I am new to the forum and am certainly impressed by the amount of quality mattress info. available. After much research and reading through the overviews I’m leaning towards buying a Ultimate Dreams Total Latex Mattress, primarily because I tested a Berkeley Ergonomics all latex mattress with the same components, or very close to them (i.e., 6" of 36 ILD talalay latex below 2" of 22 ILD talalay latex), that I my wife and I really enjoyed - that happened to be 3-4x more expensive. The Ultimate Dreams has 3" but the Berkeley has an additional 1-2" topper of 22 ILD latex. The option to switch out layers is attractive to me. I have two questions:
Does anyone know if there are differences between the quality, or any other attributes, between the two company’s latex? I would assume so given the cost difference. I’m certainly not expecting an exact match but a general similarity.
Are there any other companies that I should be looking at that have better quality at my price point (i.e., I’m looking between $1500-$2500).
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated and thanks again, especially Phoenix, for the amazing amount of information!
Also, don’t know if it matters but I’m 6’3"170 and my wife is 5’7" 120 in Los Angeles…
The Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams Total Latex offers a 6" core of 32 or 36 ILD blended Talalay latex from Talalay Global (a Dunlop core may be substituted if desired). The upper 3" layer can be swapped out and ordered in various plushnesses of the same Talalay latex. You would phone Dreamfoam Bedding prior to placing an order to determine which plushness (ILD) they think would work best for you. There is a quilt panel with a small amount of polyfoam and wool above the top latex layer. There is an innerpanel between the 6" core and the upper 3" latex layers. I don’t know the exact ILD Dreamfoam would offer for their comfort recommendations of their upper 3" latex layer. They use a 1-10 scale, with 1 being hardest and 10 being softest. In the past they’ve offered 19, 24, 28 and 32 ILDs, and have listed 28 ILD as a 6 on their comfort scale and 32 ILD as a 4 on their comfort scale.
The Berkeley Ergonomics (BE) mattress you tested would be using 100% Natural Talalay latex from Vita Talalay. This mattress you tested uses the same 6" thickness in the core (the BE core can be zoned or non-zoned) as the Dreamfoam, but 2" of Talalay on top versus 3" for the Deamfoam mattress. The cover it uses is organic cotton quilted to organic wool.
Both of the mattresses you asked about use durable and good quality materials.
You can see more about the differences between synthetic (SBR) and natural (NR) rubber in post #2 here.
There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. As I think you’re already aware, every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).
If you do decide to go with the Ultimate Dreams … I don’t know exactly how their softness rating system works (which ILD they use for each number) but they would be in the best position to give you great advice on the best choice based on your local testing and feedback. A “typical” ILD choice for the comfort layer of a latex mattress would be in the 19 - 24 range with some going softer down to as low as 14 and some going as high as 32. With the quilting foam in the Ultimate Dreams … it would give it a little softer feel than just the ILD of the latex itself. It would effectively bring the ILD down a bit. Dreamfoam is a member here, which means that I think highly of them, their advice and their products.
If you’re looking to consider other options, I would suggest you take a look at the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex component mattresses included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.
I don’t know if you can help me out but I recently purchased the 10" Sleep EZ bed, which is great. I’m tall and about 175 6’4" and like a somewhat firm, supportive mattress. They suggested I go with a soft, medium, firm all talalay. It was too soft for me and my lower back hurt a bit. I changed to a medium, medium, firm, borrowing a medium layer from my wife, and it works relatively well for my back. I do miss the feeling of softness but would like a little more support. Do you have any suggestions as to what layers I could use? Would a soft talalay, firm dunlop, and extra firm dunlop be a good fit? Obviously, I can understand how it would be difficult for you to answer, but if you have learned anything from the experiences of your mattress forum memebers I would appreciate it. Thx!
Can you tell me all of the layers you have available to “experiment with” at home? You are correct that predicting what might be best for you via an online forum isn’t possible, but I might be able to offer some “tests” that could point you in a certain direction with what you have on hand.
It’s been a while and I’m still working on layering for my Sleep EZ bed. I can’t seem to find a combo that works for my back…which is odd. From what I understand, lower back pain is a sign of a too soft mattress and upper back pain or joint pain is a sign of a too hard mattress. I’ve tried most combinations -
Soft-Medium Firm way to soft
Medium-Firm-Soft i forget how this felt but there was some lower back pain.
Firm-Soft-Medium lower back pain and it was a bit firm from a comfort level. Has for one week.
Medium-Medium-Firm had a little lower back pain
Soft-Firm-Medium -best option but I still get lower back pain Have had this configuration a couple of weeks.
All in talalay and can’t always have some sort of, mostly lower, back pain. The best combo thus far is Soft-Firm-Medium but after a week or so I get lower back pain. I’ve ordered a Medium Dunlop and Firm Dunlop to try more combos but am getting pretty frustrated. I’m thinking that maybe latex is just not an option for me. I’ve never had back pain with a bed (i.e., Sleep number, high end tempurpedic and many innerspring mattresses.)
Tonight I will try medium dunlop, Medium talalay, and firm talalay I guess. I need a bit firmer than the Soft-Firm-Medium. May just scrap the whole thing and buy an innerspring/latex hybrid. If you have any experience or suggestions as to what can be done please let me know. I know I’m supposed to give each configuration a week or so but there’s only so much back pain that I can deal with.
I think you may be referring to post #2 here , with some of the most common pain symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them. Low back issues can be from a lack of deep support or too soft or too thick comfort layers. Upper back issues can be from too thick upper layers, causing rounding or excessive sinking, as well as from surface layers that are too hard or an improper pillow. There really are quite a few reasons for symptoms in both areas.
You seem to be getting slightly better results with firmer options in the upper two layers. As soft-firm-medium is your best so far, I would try to use that as a basis for starting and test next by going soft-firm-firm and see if the firmer deep down support was the missing link. If that wasn’t better, I would try medium (Talalay)-firm-medium(Dunlop), going with a slightly firmer top layer and see if that’s better.
You are correct that changing layers so quickly makes it more difficult to truly analyze each configuration, but I understand your back pain.
Hopefully you get a bit more data from those choices and you can see if they move you in a better direction.
We’ll try a couple more combos. I’m going right to Medium Talalay-Firm Dunlop-Firm Talalay. I’d rather start with a firmer combination and go soft than start soft and go firm. I’ve had a few weeks of lower back pain. If this combination doesn’t work than I think we’re throwing in the towel on full latex. It’s such a great idea in theory (i.e., very customizable, relatively natural, presumably naturally intuitive support, etc.). I’m just not getting the same supportive feeling that I’ve gotten from all other mattresses I’ve had in the past and I’m losing patience with trying to figure out the right combination.
I probably would have a better experience if I had a 1" or 2" top layer. The 3" I think is too thick of a comfort layer for me to go through before I hit the support layer.
Also, not that I have the patience to try it out, but an adjustable slat system seems like it would help. This is, again, in theory. It may just add another variable leading deeper down the rabbit hole.
