I sent an email to Chad yesterday as well and haven’t heard back. Beds&Beds carries Corsicana and Glideaway. Furnituremart carries Restonic…not sure on any other quality companies in this area and I’d rather not purchase online.
Neil responded back and said dbergan will be posting the answers from Chad tonight. I was invited down to the store to speak with Chad as well…
Hi Quickstrike,
Hopefully you will be able to find out the information you need and if you do it would be great to post the layering information on the forum as well.
Corsicana is generally a “promotional brand” that specializes in mattresses that are in lower budget ranges but they usually aren’t completely transparent about the layers and components in their mattresses either (see this article).
Glideaway is a smaller manufacturer that makes some good quality/value mattresses and are typically more transparent about the materials inside them than most of the larger manufacturers but this will also depend on the retailer that sells them and their willingness to find out any specs they aren’t aware of from the factory.
Restonic is a licensee brand that is made by different manufacturers across the country some of which are more transparent than others about the type and quality of the materials in their mattresses. They have some reasonable quality/value mattresses but finding out the specifics that you need to know will also depend on the retailer as well and their willingness to call the factory and find out any information you need about the specific mattresses they are selling.
I did a quick review of the stores in your area to see if there were any others that may be worth considering but the 4 stores in the Sioux Falls list are still the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in your area (although of course there may be other “possibilities” that I’m not aware of or didn’t find).
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
I just spent an hour face-to-face with Chad, the owner. He gave me the data sheets for his products, and we had a candid conversation about the products in his beds and the reasons he uses the terms that he does. He was completely transparent and truthful with me. However, I promised him that I would not betray his confidence and post details without his consent. (With the papers he gave me, I could essentially open a competing mattress factory and make his exact beds.)
Chad is interested in having an email or phone conversation with you, Phoenix. He thanks you for bringing me and Quickstrike to his store, and a good chunk of our discussion was about how to use your website for educational purposes for the nerdier folks (like me) who really want to know about bedding materials. I’ll private message his contact details to you.
Quickstrike, feel free to ask Chad directly, but I can tell you this. The foam is not latex. It’s 100% poly. As far as I can tell, the poly is of high quality and exceeds the Phoenix’s guidelines.
Most of this thread was a confusion over the term “synthetic latex” because Phoenix uses it to mean “latex made from styrene butadiene” and Chad uses the term to mean “a synthetic substance with latex-like properties”. Kind of like how synthetic turf (astroturf) is not actually grass, but grass-like. Until you and I started talking about it with Chad, he didn’t even realize that he might not be using the right term. So, from that perspective, you can see how every time I asked about the quality of their latex, they always responded with “it’s 100% synthetic” and thought that they were being completely truthful even though it’s not latex.
Personally, I think Chad’s being a tad paranoid by inventing in-house names for his materials (rather than using the names you could easily google), but considering how hostile Comfort King is about his business, I can understand his reluctance to divulge anything in public that would allow them to attack his products or steal his concepts.
And Comfort King, if you read this… stop bashing Beds by Design. At this point, you guys make significantly different products that appeal to different people. A good number of customers actually buy their beds from Chad because of the hostility they feel at CK toward him.
Thanks for all the help, Phoenix.
Kind regards,
David
PS The Comfort King graph did not use a Beds by Design mattress. I felt I should clear that up, since I brought it up.
Bummer that there’s no latex in their Duron. I’m as confused as ever and not sure where to go now. I don’t want to spend $3K on Poly if it’s not going to last.
Hi dbergan,
This certainly wouldn’t be the case if all he disclosed is the type and quality/density of the materials in his mattresses because he wouldn’t need to disclose the “comfort specs” or other information that would be the biggest part of how a mattress feels (see the previous posts I linked about disclosing so called “proprietary” inforamtion. Any manufacturer that was truly interested in “duplicating” one of his mattresses also would have no trouble buying one if they wanted to and “reverse engineering” it anyway.
Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers anyway and don’t normally try to “match” another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer.
Yes he emailed me as well and over the course of the next few days I will give him a call and talk with him when I have the chance but he would need to be more transparent and accurate about the materials he uses in his mattresses in order to qualify for membership here (transparency about the type and quality of the materials in a mattress is the single biggest criteria for membership in the site).
[quote]Quickstrike, feel free to ask Chad directly, but I can tell you this. The foam is not latex. It’s 100% poly. As far as I can tell, the poly is of high quality and exceeds the Phoenix’s guidelines.
Most of this thread was a confusion over the term “synthetic latex” because Phoenix uses it to mean “latex made from styrene butadiene” and Chad uses the term to mean “a synthetic substance with latex-like properties”.[/quote]
“Synthetic latex” has a very specific meaning which isn’t really a matter of “confusion” at all. If the foam isn’t latex (either natural or synthetic or a blend of both) then I believe that it’s misleading to call it “synthetic latex” when it isn’t because people will compare it to other mattresses that use synthetic or other types of latex which is a much more costly material.
