Two 3" Dunlop (ILD 41) with 2" Talalay (24) from Flexus or 6" core plus 2" from Berkeley Ergo?

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I’ve lurked here on and off for a couple of years but somehow keep putting up with my old, too hot, overly soft Tempurpedic, mainly because I rigged up a big wedge pillow and a knee pillow that has somehow worked (I have intermittent arthritis pain in one knee). But after a week or two of back and shoulder spasm recently (gone fortunately), I decided I finally had to overcome my analysis paralysis and get a new bed!

Will start by saying that I love slatted bases --I stayed on vacation in two different places for 5 weeks each with Ikea type slatted bases and fairly thin mattresses–European style–and slept blissfully on both. I’m 5’3", 150 pounds (female), fairly wide shoulders and hips. But now I’ve been trying adjustable bases and think I should get one since I sleep these days semi-sitting up (sleep apnea) and with my knees slightly elevated. I do occasionally sleep on my side toward morning, but always seem to fall asleep better partially sitting up on my back and also watch TV in bed virtually every night.

So I’ve tried many beds here and even in Berkeley, CA at Euro Sleepworks (and thank you for steering us LA people to Flexus–Henry opened specially for me on Sunday a week or so ago so I could get there in an hour with no traffic from Santa Monica). I should say that I almost always like the same setup: A really firm core with a soft but fairly thin upper layer. It was clear to me that I preferred the firmest core Henry had–the 41" Dunlop with the 2" Talalay. 3" comfort layer didn’t feel right (although it was better when I was on my left side but not my right). I really preferred the 2" comfort layer over the 3". Price for the queen bed mattress is $1450 (minus 5% Mattress Underground discount–yay!)

My comparison is with a Berkeley Ergonomics 6" solid Talalay core of 42 (specially ordered from BE for me at Goodnight Mattress in Redondo Beach. Didn’t know if you knew that they now carry the Berkeley Ergo line–closest place to me in Santa Monica by far). The topper was 2" softer Talalay. I liked this somewhat better than Flexus setup and even better again with a 1" covered latex external topper (price $550 minus 10% discount–so $550 with tax). This 6" Talalay core plus 2" comfort layer was better on my side both with and without the external topper. This mattress costs $2100-- minus 10% discount for coming in the first time in May. Henry at Flexus does not have a covered topper. His price for the latex alone is under $200 as I recall for a queen external topper. Don’t think he can get me the equivalent high quality cover as the one from BE.

By the way, what do you recommend as the best material for a cover, Phoenix? I looked on line and the only 1" external latex I can find is at Sleep Like a Bear. However, to get a comparable cover to the BE with the wool layer, it would actually cost over $400 for the cover alone from Sleep Like a Bear. Do I need this quality cover or would a cheaper cotton/poly blend stretch cover be sufficient?

So–I guess my main question is will 6" solid feel better than two 3" pieces? Is it worth spending the extra $500 from BE? (Henry says he can get me Talalay but I don’t know if he can get me a 6" solid piece. I assume he can get me the same ILD as in the Dunlop). The cover on the Berkeley Ergo is a nicer cover than Henry’s but not worth $500 IMO.

By the way, Henry even told me to ask you if the extra $500 for the BE mattress can be justified. I should say that for me there was a small but noticeable difference in increased comfort with the BE mattress, but I’m not sure if it was due to the 6" solid core or the 42 ILD Talalay versus the 41" Dunlop at Flexus. I think Henry told me he gets his Talalay from Radium, same as BE does now, but I didn’t try the Talalay core at Flexus since he didn’t have it on the floor or in his back room. He did say he can get Talalay though if I want in place of the Dunlop core.

So I guess my question comes down to the difference in feel of two 3" cores versus one 6" core, which will wear better, which will compress more and lose it’s current feel sooner (D or T), and should I get an external 1" topper for the extra comfort for my occasional side sleeping?

Phoenix, thanks so much in advance and thanks for your amazing dedication to this website (although it sure adds to the analysis paralysis factor if you’re a research nut like me).

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Sorry for being so wordy and repeating myself over and over!

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Hi samoca,

That’s never a problem (I can certainly be the same) … and I’ll try and break it down to its most important parts :).

