Two-Sided Latex + Pocketed Coils - Huge Sag After 5 Nights?

I purchased a mattress from a local mattress manufacturer who is a member of, and highly recommended on this site,

We went with a flippable matteress - 2.5" dunlop latex (medium firmness) on each side, and pocketed coils (quantum?) as the middle. The latex layers were sewn in to act as a “pillow top” (not that we preferred that, but they said it was the norm).

We received the mattress a week and a half ago. The first night was AMAZING. However, after 5 nights the latex had sunken in roughly 1.5" in the areas that my wife and I sleep. We proceeded to rotate the mattress, and that side ALSO sunk in to roughly 1.5" after the first night.

We called the manufacturer, who suggested to flip the mattress to see if just the one side of latex had a defect. We measured the indent right after flipping, but before sleeping - there was virtually none. We woke up this morning, measured, and found a new indent of roughly 1.25"! Now, my wife and I are not heavy people. I am 170 lbs, and my wife is about 120 lbs. The manufacturer came out today to take a look at what was going on. They inspected the bed frame (king), and found that there was adequate support underneath the bed (extra leg?), and that the box springs were also in good shape.

After checking it out, the manufacturer agreed that this was not normal, and said they would let us pick a new mattress. I was happy to hear this, but they added that we probably shouldn’t use a medium density latex + pocketed coils, because “it might be too soft for us”. Now, we like a medium-soft bed, so I was surprised to hear this. Soft is one thing, but 1.5" impressions after just a few nights does NOT seem a case of it being “too soft”. It seems that there could be a manufacturing defect in the latex and/or coils?

Should we do a different two-sided combination (we WANT two sided/flippable - one of the main benefits of working with a local company), or should we suggest to the manufacturer that they use a different batch of latex/coils? Or maybe ask them not to sew in as a “pillow top” style?

We really like the fact that it would be two-sided, we really liked the feel of the coils and we also like the benefits of the latex, but we DO NOT want to have this new mattress sag so much again so quickly. We don’t want to have them create a new one, only for this to happen again. Is a two-sided latex + pocketed coils always going to sag this much?

Any suggestions? Should we have them make the same thing again (and hope the batch of latex/coils is not the same? Or go with firmer latex on top and keep pocketed coils? Or go with foam on top and keep pocketed coils?? Go with latex and foam base instead of coils? Etc.

Really at a loss here. Any insight would be greatly appreciated…

Here are a few photos to give you an idea:

Sag after 5 nights:
Google Photos

After Flipping (before sleeping):
Google Photos

After Flipping + 1 night sleep:
Google Photos

Latex Pillow Top View:
Google Photos

Hi cwise 10,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

I’m sorry, but with the information you’re providing and the type of photos you’re providing I can’t really provide much specific information.

Regarding the mattress, you’re not providing the complete specifications of all layers, so I can’t speak to what else is in the mattress that might be contributing to the issue that is causing you a concern. If you have complete specifications of all of the layers, that would be assistive.

I also can’t tell from one of your photos (pillowtop view) if the “pillowtop” is permanently attached to the mattress or a piece placed on top of it. A side view would be more assistive. Also, with the “depression” photos, the photo is with a fitted sheet (and I would suppose mattress pad) on top of the product, which wouldn’t be an accurate way to measure any impressions, and the one measurement is right above one of the quilted points, which isn’t where you measure impressions, so it would be helpful to see the impressions photos without all of the sheets off of the product for a more accurate representation.

It is normal for some “settling in” of a mattress to occur when it is new, but again without knowing the actual materials I can’t speak too directly to this, only generally. With a bit of a softer or medium product, there could be some artificial loft which is settling where you are using the product and would also settle over time in the middle and the edges of the mattress (obviously more quickly with some use in those areas and flipping), but again this is just a general statement, and it depends upon how tightly or loosely the “pillowtop panel” is affixed to the product. And sometimes top quilt panels can be cut too large and have excess play in them. I know this is all general non-specific information, but it is not something normal for a piece of latex or the springs to “fail” or impress after a few weeks of use, so there is something else in play in this situation.

Also, what are you using for a foundation (is it a true coil box spring?) and support system under the foundation of your mattress? I know they looked at it for you, but I’m just curious. This can have an impact on how the mattress performs (I know, lots of questions).

I can’t predict this for you, as I don’t have a baseline to know what is actually in your product or how it is configured, so unfortunately I can’t comment upon the quality of the materials.

Their suggestion that you choose something that is a bit firmer may be that with the manner in which they configure their products there is some initial “settling in” and they are suggesting you choose something that doesn’t do this as much. Again, this is just speculation on my part.

Without more information on the exact makeup of your mattress, I can’t be more specific in my thoughts.