NOTE ADDED: I have talked with Chad and have confirmed that none of the materials in any of the Beds by Design mattresses are either synthetic or natural latex and they are versions of polyfoam. Some of the materials are high performance polyfoams that are certainly a good quality material and have many of the properties of latex but are less costly than “real” latex (synthetic or natural).
I would agree with this as well and again I don’t believe that disclosing accurate information about the type and quality of the materials in a mattress would allow others to “attack” his products or “steal” his concepts (there are many components mattresses available in the market) and it would certainly inspire a higher level of consumer trust and confidence about the accuracy of the all the information they provide.
I would agree that there is little point in “bashing” competitors in either direction since it just strains credibility and I believe that it’s better to just focus on the specific benefits and materials of your own mattresses and let consumers make an “informed choice” about which mattress represents the best “value” for them (regardless of whether anyone else would make the same choice) based on all the parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them.
Phoenix
High quality poly will last. So the real question isn’t “is this latex?” but “will it last?” As far as I can tell, the poly meets (and in some cases greatly exceeds) the guidelines Phoenix put on the page about long-lasting poly. Hopefully Phoenix can confirm this in the next couple days.
Kind regards,
David
Ok. I’ve watched CK videos multiple times and only a few beds use more than 1" of latex.
Hi dbergan,
While it’s true that higher quality/density polyfoam is a high quality and long lasting material … latex in general is the most durable of all the different foam materials (polyfoam, memory foam, latex foam).
While it’s also true that comfort and PPP along with durability are important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase … I certainly wouldn’t agree that it’s the only “real question” because there are also many other parts of value that may be important to different people for many reasons and I certainly wouldn’t be happy if I purchased a mattress that I believe contained latex and found out afterwards that it didn’t. It would be something like buying a piece of furniture that I believed or was told used real wood and had real wood prices only to find out afterwards that it was made of MDF with a veneer that looked like wood and then being told that it would last “just as long” or that it has the “same functions”.
Phoenix
I let Neil know I’d like to cancel the order and do more research. I have to get the dog bed they gave me back there and I feel uncomfortable about having to go in. I wish I would have done a lot more research…
They believe it will last longer than natural or blended latex and that’s why they warranty it for so long. I guess my issue is the cost is in the upper tier of beds at CK who says they use natural latex. Their warranty isn’t as long however the research I’ve done shows it lasting longer than even the best poly.
Fair enough. For me latex isn’t a magic word. I went out of my way to order a $4700 latex mattress from Reverie and wait 5 weeks for it to be delivered only to be sorely disappointed. The first night, my wife could hardly sleep and wanted to go downstairs to our 10-year-old junk-brand spring+pillowtop mattress. After waiting 5 weeks, and convincing myself that I had purchased the best mattress I possibly could, I really wanted the Reverie mattress to work. Furthermore, I was (and still am) infatuated with the concept of a customizable core that I could fine-tune to my own spinal cord and neck-related issues. (I’m a huge DIY customizer type of person.) However, despite spending over 5 hours rearranging the latex cores to find something comfortable for us, I could only make it marginally better. Neither my wife nor I have had a good week of sleep. It’s too firm. It’s too thin.
Granted, that’s only one latex mattress that we tried. But that was theoretically the best one we could get online, and the one that we could customize to our firmness preferences. Since we don’t have a store that sells all-latex mattresses in Sioux Falls, trying others would require waiting 4-5 weeks apiece or spending a weekend in Omaha or the Cities.
For me, and I’ll emphasize that I’m only speaking for my own situation (since you pounced on my last post for writing in a more general sense), the two things I want to know are comfort (PPP) and durability. I want a great night’s sleep, and want that experience for as long as possible. Sure there are fanboys who want latex for the sake of latex. There are people who think “natural” or “organic” products are somehow inherently better than artificial ones. There are people who think SomniGel is water in a gel state. Yes, everyone has their own personal value matrix when it comes to buying products. However, I don’t think that any sane person would ignore my two criteria. They can add to it, but not subtract from it.
Latex sometimes means more durable. Latex sometimes means more supportive. Latex sometimes means more comfortable. Latex sometimes means more expensive. Latex sometimes means better value. You claim that “in general” latex is all of these. But isn’t it possible that some kinds of high quality poly could win in all these areas? I’m looking at data and charts that Chad provided me. It straight-up compares his materials to latex in the support/comfort/durability metrics and the results are convincing (to me) that he is using high quality materials when benchmarked against latex.
Sure, it was unfortunate that BBD was using the term “synthetic latex” improperly. And it would have been nice if BBD made it easier to get the information about their materials. But I now understand Chad’s motives for secrecy, given the mattress factory climate here in Sioux Falls. (Chad and I had similar entrepreneurial experiences… leaving a bigger company to start our own when certain promises weren’t kept. I feel his secrecy/transparency dilemma often.)
