Upper back/rib pain and foam

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

We’re in the market for a new mattress, and in attempt #1 went with the Casper. While it worked well for my partner, and actually worked well for most of my body (e.g. lower back), after a few nights I started to develop a lot of soreness and inflammation in my upper back (where the ribs meet the spine), particularly when lying on my back. When lying on my back, it felt like my ribs were in a constant state of being pulled on. I’m trying to understand just what about the mattress might be causing this, so I can pick a better option in round #2. I.e., whether this ‘sinking in’ or ‘hunched feeling’ of the mattress from just being too soft, or the viscoelastic memory foam component, or both? It’s clear I need more upper back support, but I don’t want to go so firm it’s uncomfortable for my partner, or the rest of my body - as I sleep on my side as well and the Casper felt great for that. I’m considering the Sleep on Latex in either firm or medium, and wonder if the elastic qualities of latex might be better in general than the memory foam? Or if an all-foam bed is just not a good option? Wondering if anyone has experienced this type of pain and what types of beds worked well.

Thanks for any advice!

2

Hi Gonzo72,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

I’m sorry about you not liking your Casper mattress. I’ll do my best to provide some suggestions based upon the information you provided, but unfortunately I’m unable to diagnose specific back/pain issues via an online forum.

First off, there is some information about the many different symptoms that people may experience on a mattress and some of the most common causes behind them in post #2 here that may be helpful.

You didn’t mention how long you tested out your Casper mattress, as everyone has a degree of “learned alignment” that they generally need to overcome when trying out a new product. Hopefully you tried out the mattress long enough to rule that out.

I’m not sure exactly where in your upper back you’re referencing the pain, as the ribs articulate the 12 thoracic vertebrae, but if you’re experiencing pain in the upper part of that region along the lateral borders of your vertebrae where your ribs articulate, that could be an issue with your pillow being too thick for your new mattress setup, placing stress on your upper back and erector spinae group. It could also be an issue that you are sinking more than you desire or are used to, and this could also cause you some issues. It could also come down to your own personal sensitivities or level of flexibility/strength. Or it could be a combination of all of these things, among others.

In cases like this, your initial hunch is usually quite worthy of consideration, so as you mentioned you may want to investigate something that has a bit more surface resilience, but still with good contouring properties. Latex certainly can be a good alternative to memory foam in this area, as latex is very point elastic (contours well without pulling from the surrounding area), but it also can be a very supportive material, whether in a combination with al all-latex mattress, one using innersprings, or even one using a good quality polyfoam core.

If you do consider Sleep On Latex, they are a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations, and I would not hesitate to have a detailed phone conversation with them to explain your past experience and receive suggestions that they may proffer.

Phoenix

3

Just to give a quick update: we ordered and received (very quickly!) a Sleep on Latex in the medium firmness, per their recommendation after a quick email exchange.

We’re only on night 3 of sleeping on it, but initial impressions are: 1) I have not experienced the upper back pain that I was having on the memory foam (Casper). The latex seem to have a more ‘buoyant’ feel to it, and/or maybe doesn’t ‘creep’ as much (i.e. the viscoelastic softening). Not as much of a stuck feeling like you can get with the memory foam. Whatever it is, so far so good. (2) For me, the top layer of this medium firmness mattress might be too soft - not sure yet. Feels like maybe there isn’t quite enough support in my lower back and it just feels really, really soft to me - but my partner feels if anything it’s on the stiffer side. So could be differences in our weight (which isn’t that great - ~175 vs 130 lbs) or maybe just sensitivity/preference, but there’s something a bit different about the feel of latex. I’m sleeping ok and not sore, but still a little unsure.

Thanks for all the information!

4

Hi Gonzo72,

Congratulations on your new Sleep on Latex mattress! :cheer: You certainly made a good quality/value choice.

I’m glad that you’re initially sleeping better on your new mattress. You are correct that latex is more resilient, supportive and buoyant feeling than memory foam.

