Vancouver, BC

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hi,

I’ve recently become overwhelmed with the selection of mattress choices from major and local stores here in Vancouver. I laid on an iComfort Insight and love it, but I don’t like the sticker price or the “deal” that was offered (1450 for queen/boxspring/frame). My haggling skill is also pretty poor when I go alone ;P.

I found two “off-brand” products that I am not sure the quality. One mattress was imported by Primo International from south east Asia. It was described as having 2.5" layer of 5lb foam ontop of polyurethane. ~Queen $500 including base and frame.
The other mattress was made by Renelle - Visco 5400. ~Queen $1200.

Guidance? I am 5’6 ~ 130lb. I typically sleep on my back.

2

Hi Kroppe,

I would tend to be a little hesitant on the Primo. On their website all of their mattresses use 3lb or less memory foam and while there are many listed on the internet at either 4.75 or 5 lb … I would tend toward skepticism, especially if I don’t know who manufactures their foam and not knowing if it is CertiPur certified. There are some local manufacturers that would be well worth including in your research.

http://www.discountfoam.ca/ Local foam shop in Vancouver that also makes and sells foam mattresses. Has talalay and dunlop layers available in different firmness levels, memory foam, and any quality of polyform you may wish. Also has various cover options available. Has mattresses and layers available for testing. He is very knowledgeable about all types of foam and believes in simplicity (which I like). Some good value.

renelle.com Wholesale manufacturer in Surrey. They make a range of good quality foam mattresses including memory foam and latex mattresses sold under their Viscoform, Natures Embrace and Noizzless lines that are sold through the retail outlets listed in their retail store finder.

http://www.majesticfuton.com/ Retailer in Vancouver. They are a main retail store for Renelle. They are knowledgeable and experienced and carry a range of mattresses from Renelle including organic Dunlop latex mattresses, latex/polyfoam hybrids, memory foam mattresses, and polyfoam mattresses that would certainly be well worth considering.

http://www.rcb.ca/ Local factory direct manufacturer in Surrey. They specialize in marine mattresses but they are also happy to make any kind of foam mattress a customer may wish using high grade polyfoam, memory foam, or latex. they have examples that can be tested in different layers to get to the build and feel you want. Well worth including in your research.

http://www.kasonmattress.com/ Local manufacturer in Vancouver. They make a range of pocket coil mattresses using 5 zone pocket coils and polyfoam, memory foam, microcoil, and latex comfort layers. Make sure you can find out the density of any memory foam or polyfoam layers in their mattresses.

http://www.inbedorganics.com/ Local manufacturer in Vancouver who produces high quality organic and natural Dunlop latex mattresses. They have a list of outlets on their site. The owner Jen is great to talk with and committed to the organic cause and is determined to help educate people about the benefits of using organic materials in their mattresses although I would do some value comparisons.

http://snugsleep.com/ Local wholesale manufacturer in North Vancouver which has a list of outlets that sell them on their site. They are made with 100% natural Dunlop latex. High quality but also a little pricey and another one where I would do some good value comparisons.

http://foamandhomedecor.com/index.php Local factory direct manufacturer in Surrey who manufactures a range of memory foam and latex mattresses. They use 3, 4, and 5 lb memory foam (and I would avoid 3 lbs). These can be customized for preference.

http://www.foamshop.com/ North Vancouver, Port Coquitlam, Kitsilano, Langley, Richmond, Abbotsford, Burnaby, Surrey. They carry polyfoam mattresses made with 1.8 lb, 2.0lb, and 2.5 lb polyfoam (none of these are low quality and would be good, better, best) and convoluted polyfoam along with 3 lb and 5 lb memory foam that can be added as a topper but not as part of the mattress (I would avoid 3 lb memory foam). They can also mix and match their foams. They also have a choice of cover. They can get latex but would have to special order it and didn’t know what type it was and didn’t appear to be very knowledgeable about it. They have “fair” prices but there may be better so I would make some good comparisons.

http://vancouverfoam.com/ Another local foam shop in Vancouver that also makes mattresses including latex (Dunlop and Talalay), memory foam, and polyfoam that may be well worth considering.

https://www.northshorelinens.com/product-category/natural-latex-products/ North Vancouver. They carry a line of 100% natural latex mattresses that use 100% natural Dunlop made by Arpico and have very reasonable prices.

