Trying to find a new mattress after 20 years and came to Mattress Underground and kind of baffled by what is going on. I cam here looking at Saatva and another couple mattresses.
I tried reading the tutorial but with the 20 different links, all i missed was the “Press one for English” link… Not coherent or answers to straight question.
I looked at the Saatva thread (yes all 14 pages) and a couple others and my guess is there are two paid shrills from another mattress company attacking every Saatva poster with impunity from the moderator. At least that is what it looks like, They would be kicked off any another forum in 30 seconds but here they can run rampant. The animosity is virulent towards a Saatva poster… IMO kind of discredits Mattress Undergrounds credibility to have that going on but not my website.
What is interesting, while Saatva is slammned for positive posts, when you look at all the recommended companies reviews, pretty much same pattern great posts on delivery like Saatva but then you have the “misusing credit card, owner is a jerk” comments and they are a recommended companies? Plus it looks like any recommended mattress company only sells mattresses that are into the thousands.
Saatva seems to be highly recommended by almost everyone BUT Mattress Underground. Did they not pay to join and get their seal of approval?
For example: Came across a company with the “Mattress Underground Seal of Approval”. Scott Jordan, mattresses starting at $1300 going to $7000. Damn they should have something at that price. However, they seem to be the only company that has that seal on their website that I can find . I see that they can pay to join but does that automatically give them the seal of approval? Is that annual or one time?
The companies pay to be here it says, . Do they all have the 'Seal of Approval? If so why is Scott Jordan the only one that I can find that uses it?
I am not associated with Saatva or any other mattress company, just a guy looking for a good mattress. I will admit there is lot of good information here but something just does not seem right here. I am just an outsider looking in trying to make sense of it but then that is the mattress industry it seems.
[quote]Trying to find a new mattress after 20 years and came to Mattress Underground and kind of baffled by what is going on. I cam here looking at Saatva and another couple mattresses.
I tried reading the tutorial but with the 20 different links, all i missed was the “Press one for English” link… Not coherent or answers to straight question.[/quote]
Your comments seem somewhat strange to me but on the chance that you really did come here to learn about mattresses, mattress materials, and how to make the best quality value choice rather than just find reasons to criticize the site I’ll add a few comments in reply to your post.
I’m not sure what you were reading but the tutorial has helped many thousands of people with their questions and it contains a great deal of objective and factual information that you won’t generally find anywhere else on the web. There are actually 3 versions of the tutorial. The first one goes into a great deal of depth and includes many links that have very specific and detailed answers to most of the questions that people generally ask. The second more simplified version towards the end has much less detail and has fewer links for those that don’t want to read all the more detailed information that is in the more in depth version. At the very end there is the most basic version of all that would take most people less than 30 seconds to read.
Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you’ve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort” and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).
[quote]I looked at the Saatva thread (yes all 14 pages) and a couple others and my guess is there are two paid shrills from another mattress company attacking every Saatva poster with impunity from the moderator. At least that is what it looks like, They would be kicked off any another forum in 30 seconds but here they can run rampant. The animosity is virulent towards a Saatva poster… IMO kind of discredits Mattress Undergrounds credibility to have that going on but not my website.
What is interesting, while Saatva is slammned for positive posts, when you look at all the recommended companies reviews, pretty much same pattern great posts on delivery like Saatva but then you have the “misusing credit card, owner is a jerk” comments and they are a recommended companies? Plus it looks like any recommended mattress company only sells mattresses that are into the thousands.
Saatva seems to be highly recommended by almost everyone BUT Mattress Underground. Did they not pay to join and get their seal of approval?[/quote]
If you read the first post of the Saatva topic you will see much more detailed and factual information and an analysis of the Saatva mattresses and the quality and durability of the materials they use that is based on more objective information. There is also more information about Saatva and some of the other simplified choice mattresses in post #2 here in the simplified choice mattress topic. A forum search on Saatva (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about them as well besides the topic you read.
When you have taken the time to learn about how to assess the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress then many of the comments about Saatva will probably make more sense to you.
Some of the criticism on the Saatva thread is more than justified because Saatva basically “bribed” some of the members here to delete or edit some of their more negative comments about their experience with their Saatva mattress (you can see the posts that were deleted) and the members that did this were called out by some of the other members here that saw the original posts and realized that they were changing their story. Saatva is well known for “managing” their reviews and “encouraging” their customers to change them when they aren’t favorable and this is one of the few sites where you will see a more complete range of opinions about them and where you will see more factual information about their mattress rather than just the “marketing” or “promotional” information that is much more common.
