What to do - bad back AND shoulders

I’m baaack! Well, actually its my BAD BACK that is back :frowning: . With the help of this forum Ive slept comfortably on a latex mattress for about 2 years (6 inches of 36 ILD talalay + 2 inches of 24 ILD + a very nice wool and cotton padded top.)

There was from the beginning some slight hammock effect (butt sinking in too far) but not enough to cause problems except it was not comfortable to sleep on my stomach or back (I like all positions but favor back and side). Well, a few weeks ago I injured my back in a camping trip GONE SERIOUSLY WRONG… (slept in a car on slanted ground). And am working at a job with a really bad chair and workstation… the bed is not working anymore. Also one thing is that when I got the bed (2 yrs ago) I was recovering from a shoulder injury so I erred on the side of the bed being slightly too soft (ie so shoulder could sink in without hurting). Shoulder is now healed, but sleeping on it with my back the way it is now is not working so that’s why Im thinking I need to focus on what will work better for my back.

Before I pull the plug and get a new zoned coil mattress I was told I can open up the casing and pull out the 2 inch 24 ILD and put something firmer in … but is that going to be enough to eliminate butt sinking? I experimented with turning it over and lying on the 36 ILD side but even then… it was definitely firmer but the butt still sunk in!!! OK maybe liposuction would work.

What about two inches of Dunlop on top of the 36 ILD talalay? Ive heard its less squishy than talalay? Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Right now Im on the floor - on a 1 1/2 inch therma-rest which is on top of the 2 inch luxury map Thermarest plus a wool mattress pad on top, and its actually quite comfy for my back.

Thnx. Catya iN Wisconsin

Hi sleepless in wi,

I switched your post to your old topic so it would be easier to refer back to the previous information you provided there.

Could you be more specific about what you mean by “not working” and any specific symptoms you are experiencing and the sleeping positions that are affecting them the most?

There is also more information about the most common symptoms that people may experience on a mattress in post #2 here that may clarify the types of changes that may be most helpful in terms of PPP.

Don’t forget that you “need” to sink in to some degree to provide good alignment because otherwise you may as well be sleeping on the floor without a mattress at all. A mattress that is too firm and doesn’t allow you to sink in “enough” to keep your spine in good alignment would provide poor support to the more recessed parts of your body. There is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief in Post #2 here and post #4 here that may be helpful in understanding what “good support” really means but the heavier parts of the body will always sink in more easily than the lighter parts of the body. The most effective way to assess whether a mattress is “working well” for you is to go by your specific symptoms and to evaluate how your symptoms change on different combinations or materials or firmness levels rather than going by how much it “feels like” you are sinking in which is much more subjective and less meaningful than your actual sleeping experience and the actual “symptoms” you are experiencing (see post #22 here).

I would also talk to Beloit to see what suggestions they may have and possibly do some additional testing there because they will also be a great source of guidance and they will be able to see you on different mattresses and hear your feedback in “real time” which is a much more effective way to decide on what to do next.

It’s very unlikely that a 36 ILD support core would be too soft for you with your weight so the “trick” will be to decide on the thickness and firmness of any comfort layers that you decide to add on top of it. I would start with sleeping on the firmer side of the mattress so you can assess how your specific “symptoms” change compared to sleeping on the mattress with the 2" comfort layer on top which may provide a more specific reference point and help “point to” the firmness and thickness of comfort layers that will work best for you. The goal is to have “just enough” thickness and firmness to provide “enough” pressure relief when you are sleeping on your side so that the risk of alignment issues is less when you are sleeping on your back or stomach. The mattress you currently have would be “inside the averages” that would normally work well for most people with your body type and sleeping positions (if anything it may be a little on the firm side) but each person can be unique and not everyone is “inside the averages” so it may take some “detective work” and trial and error to find out the layer combination that will work best for you.

Phoenix

Greetings, thanks for digging up my old data - one thing missing from that string (I think I posted it later on) was that I did eventually find nirvana with my mattress by simply adding a wool mattress pad to the top. I do think there is something to the “pushback” phenomenon that some people report with latex - but by putting just that little bit of extra wool between me and the latex, it made a huge difference… just the right combination of soft and supportive. Could still feel the latex pushing me up but under the wool it becomes more of a pleasant buoyant feeling instead of uncomfortable rubbery feeling (Like sleeping on a giant pi nk rubber eraser - ouvh!)

Well its too bad I bought the mattress while I had a shoulder injury, because that I think caused me to err on the side of the 2 " comfort layer being just too dang soft. After a trip to Beloit yesterday its clear that its the 2 inch top layer Im sinking too much into, and not the 6 inch core. There was a 36 ILD with2 inches of 28 or 32 which felt pretty good (should have gotten that one - oh well). OR… they also have one that is 6 inches of 36 ILD OVER 2 inches of 44 ILD. That one I think would work well for me - felt my alignment get nice and straight, but my hunch is Id need a little bit more wool than just the usual mattress pad to serve as a comfort layer… is there such a thing as a 1 or 2 inch topper made of wool?

So the choices seem to be tweak my current one (I may have to DIY, because Im not sure I want to pay to have this one hauled away and then brought back)

OR… there was one of the orthopedic mattress I tested out which was a luscious combination of 2 layers of microcoils plus various layers of latex, wool and cotton. I have found that lying on my stomach for a good while is a good test of sufficient supportiveness and this one I think was the best in that regard (had a zoned coil system). If the small of my back starts getting sore or tense that means my alignment isnt straight enough.

Wonder if I should just let my body decide - which one gives me the best feel right out of the box. Guess Im a little weary of trying to engineer something that may… or may not… work.

Thanks again Phoenix… its great that theres people out there who take an interest in these things. My friends are quite bored by the minutiae of mattress construction :lol:

Hi sleepless in wi,

Yes … this is one of the main differences between sleeping directly on latex with a thinner stretch cover or having a quilted cover (or topper) that has a more relaxed and less resilient feel (see post #12 here and the posts it links to). Some people certainly prefer one and some prefer the other.

Yes … there are some good sources listed in post #3 here. There is also more about the “feel” of wool toppers in posts #3 and #6 here. Wool can “soften up” firmer latex layers and it can “firm up” softer latex layers underneath it.

If you are doing some careful testing on different types of mattresses, materials, and layer combinations, I would put a great deal of weight on what your body is telling you :slight_smile:

Phoenix