As for the plushness, as it’s only been a short time experiencing this new mattress, I would recommend taking some more time allowing yourself to lose some of your “learned alignment” and also allow the mattress to adjust a bit to you before making any final decisions on changing comfort preferences. Latex is quite point elastic, so it can be a bit deceptive in the support that it offers.

The most important thing is that you are sleeping better with less soreness, and I hope that continues as you adjust to your new sleep set.

Phoenix

5

Well, after about a week, the feeling of lack of support in my lower back (when lying on my back) has started to manifest itself in some true lower back/lumbar soreness. Frustrating! I realize it’s still relatively early, but I’m wondering - is this lack of lower back support due to too soft of a top layer? I don’t want to sleep on a rock, and my partner is doing ok with this mattress (as she was with our previous attempt, the Casper) but I’m wondering if the firm version of this mattress might be better for me… Or perhaps an all-latex mattress is not the answer.

6

SoL suggested we might want to try to add a medium (30 ILD) topper to stiffen up the mattress slightly. But I’m wondering if that will just be putting a band aid on something that isn’t fundamentally right. Not sure if anyone has experience in that area. Thanks!

7

Hi Gonzo72,

I don’t know if what you’re experiencing is a “lack of support”, a comfort issue, or simply your body adjusting to a new mattress. The product you’ve chosen uses a firm support core, so at your weight this wouldn’t normally be the issue. Placing firmer comfort layer (30 vs current 20 ILD) on top of your mattress would be a “dominant layer” construction that is commonly used for people who desire a bit more of a “crisp” or taut surface comfort, but don’t want to feel like they are “sleeping on a rock”, as you described. It certainly could be a viable alternative to try, but I would speak with SOL before making any decision to see what your options might be if you don’t like the topper with your current mattress and might desire to sample their firmer model. The concern I would have it with your sensitivity in your rib area, which I don’t know is more of a surface comfort sensitivity along the body of the rib, or if it is an issue with where the ribs articulate with your spine, which can be influenced not only by surface comfort but also deep support, along with your own levels of strength and flexibility.

Phoenix

8

Well, just to update again (in the remote case that anyone is actually following this…) - we did some experimenting, and I believe have confirmed your excellent thought about surface sensitivity:
After emailing a bit more with the SOL person, we tried flipping the mattress and sleeping directly on the stiffer surface (which should be around ILD=34), just to get an idea of what kind of difference this might make if we were to add a medium (ILD=30) topper. Sleeping on this very much solved my lower back support issue (it immediately felt better laying on my back), but also quickly (within 1 night) re-aggravated my rib/back soreness, in a similar way to the Casper. Going back to the soft side up (after being out of town for a few nights in between), it was immediately clear that these issues were then reversed (upper great, lower not so great). So at least I’ve learned something (!). It seems I need something on the surface that is soft enough for my upper back, but something relatively supportive not too far underneath to provide enough support. Which I guess is similar to our current mattress that has been working ok (but old). I wonder now if something like their firm mattress (2" 30ILD, 6" 44ILD) topped with a 1" soft topper (20ILD) might work.

I really didn’t realize I was this sensitive. (I’m otherwise a fairly fit, healthy middle-aged individual… or so I thought!) Or perhaps there isn’t a latex solution and we need to look into hybrid or inner spring mattresses that have a different feel. (I realize there is adjustment time for new systems, but this sort of pain, with inflammation and numbness in my arms or legs (depending on the hard or soft side) during the day after sleeping on one or the other, and which shows no signs of getting better, only worse, doesn’t seem productive).

Anyway, thanks again for your expert advice and we’ll keep searching!

9

Hi Gonzo72,

It does seem that you desire a bit more surface firmness, but still allowing some “bending in” to assist with your rib sensitivities. I would still be interested in how you would respond with your current configuration using the 30 ILD topper over the 20 ILD, as this would provide a bit more of the surface firmness that you responded well too, but not as firm overall as the 6" of 34 ILD when you flipped your current mattress over. It seems that the “deep support” isn’t your issue as much as the “surface support”. There is also more about primary or “deep” support and secondary or “surface” support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the “roles” of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between “support” and “pressure relief” and “feel” that may be useful as well.

Phoenix