They certainly aren’t highly recommended by everyone based on any more objective criteria. I have had some extensive conversations with Saatva and they (and most of the other simplified choice mattresses) actually wanted to become a member of this site and pay the referral fees but they didn’t qualify for membership for the reasons that are in the previous posts about them that I linked including the quality and durability of the materials in their mattress. In other words I don’t choose the members of the site based on the referral fees I would earn and membership here is based on much more objective criteria. I have turned down many more members than I have accepted and in some cases they were larger than all the rest of the membership combined. I would guess that over 90% of the retailers in the industry wouldn’t qualify for membership here.
While Saatva would be a “better than average” quality/value choice compared to most of the mainstream mattresses made by the major manufacturers (which I would avoid) … for most people they wouldn’t be in the same “quality/value” range as many of the other options that most of the members here would know about as a result of the information on the site.
[quote]For example: Came across a company with the “Mattress Underground Seal of Approval”. Scott Jordan, mattresses starting at $1300 going to $7000. Damn they should have something at that price. However, they seem to be the only company that has that seal on their website that I can find . I see that they can pay to join but does that automatically give them the seal of approval? Is that annual or one time?
The companies pay to be here it says, . Do they all have the 'Seal of Approval? If so why is Scott Jordan the only one that I can find that uses it?[/quote]
You can see a list of the manufacturers and retailers that are members here on this page and they are members because I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. You can see some of the criteria for membership and how I earn my income in post #2 here and on this page.
Having said that … that doesn’t mean that every one of the mattresses sold by a member here would be a good value choice and I certainly wouldn’t pay close to $7000 for a 12" latex mattress because there are many similar component latex mattresses that are available at a significantly lower prices. For those that follow the steps in the tutorial and the guidelines that it links to it would be very unlikely that they would purchase this mattress because even though it uses very high quality and durable materials … for most people it wouldn’t be a good “value” purchase compared to the many other similar mattresses that are available in the market (including from some of the other members here). Having said that … some of the other mattresses sold by Scott Jordan would certainly make very good quality/value choices.
If you are truly interested in “What is the real story here?” then it may be worthwhile taking the time to read post #64 here and the posts it links to which will answer all of the questions in your post and about the site itself in more detail including some of the history of the site and the reasons why I started it almost 5 years ago.
I have no reason to delete any of the posts here unless they are spam or they don’t comply with the rules of the forum … neither of which would apply to your post.
All of the information here is free for you to use in any way you choose (or of course you can disregard it as well) and you are always free to ask any specific questions that haven’t been answered in the tutorial that I can help with.
Walk us thru this "Seal of Approval, on the Scott Jordan site.
Is it just their marketing, as it seems they are the only one I could find using it.
Does every member get it when approved and they pay the membership?
[quote]Some of the criticism on the Saatva thread is more than justified because Saatva basically “bribed” some of the members here to delete or edit some of their more negative comments about their experience with their Saatva mattress (you can see the posts that were deleted) and the members that did this were called out by some of the other members here that saw the original posts and realized that they were changing their story. Saatva is well known for “managing” their reviews and “encouraging” their customers to change them when they aren’t favorable and this is one of the few sites where you will see a more complete range of opinions about them and where you will see more factual information about their mattress rather than just the “marketing” or “promotional” information that is much more common.
[/quote]
Well they do not do a real good job, as it is easy to find the same negative comments as any mftr here and elsewhere… Just do a google review on any of the members here and will find the same thing.
It is really naive to think that other companies are not “managing” their reviews if they care at all. That is standard business practice across all industries, nothing new here. Any company that does not try to make things right regardless of the motive is losing ground so what is bad about that versus a company that does nothing? Plus you will find all companies will always ask for the review to be amended at least. Nothing new or strange here, so not sure what the big deal is.
Do all the members here have return policies equal or better than Saatva? If not, why are they members?
I’m not clear why you appear to be promoting Saatva rather than learning about them which is the reason that I thought you were here.
[quote]Walk us thru this "Seal of Approval, on the Scott Jordan site.
Is it just their marketing, as it seems they are the only one I could find using it.
Does every member get it when approved and they pay the membership?[/quote]
It would probably make sense to read my previous reply since all of these questions are answered there. When you post as aggressively as you are or take on the role of acting as an apologist for a company about issues that you don’t fully seem to understand (such as assessing the quality of the materials in a mattress) and you also don’t take the time to read the replies and information that was already given to you it also brings your motivations and the real reasons you are posting here into question. Legitimate consumers are generally more interested in learning about mattresses and how to assess and evaluate them than they are in criticizing the information and replies on a site that is designed to help them.