Phoenix

Thanks so much, Phoenix. I appreciate the insight.

The mattress specs are

2.5" medium ILD dunlop latex blend (they didn’t provide actual ILD numbers or what the blend % is)
8" / 9" leggett and pratt quantum coil pocketed coils (they didn’t provide coil count or wire gauge)
2.5" medium ILD dunlop latex blend latex (they didn’t provide actual ILD numbers or what the blend % is)

I was also not told what the make up of the top quilted cover is, or if there’s anything additional in that. The entire thing is about 16", so I’m assuming the quilted cover is about 1" to an 1.5" on each side, since it’s flippable.

This is literally all the information they provided me - no additional details in the work order. The tag on the mattress says nothing more other than blended latex and other textiles. Probably because this particular setup was outsourced.

To answer the other questions:

The pillowtop is permanently attached on both sides (it’s flippable). It doesn’t line up particularly well, though.

The box spring is a mix of wood and metal. It is not actual coils. I guess it would be a “flex” box spring? It came with and made for the sealy posturepedic I bought about 8 years ago.

The box spring sits on top of the king bed frame with three horizontal wooden support slats and three vertical center legs that run through the middle of the bed from the foot to the head.

There is no mattress pad in those photos. We were waiting on it to arrive before putting it on.

I’ve included additional pictures of the side, as well as without the sheet on top. I made sure the tape measure was not in any of the indents.

Side view - https://photos.app.goo.gl/mSVyK80jTdbSXSgb2
Side 2 - https://photos.app.goo.gl/eyJnHs7pWK6oyIXb2
Side 3 - https://photos.app.goo.gl/2quP8LARry35fx132
Sag - https://photos.app.goo.gl/LRCTwZimRHwVf4Ka2
Sag 2 - https://photos.app.goo.gl/QpY60PifPZ1P5ZQT2
Sag 3 - https://photos.app.goo.gl/d0X8NCjCAtggjt1u1
Showing box + frame - https://photos.app.goo.gl/38SyFNroyOQiESDo1

Keep in mind, I literally flipped this two days ago, and I’ve only slept on this for a total of 8 nights (5 days the way it came, 1 day rotated, 2 days flipped). So these pics reflect two days of sleeping on that side for the first time…the other side after 5 nights was about almost 0.5" worse.

I visited the manufacturer today (who has been great, so this post is not a knock on them in any way/shape/form), and they told me that this is one of the only products they don’t actually manufacture in house. That might explain part of this…

They suggested we go with a different setup consisting of:

3" 2.5lb “soy foam”
8" / 9" leggett and pratt quantum coil pocketed coils (they said it’s the same system as what I have now, but a higher wire gauge?)
3" 2.5lb “soy foam”

The new setup would be well over $1,000 more. According to them, the “soy foam” is significantly better than standard poly foam, so I don’t need as dense of a comfort layer on each side? In fact, they stated that the absolute heaviest they even offer is 3.5lb? Everything I’ve read on this forum has insinuated that “soy foam” or “bio form” has no real benefits over standard poly foam, so now I’m even more confused…especially because this is adding well over $1,000 to the cost of the setup I already have.

I would tell you the brand name of this new setup being proposed (“chiropract…” is included), but I don’t want this to reflect on that company in any negative way. I’ve had a great experience with them so far, and some things are out of their control…especially because this was not made by them (which I just learned today).

Thanks again for all of your help. This forum is the reason I went with the manufacturer I did (and I let them know the same).

Hi cwise10,

Thanks for the additional photos. Those are more helpful.

This quilt panel and the pillowtop would be the area where you are getting your “settling”, if I had to hazard a guess. There is definitely something quilted to the cover (this would not be the Dunlop latex), and there may be additional foam as well. You wouldn’t generally get any sort of “settling” with Dunlop of pocketed springs in just a few days. With that being said, what you show seems to be similar to what you would find in settling of a quite plush product, depending upon the tightness of the pillowtop panel (it does seem to be offset on that one side) and the materials being used, especially if they were lower density foams or quite a bit of softer fiber. Using a straightedge would be a better way to measure your dips, as a measuring tape can bow a bit. Assuming that there is some fiber and softer polyfoam in this product, “some” initial settling and body impressions would be considered normal. But without knowing exactly what is in the upper comfort layers of the mattress and being in front of it, I can’t comment in a much more definitive manner.

This would be a “semi-flex” foundation, and even if in good shape I’d tell you to consider replacing it, as after ten years or so there tends to be fatigue in those semi-flex modules and they can sag just a bit. You’d want to keep an eye on yours.

It sounds like you have a good frame under the foundations.