http://www.innovativesleep.ca/ Retailer in Surrey. I talked with Dave one of the owners here and they carry Nature’s Embrace organic latex, Restonic (including latex and memory foam) and two sided Eclipse mattresses. Low key approach to selling mattresses and will provide or find out any information about the quality of the materials that their customers need to make an informed choice.

http://wrmattress.com/ Retailer in Surrey. They carry Savvy Rest (component latex mattresses) along with Ironman mattresses, Kingsdown, and Restwell. I have talked with them and they are knowledgeable about mattress materials and told me that they would find out any information that their customers need to know about the type and quality/density of the materials in their mattresses.

www.greenworksbuildingsupply.com Retailer in Vancouver, BC. They carry Sleeptek mattresses which are a line of high quality latex mattresses that use certified organic Dunlop latex. They are transparent about the materials and components in their mattresses.

http://www.dreamdesigns.ca/ Retailer in Vancouver, BC. They carry Snugsleep latex mattresses and their own line of Dream Bed futons.

http://mclearys.com/ Retailer in Langley, BC. They carry Snugsleep and Renelle latex mattresses. Their private label Sleep Fitness line may also be worth considering if they will provide the specs of the foam layers in the mattresses.

http://www.mrmattress.ca/ Retailer in Vancouver. They carry a range of locally made two sided innerspring mattresses but make sure you can find out the density of all the foam layers in their mattresses before making any purchase so you can confirm that they meet the foam quality guidelines here and that there are no lower quality materials or weak links that could compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress.

http://sleepshop.ca/ Retailer in Vancouver, Richmond, Langley, Abbotsford. Their Renelle, Natura, and ZedBed mattresses may be worth considering here.

Welcome to Kingdom4You.com Factory direct manufacturer in Chilliwack. They make mostly Murphy bed mattresses but also have a range of one and two sided polyfoam mattresses using continuous coils and good quality polyfoam (2 lb) and carry latex toppers as well. Can also custom build.

Being a back sleeper I would be looking at a comfort layer in the range of 2-3" (tending towards 2) as a thicker layer may cause alignment issues (hips sinking down too far causing lower back issues). Typically memory foam can use a slightly thicker layer than latex because you will tend to sink deeper overall into memory foam than latex. Because of your lighter weight … I would tend towards softer/thinner latex if you go in that direction. Memory foam as a whole will all be soft (15 ILD or less) even though some of it will feel firm initially until it warms up. Lower density memory foam will likely be less temperature sensitive but will also allow you to “go through” more easily and in thinner layers may not offer as much pressure relief if that is an issue for you. The support layer underneath should be firm enough to hold up your heavier parts (hips) and how firm this needs to be will depend to some degree on your weight distribution.

Hope this helps.

Phoenix

3

Thank you for your reply! I called several of the places which you directed me to in the Vancouver foam and mattress stores.

To update the list: Parkers is now closed and several on the list are not in Vancouver but in Surrey, which is actually like going to another city 2 hours away, so I ruled those out. A couple of stores had excellent latex natural mattresses except the prices were between $2800 and $3500 for a queen.

For those of you in Vancouver, I visited Discount Foam on Fraser St and was met with a very knowledgeable person. You are right that his latex options are good value. He no longer carries the blended Talalay but has the Dunlops in 3 kinds of firmness, simplicity itself at 6 inches with a cotton cover. Recommended! I would have bought one on the spot if the soft Dunlop had not been too firm for me. He does not believe in layering since he says if the layers are glued, the top layer only (which is most prone to wear) cannot be replaced.

I will most likely purchase the 3 layered blended Talalay at Majestic as it was the most comfortable. A few more questions:

  1. Are you saying that the blended 70% natural and 30% synthetic Talalay is as safe as the 100% all natural latex?
    There is no gasing-off issue or other health concerns?

  2. If I asked the store not to glue on the top soft comfort layer and just put it in place, how realistic is it to replace only that layer? Seems complicated to get that layer out and a new one in again into that tight space, maybe having to bring the entire mattress into the store, more delivery charges, etc. Are there any statistics on the approximate lifetime of a 2 inch soft blended Talalay comfort layer?

