, you’re stuck and once you’re stuck, you start getting hot..” -Tuft and Needle website
  • Regarding memory foam, it is fairer to say that: “Finally it is attractive to those who like sleeping “in” their mattress rather than “on” their mattress as it forms a deeper pressure relieving cradle than other foams or materials. While memory foam has real strengths in the area of pressure relief and movement isolation, it also has some drawbacks because of its very different qualities and structure. It tends to sleep hot for those who are sensitive to this and even the newer generation more breathable memory foams are not as breathable or open celled as other types of foam”- The Mattress Underground, mattress comfort layers-memory foam
  1. Innersprings are mostly empty space, so you’re getting mostly empty support.”-Tuft and Needle Website

-This is an unnecessary dismissal of spring mattresses, when in contrast “Innerspring mattresses remain the most popular type of mattress. They are generally less expensive to manufacture than a high quality HR or latex foam and they have been developed over time to provide a wide range of characteristics which provide different benefits for different needs.”-The Mattress Underground. mattress support cores, innerspring.

So! Now let’s see what they have to say about their own Bed:

Our key innovation is T&N Adaptive™ Foam. It offers a gradient of support, so the more pressure you apply, the more it adapts to support you.”-Tuft and Needle Website

You’ll recall that this exact quality, the “ability to support or get firmer with deeper compression” was repackaged as a bad thing when describing latex, saying “The problem with latex is, the more you push, the more it pushes back.”

To conclude, I am perceiving that Tuft and Needle has changed from the “little guy with a good product standing up to big business” to a company whose bed promises to “save” you from the lies of a larger industry while they themselves misinform and mislead you at almost every turn.

Hi Brett,

While they certainly aren’t the only ones that provide inaccurate, misleading, or even deceptive information on their website … I completely agree with your comments.

Polyfoam of various types such as the 1.8 lb polyfoam that they use as the base layer in their mattress is one of the most common and least costly materials in the industry and the high performance polyfoam that they use in their comfort layer is also one of many similar versions that are used in many mattresses (see posts #2 and #6 here) … including many other “simplified choice” mattresses that they compete with.

Basically their mattresses contain two different versions of polyurethane foam.

As you also mentioned … their foam provides increasing resistance and becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply which is no different from any other foam material or even innersprings although the compression curve of different types of foam or innersprings can vary widely.

I should also add that their comments about “markups” are also very misleading and deceptive (see this topic) and “normal” markups or margins are nowhere near what they are claiming they are.

As an example … the Dreamfoam Arctic Dreams here uses a 6.25" 1.8 lb polyfoam base layer and a 3" 3 lb density Energex comfort layer (which is a similar high performance polyfoam) and a 3/4" polyfoam quilting layer and is a very similar design and currently sells for $299 (queen size) vs the $600 of the Tuft & Needle (queen size) although it’s made by a factory direct manufacturer with their own factory rather than a reseller such as Tuft & Needle which doesn’t have their own factory and is made by someone else.

Sadly … I would have to agree with this as well. While they have always had some misinformation on their site … like many other companies as they have grown larger they seem to have lost their way to some degree and become less “mattress people” and more of a “marketing machine” and their marketing has become more of an example of “the end justifying the means”.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,
I believe most of the bed in a box category are “Marketing Companies”, Most do not produce, Most do not fulfill, they market and sell. This does not make them “bad guys” misinformation from any type of company, manufacturers, brick and Mortar, on line retailers, whatever type of business creates a “Bad Guy”. Every channel has their “good Guys” and “Bad Guys”. Your mattress forum is invaluable to consumers by providing unbiased fact that assists to separate the Good from the bad… Thank you for this service

Don Vesey.

Hi Dvesey,

While it’s true that “most” of them are resellers and their mattresses are made by other companies such as foam fabricators, foam pourers, or even mattress manufacturers … there are certainly a number of exceptions that make their own. There are also some companies (in both groups) that have ownership that is much more knowledgeable about mattresses and mattress materials than others.

There are certainly many sources of incorrect information or misinformation in the industry that are the result of marketing exaggerations that are relatively benign and this doesn’t make them a “bad guy” but there are also others that are further over the line where misinformation becomes so misleading or even deceptive that these are the ones that I would have a much more difficult time justifying because the information that they provide is just plain wrong and they really don’t seem care as much about finding a reasonable balance between educating their customers and selling their mattresses and appear willing to say almost anything that they believe will sell more mattresses … regardless of whether the information they provide can withstand legitimate scrutiny.

Phoenix

Well Said!

Thanks for this reading of some of their marketing. I’d been thinking about them as it sounded like their foam may suit our needs. I thought, though, that I’d been reading on here that a general evaluation was that they offer beds with quality materials at a good value with some caution for higher weight ranges. Would that assessment change?

Hi BSON,

There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” the value of a mattress because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that can affect the “value” of a mattress that can each be more or less important to some people and not to others who may have completely different criteria or definitions of “value”. The “value” of a mattress purchase is also relative to how a mattress compares to the other finalists you are considering or to other mattresses that are available to you in your area (or online if you are also considering online options). There are many reasons that a mattress that may be “good value” for one person or in one area of the country may not be good value for someone else that has very different needs and preferences or that lives in a different area.

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

The information on their website doesn’t change the type and quality of the materials in their mattress although it may lead to some people making a purchase decision based on some inaccurate or misleading information that they have come to “believe” based on reading the Tuft & Needle website. As you mentioned there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the Tuft & Needle mattress that would be a cause for concern in terms of the durability or useful life of the mattress relative to more average weight ranges (unlike many mattresses in the industry) and for some people it may be a better “quality/value” purchase than the other mattresses that they may be considering as a “finalist” but there may also be better quality/value choices available as well depending on whether the Tuft & Needle mattress was a better "match for their specific needs and preferences in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP, on the relative quality and durability of the materials in the other mattresses they are considering, and on all the other parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them.

Phoenix

With regard to Dvesey, T&N’s only redeeming quality in my opinion is their bed “with no weak links at a fair price.”

Otherwise, tally up the con’s…specifically: their deceptive markup figures (per phoenix), their complete dismissal of other materials as a setup to clear the stage so that they can sell you their own foam and Phoenix’s assertion that their foam is not innovative nor new as they would have you believe.

I’m not saying that they are “THE” bad guy, as we all can agree there is much misinformation in the industry. I am however lamenting the fact that they have recently joined the ranks of people who think nothing of using highly deceptive marketing. Would you not agree that deceptive people with the agenda of taking your money, however good their product, are on the bad “track”? If they are capable of this, they are capable of much more in my opinion.

Really, if someone came up to Phoenix and told him that “Latex is an outdated material, far inferior to other bedding materials and bedding manufacturers just never stopped using it,” can you imagine what would happen? Phoenix, eyes blazing, would probably wash their mouth out with soap for cursing so bad. They’d get a lecturing somethin’ fierce to boot and then be dismissed to await further punishment.

Hi Brett,

That’s too funny … I love it :slight_smile:

Phoenix