[quote]So I’ve tried many beds here and even in Berkeley, CA at Euro Sleepworks (and thank you for steering us LA people to Flexus–Henry opened specially for me on Sunday a week or so ago so I could get there in an hour with no traffic from Santa Monica). I should say that I almost always like the same setup: A really firm core with a soft but fairly thin upper layer. It was clear to me that I preferred the firmest core Henry had–the 41" Dunlop with the 2" Talalay. 3" comfort layer didn’t feel right (although it was better when I was on my left side but not my right). I really preferred the 2" comfort layer over the 3". Price for the queen bed mattress is $1450 (minus 5% Mattress Underground discount–yay!)

My comparison is with a Berkeley Ergonomics 6" solid Talalay core of 42 (specially ordered from BE for me at Goodnight Mattress in Redondo Beach. Didn’t know if you knew that they now carry the Berkeley Ergo line–closest place to me in Santa Monica by far). The topper was 2" softer Talalay. I liked this somewhat better than Flexus setup and even better again with a 1" covered latex external topper (price $550 minus 10% discount–so $550 with tax). This 6" Talalay core plus 2" comfort layer was better on my side both with and without the external topper.[/quote]

The most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in order of priority are in post #13 here. As you can see PPP is always first because no matter how durable a mattress may be if you don’t sleep well on it then it would have little value to you. This is the part where your own testing comes into play and the reasons “why” one mattress or material is a better match for you isn’t nearly as important as the fact that it is. Neither one of these mattresses have any weak links but it appears that you prefer the feel and response of a Talalay support core vs a Dunlop support core. Of course there also isn’t any reason that you can’t have both a great match in terms of PPP and in terms of durability because one isn’t mutually exclusive of the other.

Yes … it’s included in their description in the Los Angeles list here and they are also included in the list of BE dealers here. Of course I always appreciate the members here letting me know about any changes they know about so I can keep the lists up to date.

This is a preference not a better/worse choice and it would depend on the overall design goals of the mattress and the “feel” you were going for. The basic choice would be between a quilted cover of some type or a knit cover that stretches and affects the “feel” of the latex less. Assuming that you prefer a stretch cover for your topper that allows more of the feel and performance of the latex to come through … I would lean towards either a natural fiber such as cotton because it is more breathable and wicks and absorbs moisture better than a synthetic fiber or a “semi synthetic” fiber such as viscose or bamboo because it also does a great job at wicking and absorbing moisture and also “feels” good. The pros and cons of different mattress covers would also apply to topper covers and there is more about different types of quilted vs non quilted covers in post #12 here and the posts it links to and there is more about the properties of different types of fibers and fabrics in post #7 here (which is about sheets but the information is just as relevant for mattress or topper covers).

The component post here includes the better sources I’m aware of for latex toppers and covers. There are several that sell 1" Talalay latex layers including KTT Enterprises, and Mattresses.net along with Sleeplikeabear.

If the two 3" pieces are the same type and blend of latex and the same ILD as the 6" core and there are comfort layers on top of them and the mattress cover is the same then in practical terms they would feel the same (even though in “theory” two identical 3" cores would “act” a little softer, it wouldn’t be enough for most people to notice any difference). If one or more of the two 3" layers are a different type or blend of latex or a different ILD then they would feel different but “how much” different would depend on the specifics, the body type, sleeping positions, and sensitivity of the person, and the other layers that are part of the complete sleeping system.

That would depend on whether you would also have access to all the other layers and components that make up the BE mattress (including a cover that was functionally the same or very similar because the cover is a significant part of the feel and performance of a mattress) because every layer will affect the feel and performance of all the other layers. If you have access to the same type and blend of Talalay (and BE uses Radium Talalay) and you are confident that all the other layers and components would also be the same then it may not be worth it. If on the other hand if they would still be “different enough” from each other that you would be likely to notice a meaningful difference between them that was important to you then it probably wouldn’t be worth it (if one was significantly better in terms of PPP).

I would keep in mind that ILD in Dunlop may be different from the same ILD in Talalay both because of differences in the type of latex itself, the consistency of the ILD in each layer, and the accuracy of the measurements (see post #6 here) and also because there is more involved in how soft or firm a material feels than just ILD alone (see post #4 here).

I would treat them as being equivalent in terms of durability but either the same or different in terms of feel and performance (depending on whether the two 3" layers are identical to the 6" core).

This would be a preference choice but you could always just start with the mattress and then use your sleeping experience to decide whether to add an additional topper.

Thanks for the kind words … and hopefully this will help you focus on your actual experience more than the specs because all of your choices are good ones in terms of quality and durability.

Phoenix