Thanks

4

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the update on Parkers. I last talked with them only a couple of months ago so this must have been fairly recent. I’ll keep an eye on what the “changes” are that they are referring to and to see if they will be re-opening.

My brother actually lives in Surrey and my daughter lives in Vancouver (UBC Graduate) and I was born and raised in Victoria so the lower mainland is like a second “home base” for me :slight_smile:

I usually list manufacturers or better outlets within about 50 miles or so (and sometimes 100) because there are usually so few better outlets or manufacturers in an area that it’s often worth an hour or so of travel time to go there. It may be worth a phone call to the surrey outlets because I know at least one of them has some good prices (although they may not give them out on the phone).

Thanks for the feedback on them. I also enjoyed talking with him. There have been a lot of supplier changes in the Vancouver market which has caused some turmoil there and I suspect this may be the reason why they are no longer carrying Talalay (they still were in April). He has a good point and there are also other manufacturers who have the same opinion although there are others who think differently. There are advantages and disadvantages to every type of construction but it’s certainly true that a separate topper used for a comfort layer (if it’s needed) can be replaced more easily if it wears out faster than the core of the mattress and this is one of the advantages for that type of construction.

They both have kind of a mild “vanilla” smell at first but they have both passed the same very stringent testing for VOC’s and any harmful chemicals in the mattress. The actual standard is Oeko-Tex standard 100 class 1 (which is safe for close contact with babies) and you can see what they test for here. So yes they are both equally safe and the blended has the advantage of being less costly and more durable in softer ILD’s.

There are zip covers and mattresses that use exchangeable layers where layer replacements are simple but if the mattress cover is sewn then it would need a manufacturer to change out the layer and re-sew the cover unless someone had the ability to do this themselves and it’s fairly specialized with a tape edge machine. There are no statistics on the lifetime of a specific layer because durability depends on a wide range of different factors (you can see the may factors that affect durability in post #2 here) and the degree of sensitivity that someone may have to softening before they were out of their comfort and support “range of tolerance”.

A topper will not last as long as a similar layer inside a mattress because it flexes more independently and is more subject to the mechanical compression that wears out a foam. the good news though is that latex is the most durable of all the foams (polyfoam, memory foam, latex foam) and it would be reasonable to assume that it will outlast any other material in a similar layer. It’s also true that softer layers will compress more (mechanical compression again) so they will wear faster than firmer layers. Lighter people will wear out a foam more slowly than heavier people. A good quality latex topper though should last a good 5-10 years (depending on all the variables) and a good quality latex mattress … even with a softer comfort layer … should last a good 10 - 20 years. These are probably conservative numbers but I hesitate to be more specific because it’s not really possible with all the variables. Softening is probably the limiting factor much more than the actual breakdown of the latex even though it will soften much more slowly than other foams.

Phoenix

5

Is the Oeko-Tex testing for latex mandatory in Canada? So far, not one retailer has produced paperwork for certification but many say they are certified and tested.

Thanks

6

Hi Julie,

No it’s not mandatory in any country. Oeko-Tex is an independent certification that is available to foam and textile manufacturers and it’s one of several certification standards that are commonly seen. It’s generally up to the producer of the mattress materials, not the mattress manufacturer or the retail outlet, to certify their materials and decide which one to use or which is most appropriate or desirable. If a mattress manufacturer or retailer makes a claim though that the materials in their mattresses are certified … then it would only make sense that they would also supply information about which materials carry which of the many types of certification even if they don’t have the certification documents themselves.

Oeko-Tex is used by both major talalay foam producers (Latex International based in the US and and Radium based in the Netherlands) so if you see Talalay latex it has been certified through Oeko-Tex standard 100. You can see what they test for here.

Dunlop latex on the other hand has dozens of manufacturers around the world and they tend to use other certifications which include tests for NR purity (because with Dunlop the NR content is very desirable). In these cases you will often see certifications from Eco Institute, or from LGA.

All of these certifications have logos which a foam manufacturer can display when they have passed the tests and these logos are both competitive products and desirable by different types of manufacturers as a marketing advantage.

While each country has certain laws and consumer safety regulations in place … these private testing organizations are often more stringent because of the consumer’s recognition that the safety laws in many countries are not as strict as they should be. If the manufacturer of the foam is known, then their website can be checked for any certifications it may have.