[quote]3" 2.5lb “soy foam”
8" / 9" leggett and pratt quantum coil pocketed coils (they said it’s the same system as what I have now, but a higher wire gauge?)
3" 2.5lb “soy foam”[/quote]

In post #2 here I describe in more detail the use plant based polyols in polyfoam. In a nutshell, part of the polyol portion used to create polyurethane foam is replaced with a plant-based polyol. There’s a brief explanation of this from one of the polyol manufacturers here. The 2.5 lb poly foam would be a good quality material. With the Leggett and Platt spring Quantum spring unit, there are many different designs, and using a thicker gauge steel would generally result in a more supportive unit, but there may also be differences in the zoning, type of pocketed spring and number of springs as well. The spring unit is rarely the “weak link” within the mattress.

The use of a “soy foam” (most polyfoam pourers are replacing part of their petroleum-based polyols with bioh polyols) wouldn’t by itself make the foam better, although it may be that in their case their bioh foam is better than the “standard” that they offer. But a 2.5 lb polyfoam is generally considered a high quality polyfoam.

I can’t speak to the pricing of the product, but you’d want to know of every single layer within the mattress you’re choosing before determining what has the best value for you. While price is certainly important of course … the “value” of a mattress purchase is what is most important and price is just one of many factors that can affect the “value” of a mattress purchase. There isn’t a “formula” that can be used to assess or “calculate” the value of a mattress because there are so many different variables and criteria involved that can affect the price of a mattress that can each be more or less important to some people and not to others who may have completely different criteria or definitions of “value”. The value of a mattress purchase is also relative to how a mattress compares to the other finalists you are considering or to other mattresses that are available to you in your area (or online if you are also considering online options). There are many reasons that a mattress that may be “good value” for one person or in one area of the country may not be good value for someone else that has very different needs and preferences or that lives in a different area.

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

[quote]I would tell you the brand name of this new setup being proposed (“chiropract…” is included), but I don’t want this to reflect on that company in any negative way. I’ve had a great experience with them so far, and some things are out of their control…especially because this was not made by them (which I just learned today).
Thanks again for all of your help. This forum is the reason I went with the manufacturer I did (and I let them know the same [/quote]

I’m happy that you’ve been treated well and are being allowed to change to a different product.

Phoenix

Thanks again, Phoenix!

The fact that the settling/depression could be in the quilted liner, not the latex, makes a lot of sense.

We are going to follow the manufacturer’s suggestion - upgraded pocketed coil (quantum edge with lower gauge wiring) + the 2.5 lb “soy foam” on each side. Even though it’s quite a bit more expensive, they said that this “soy foam” is substantially better than regular poly foam at the same density/weight (2.5 lb), so I don’t have much choice other than to give them the benefit of the doubt. They have done me right so far.

We are also going with a brand new foundation when we swap this mattress out. Better to be safe, plus it’s more convenient to have the mattress and the foundation on the same replacement schedule.

You and your insightful posts in this fantastic forum have been a tremendous help throughout this entire process! Would have never even thought to check out some of the local mattress manufacturers, otherwise. Keep up the great work!

Hi cwise10,

Thanks for the kind words. I’ll be interested in learning how your new mattress turns out once you’ve had a chance to sleep upon it for a while.

Phoenix

No problem, Phoenix! I will absolutely keep you posted.

:wink:

Just a quick update - the manufacturer delivered a replacement mattress TWO DAYS! after my last post. Not only were they extremely quick and helpful when it came to the replacement, but they also upgraded us to a 3 lb foam at no extra cost to make up for the inconvenience. So far so good - no sagging whatsoever! The mattress is definitely firmer, and I will post another update in a month or two regarding how it’s feeling and holding up. All I can say is that I am utterly amazed with the outstanding customer service of this mattress manufacturer in Volusia County, Florida. I now know why they are a recommended vendor/member of this site!

Oh, and last question - in addition to the new box springs, we are going to purchase a new frame. Do you have any suggestions on what to look for? The mattress is the pocket coils + the flippable soy foam. Wasn’t sure if we should go with the standard steel frame, or for a low profile platform, or something else. Will it make much of a difference? Examples below:

Standard frame - Amazon.com

Low pro platform - Bed Bath & Beyond | The Best Deals Online: Furniture, Bedding, Rugs, Kitchen Essentials & Moree

Hi cwise10,

I’m happy to hear that your substitute mattress arrived so quickly and that you are happy with it so far. :cheer: I’ll look forward to your future updates.

As for the appropriate foundation or platform bed, I would check with your manufacturer for the accepted style of foundation that they would prefer you use. And if you decide to choose a platform bed, ask about the minimal spacing between cross slats that they recommend. That would be the most important guidance.

As for the bed frame, you do need a center reinforcement, but I personally prefer something with a wider head-to-toe center support mechanism instead of the particular side to side to you linked to.

Phoenix