[quote]Well they do not do a real good job, as it is easy to find the same negative comments as any mftr here and elsewhere… Just do a google review on any of the members here and will find the same thing.
It is really naive to think that other companies are not “managing” their reviews if they care at all. That is standard business practice across all industries, nothing new here. Any company that does not try to make things right regardless of the motive is losing ground so what is bad about that versus a company that does nothing? Plus you will find all companies will always ask for the review to be amended at least. Nothing new or strange here, so not sure what the big deal is.
Do all the members here have return policies equal or better than Saatva? If not, why are they members? [/quote]
Many companies pay serious attention to their reviews and work hard to resolve any issues that they mention but there is a difference between making the resolution of an issue conditional on either deleting or completely changing a review (which they have done) and solving the issue and letting the consumer post an update to their review to let others know that their issues were resolved. Every company has some unhappy customers over time and how an issue is resolved can say more about a company than the issue itself. When a company uses “pressure” to try and remove legitimate negative feedback then it brings the legitimacy of all their feedback into question.
Hopefully you have also read my comments about reviews in general in the tutorial or in hundreds of my replies in the forum …
Some of them have better return policies, some are worse, and some don’t allow any returns at all … but return policies are a preference choice and aren’t a condition for membership.
I would also keep in mind that return/exchange policies are built in to the cost of a mattress as a hidden cost and consumers that don’t return or exchange a mattress are the ones that pay for the ones that do. There is more information about return and exchange policies in post #25 here and in post #3 here).
While they aren’t as important with a local mattress purchase that you can test in person … with an online purchase they can certainly lower the risk of buying a mattress that may not turn out as well as you hoped for and can be an important part of the “value” of an online purchase.
Return policy then is only a concern with Saatva, I see.
.[quote]While they aren’t as important with a local mattress purchase that you can test in person … with an online purchase they can certainly lower the risk of buying a mattress that may not turn out as well as you hoped for and can be an important part of the “value” of an online purchase.[/quote]
Now that is an interesting and contradictory statement as your tutorials have blasted the 2 minute in store lay on the bed. Plus for an online purchase a proactive return policy would be paramount, otherwise you are totally stuck, so that absolutely makes no sense.
I guess we will agree to disagree about you answering the questions but IMO that kind tends to confirm that this is not really unbiased as it is presented for providing useful information not tainted by membership money. Pretty sure I have gleaned any usefulness and have a better understanding of how the mattress rating business works now too.
I would encourage you to read my replies a little bit more carefully because your comments are beginning to border on being somewhat nonsensical and breaking the forum rules … particularly #7 …
In your case this is a warning.
As I’ve already mentioned, there is no “should or shouldn’t” here … only preferences. A return policy will be more important to some people than others and this is part of each person’s personal value equation that they can decide for themselves.
I’m not sure what you are getting at here but the fact that it’s not specified separately is why it’s a “hidden” cost. If you read the links in the previous reply you will have a better understanding of what I meant. If you have spent as much time as I have talking with manufacturers and retailers then you would also understand that the return policy and the costs involved to a manufacturer or retailer and their estimate of their likely percentage of returns is certainly something that affects their pricing model and the price of their mattress and is something that they certainly put some thought into (along with many other factors as well … see post #14 here).
Again I would read my replies a little more carefully before you resort to sarcasm. As I mentioned in the earlier part of this reply and in my previous reply … return/exchange policies are a preference choice that is one of many factors that an informed consumer can take into account in deciding on the “value” of a mattress purchase. Their return policy is what it is and it certainly isn’t a concern of mine. All that is important to me is that a consumer that is considering their mattress knows what it is and the costs involved with a return so that they can take it into consideration.
Again it’s clear that you haven’t read the tutorial (or at least you missed the step that includes the testing guidelines that I would suggest) or perhaps you are deliberately misrepresenting what you read (which would be “trolling”) … but either way I certainly wouldn’t suggest a “2 minute in store lay on bed experience”.
I would also suggest re-reading post #2 here that I linked in an earlier reply and which is also in the tutorial which has more about the different ways to choose the most suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for. One of the comments in this link is this …
You are always free to agree or disagree with anything you read here and you are also free to spend your time at any websites that you wish to. I certainly have no issues with what anyone chooses to believe or not to believe or the type of facts they take into consideration. Some people still believe that the world is flat and spend a great deal of time on websites that they believe prove that it is and will argue with anyone who says it isn’t.
While you can read here as much as you wish … if you do wish to keep your posting privileges here then you will also need to stick to the rules of the forum without engaging in any further trolling.