There are also various types of organic certifications … some more meaningful than others … but organic is not so much about safety of products but more about certifying that the production of a product (primarily agricultural products) at different stages followed organic farming methods.

As a side note as well … safety is never an absolute and the degree of exposure and the time of exposure to certain substances (natural or otherwise) can affect different people differently. Most of these standards would assure the vast majority of the population that a product is safe the vast majority of the time. There is always a small percentage of the population though with conditions like MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) for example who will react to certain substances (or combinations of substances) in amounts that almost nobody else has any problem with and for these people their own personal research into solutions can become the most time consuming and important part of their lives. For these people … life can be very difficult because tiny amounts of these substances are endemic everywhere. In the most extreme cases they live in houses that have been specially constructed or “cleaned” including everything that is in the house and are often housebound.

So in essence … both types of latex (Talalay and Dunlop) is generally considered to be “safe” if it is made by a known and reputable latex foam manufacturer. It is generally the foam of choice (the three types of foam most often used in mattresses are polyurethane foam, memory foam, and latex foam) for those who are the most concerned with harmful VOC’s (many VOC’s are not harmful and are a natural occurrence) and chemical sensitivities. For those who equate “safety” with “natural” or “organic” (which is another very complex and often misunderstood subject) and this is a primary part of their “value equation” … then they would be most likely to choose 100% natural latex and would typically choose Dunlop over Talalay because it generally contains a higher natural latex content.

Phoenix

7

Thanks again for the detailed and informative response. :slight_smile:

Julie

8

Hi Phoenix,

Just joined the site…Great information…I never realized all the health issues not sleeping on the right mattress can have on the body…

Having read some of the information you recommended, I soon realized all the past mistakes I’ve made when purchasing mattresses! I am from Vancouver, BC and I am going to see the guys you recommended at discount foam…I now understand how different sleeping positions need different types of mattresses…I’m a stomach sleeper/side sleeper and lastly a back sleeper…All in descending order.7 years ago my wife and I purchased a $5000.00 memory foam mattress set (soooo nice), it was so comfortable but unfortunately, not right for me…My Lower back pain was horrible and just kept getting worse…We kept the mattress for almost a year (I tried).The company was really great and allowed me to trade it in for a 6 inch Polyurethane, Ortho-support, firm, king size model and they included a 3 inch memory foam topper.The mattress has a wool side cover and a cotton side cover for winter time and summer time use…The value of the Poly mattress was alot less then what we paid for our king size memory foam bed but at least they allowed us to return it for something else.I couldn’t use the topper on the firm mattress as my lower back pain would immediately start all over again…I loved the soft cocoon feel of the memory foam and really wished it would have worked for me!

I agree with your 3 “P” philosophy when it comes to mattresses. I now realize that my hips cannot sink into the mattress as this was the cause of my lower back pain (alignment problem). I find that the foam mattress I’m sleeping on is working for the alignment issue but is not very comfortable and is causing pressure point problems (shoulders/hips) which in turn are effecting my sleep/body…So now I am trying to find a topper that will still allow support but allow me some relief on the pressure point issues.

A bit about myself, I’m 50 years old, very active, a little arthritis in my lower back and hips, 5’11 and 170 lbs. My wife is a back sleeper and loves the softer mattress feel…She loved the memory foam mattress and has been a trooper sleeping on the firm mattress with me all these years…This time we are going to look at a topper for my side of the bed and one for her side…

When speaking with the foam guys, they were suggesting another foam topper…Do you think that would be the way to go? Or do you think a 2 inch firm/extra firm latex topper may be the way to go? I called a couple of the latex mattress stores you recommended in Vancouver but couldn’t see myself spending $1000.00 on a 2 inch, king size, latex topper…For that price and a few hundred dollars more, I could by a whole top of the line king bed from your recommended dealer at Northwest beds…I think the foam guys will have a more practical price when it comes to mattress toppers…If not, I may check out Northwest beds in Delta and see what I can find in a new mattress…

Do you have any suggestions? I think after reading your site and reflecting, I have a pretty good idea of the balance I will have to navigate to get the right type of mattress/topper…It probably isn’t going to be easy as a predominately stomach/side sleeper though but at least I can feel a little more equipped to know what I am looking for and where to look!

Thanks for your site!

Regards,

Mark from Canada

9

Hi Littlemanb,

This can be somewhat of a challenge to find the best balance between the competing needs each sleeping position because the requirements of each position are different … especially stomach and side sleeping. Stomach sleeping tends to need a firmer surface to prevent hammocking of the pelvis into the mattress and side sleeping tends to need a thicker softer comfort layer to allow the shoulders or hips to sink in in more for pressure relief and to fill in the curves in the body profile for side sleeping and to a lesser degree for back sleeping. In these cases it’s usually best to choose the thinnest firmest comfort layer (or topper) that “just barely” provides the pressure relief you need on your side so that the risk of alignment issues is less on your stomach.

Other things that can be helpful is a zoned support system with a firmer zone under the pelvis to help prevent the pelvis from sinking in too far relative to the other parts of the body (allowing the use of softer materials on top with less alignment risk because you will sink in more evenly), using a pillow under the pelvis when you sleep on your stomach, or a body pillow which can help you sleep more on your side with the “feel” of sleeping on your stomach.

The key in most cases though is to make sure that a topper is not too thick so that your hips are closer to the firmer support layers. 2" would be “safer” than 3" in most cases for people who spend significant time on their stomach.

Choosing the most suitable topper without testing the specific mattress/topper combination can be almost as difficult as choosing a mattress but post #2 here and the posts it links to have some guidelines for choosing a topper which should be helpful.

This may have been a matter of the thickness of the topper rather than the type of material. A thinner memory foam topper may have worked well because it will allow the support layer to “stop” your pelvis before it sinks in quite as far. A topper would mostly negate the benefit of the cotton or wool mattress cover though.

There are three different types of foam (latex foam, memory foam, polyfoam) so I’m not sure which type of foam they are suggesting (I’m guessing memory foam because you mentioned “agan”?) but in general the choice between the different types of foam would be based on your personal preferences because they are very different from each other in terms of how they feel and respond. Regardless of which type of topper you choose though … I would make sure it was soft enough to relieve pressure on your side (extra firm would only be more of the same as what you already have) but thin enough to keep your pelvis from being too far away from the support layers.

As you mentioned … this is a lot to pay for a latex topper and I would consider talking to some of the sources listed in post #21 here which ship across Canada and where a latex topper may be available for less (assuming you prefer latex over memory foam). Costco also has a Talalay latex topper here which is 3" (may be a little on the thick side) but is also a little firmer (medium firmness which may compensate a little for the thickness) which may be worth trying. If nothing else this would give you a reference point for a latex topper with little risk because of Costco’s return policy.

Phoenix

10

Sorry Phoenix, I meant that the Foam Guys suggested a Poly foam topper, due to the fact that my Poly mattress is almost 8 years old…We ended up getting the egg crate 2 inch HD poly topper…They were excellent to deal with and never tried to up sell me on anything…As a matter of fact, they were quite the opposite…

Anyways, thank you again for the quick reply and I will be using the foam guys again…We will be replacing our mattress in 3 to 4 years and will definitely return to them for a latex mattress…Good choice adding the Discount foam guys to your list, I found them knowledgable, sincere and very helpful…GREAT combination!

Not to mention without your assistance/information, I would not know what I know now!

Thanks again Phoenix!

Mark

11

Hi Littlemanb,

It sounds like you’re set for a little while.

Thanks for the feedback about Discount Foam as well!

We’ll see you when it’s time for a new mattress :slight_smile:

Phoenix

12

Talk then!

Mark

13

Is there any new players in Lower Mainland worth considering or the list at the top is still mostly valid?

14

Hi georgekronberg,

I edit the forum lists on a regular basis as new information comes to light. The Vancouver list was last edited on June 14th of this year and is still up to date as far as I’m aware (although there could always be options I’m not aware of).

Phoenix

15

hello
im in the market for a new mattress and i live in the lower mainland of bc. i checked out all the links in post #2 (thanks phoenix). north shore linens seems to be selling an all latex mattress for the cheapest out of all the sites that i checked out. theyre selling a Dunlop Latex Arpico Deluxe Mattress 100% Natural Latex 6" for $800 (medium firmness).

i will be going there to test out their mattress’ and the question i have is 6 inch latex suitable for an adult (weight 180 lbs) or is 6 inch latex suitable only for a child?

also, i dont see “Dunlop Latex Arpico” much online, is this type of latex good quality?

and, why are the latex mattress’ from here so cheap compared to other places in the lower mainland? seems like this place sells for 30% - 40% less than everywhere else.

also, i sleep in all positions and read in another thread that 6 inch latex is really only suitable for stomach sleeping and back sleeping, not side sleeping, so should i be avoiding the 6 inch latex mattress?

i posted in this thread because im not sure how to post a topic, i dont see “post a topic” sign.
this is a nice site btw :).

16

hi could someone put my above post in a seperate thread. i wanted to make my own thread but im not sure how to. im thinking thats why i havent received a response from anybody yet? thanks.

17

Hi.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:
I am glad that you find our site useful.

The thickness of a mattress is just a side effect of the design and by itself isn’t particularly meaningful because whether a thicker or thinner mattress would be better or worse for any particular person will depend on the specifics of the materials (type, firmness, etc.) and on all the other layers in the mattress. Thickness is only one of many specs that are used to make different mattresses that perform and feel differently and that makes a mattress suitable for one person and not another. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here.

Thinner latex mattresses are common in many parts of the world but only your personal testing can tell if this would be an appropriate choice for you. A 6" mattress can be adequate for adults as well and regardless of how thick or thin a mattress may be … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress is how suitable it is “as a whole” for your particular body type, sleeping positions, and sensitivities in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).

Arpico is a foam supplier in Sri Lank producing high quality natural and organic Dunlop latex, many of our members here are sourcing their foams from Arpico. They are actually mentioned quite often both here on the site and worldwide here
Weather 100% natural Dunlop or their organic Dunlop Arpico’s foams are certainly high quality and very durable so if any of the mattresses you are considering are a good match in terms of PPP and there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise durability and based on all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you they would certainly be well worth considering.

I can’t speak to why North Shore Linens would have these prices, but they have a history of reasonable prices that some consumers here commented on. Once you reach their showroom make sure to look at the product and determine the quality of the overall product, including their organic cotton cover, return policies and so on.

The most reliable and “accurate” method to see if a mattress is suitable for both comfort and support is generally your own careful and objective personal testing on the specific mattress you are considering as a purchase. In the showroom testing and depending upon the variables listed previously when lying on your side I would pay attention to the comfort and pressure points to decide if you have enough pressure relief or if you might need extra 2"-3" of latex (which is offered with their 8" Deluxe Mattress)

We are working on the back end to implement and finalize the new design element – Talk to the Experts and while it is under construction, we have eliminated “New Topics” for Phoenix so we can effectively service consumer members and manage the increased workload demand. However, the “Ask an Expert” tab of the site is taking new topics for any of the Experts listed.

I hope this information is helpful and I’ll be interested to learn of your eventual decision.

Phoenix

18

hi phoenix thanks for the response. i was also looking at the 8 inch latex from north shore linens but, its a bit too costly for me. id like to spend about $800 on a mattress, still need to get a foundation and bed frame, or a foundation that is built into a bed frame.

i have my eye on this one also, have to test it out as well. https://www.majesticsitandsleep.com/collections/mattresses/products/the-adagio?variant=991821398034
this one is 8 inches but, 6 inches of foam and, 2 inches of latex comfort layer. the comfort layer is only 20 ild latex, which is soft i believe. would you happen to know anything about the foam in this mattress, " BioFoam".

thanks again.

19

skip12001,

I know I’m not Phoenix, but BiOH just refers to the fact that it’s a polyurethane foam using some of the polyols uses to make the polyurethane foam from a soy precursor source instead of petroleum. The more important thing to look at is the density of the polyurethane foam, which at 2 pounds would be a better quality polyurethane foam. Obviously, using a majority of polyurethane foam versus being all-latex would be different for your own value determination of the mattresses you’re comparing.

I hope that helps.

Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Beducation / Mattress To Go

20

hi mattress to go. does biofoam only contain soy or a mixture of soy/petroleum?

i know latex is the “healthiest” foam, is “biofoam” 2nd in that department?

density is just the weight of the foam?