And, by the way, Phoenix, if you’re all about transparency, why don’t you use your real name on your website? Probably for similar reasons as Chad’s secrecy, when you think about it.
Thanks again for all your help, Phoenix. I wish you the best of luck finding the right mattress, Quickstrike.
Kind regards,
David
Hi Quickstrike,
As I mentioned in an earlier reply in this topic … I would keep in mind that the length of a mattress warranty has very little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or more importantly how long it may be before you need to replace it. Warranties only cover defects in a mattress and not the gradual (or rapid in the case of lower quality materials) loss of comfort and support that is the main reason people will need to replace their mattress. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here. Warranties that are longer than about 10 years or so are usually more about marketing than anything else.
Phoenix
Ok so my best bet is to go to CK and ask the important questions? Would you take BBd off your list? I really don’t want to order online if possible.
Hi dbergan,
I would completely agree with this. Outside of PPP … the most important part of the “value” of a mattress purchase is durability and assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are “durable enough” for your body type and meet the guidelines here … the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a “better/worse” choice.
There is certainly no “magic” in any particular type of material or mattress design because each person is unique and a mattress that works “perfectly” for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on regardless of which materials or components are inside it or the name of the manufacturer on the label.
There is no such thing as “the best mattress” in general terms … only a mattress that is “best” for a particular person based on "comfort and PPP (how well you sleep), the quality and durability of the materials (how long you sleep well), and all the other parts of each person’s personal value equation that are most important to them. Again … a mattress that would be the “best value” for one person may not even be worth considering for someone else.
As you probably know from your reading here I would also agree with you that “comfort” and PPP and durability are the two most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase. One of the most frequent links that I use in my replies on the forum is this one …
I am also not a big fan of “fanboys” since the combination of materials or the type of mattress that one person may prefer can be very different from other people’s preferences 
Yes ,… it’s absolutely possible that any combination of materials and components could meet all the criteria that are important for any particular person including comfort and PPP, durability, and all the other parts of their personal value equation that are most important to them. This is perhaps one of the most important “messages” that I write about every day to help people understand that a mattress that is “best for them” may be completely different from a mattress that is “best for someone else”.
I don’t make any claims when it comes to comfort or PPP or the “value” of any mattress purchase or material and I specifically avoid making any specific recommendations about mattresses or materials because the goal of this site has always been to help educate consumers about “how” to choose not “what” to choose. There are many people that like latex or memory foam or innersprings or any other type of mattress or materials and there are also many other people that don’t as well. This is all about individual preferences. Even the many replies to you in this topic could have made all of this very clear.
IMO … there is no legitimate reason for withholding the information from your customers that they need to make an informed choice or misrepresenting the materials that you are using in your mattress. While you may understand or sympathize with his reasons … the fact remains that his customers are buying what they believe is latex when it isn’t and this is really no different from the tactics that are used by the major manufacturers (such as selling their mattresses based on “proprietary naming conventions” and making it impossible to make meaningful comparisons between mattresses) which has led to the reputation of the mainstream mattress industry being somewhat similar to buying a used car (see post #12 here).
As I mentioned earlier … any knowledgeable manufacturer could “reverse engineer” their mattresses if they wished to but there would be little point. There really aren’t as many “secrets” in this industry as you may believe there are.
NOTE ADDED: I have talked with Chad and have confirmed that none of the materials in any of the Beds by Design mattresses are either synthetic or natural latex and they are versions of polyfoam. Some of the materials are high performance polyfoams that are certainly a good quality material and have many of the properties of latex but are less costly than “real” latex (synthetic or natural).
Transparency and privacy are two completely different issues. You aren’t purchasing me, my services, or this website
I would hope it would be obvious why on a site like this that has hundreds of thousands of people seeking advice or information I would keep my identity private and who I am isn’t nearly as important as the information that is on the site and is available to the many thousands of people who come here. You can read more about the the reasons I started the site in post #404 here and some of the history behind it in post #4 here. While there are many hundreds and perhaps thousands of people in the industry who know who I am … to you and to the forum members here I am Phoenix and my private identity isn’t something that you “need to know” or that would be relevant to the information that is provided here.
The goal of this site is not about personality but about providing a source of accurate and meaningful information to the degree possible, helping to change the direction of this industry, and giving people the tools that any information can be validated for themselves. The last thing I would want is to be an information “bottleneck”. The people who “need to know” such as the business members of this site and many others throughout the industry that I talk with know who I am and how to reach me at any time. As you may imagine … every day I receive many requests for personal replies or consulting which of course aren’t possible when you work 12 - 16 hours every day 7 days a week on a project such as this and I redirect them to the forum so that the information in the forum can continue to grow, the forum can become a more valuable resource … and I don’t have to answer similar questions many times (I can just link to where they are already answered).
To make me an issue rather than the information on this site and the means to validate it would only lead to a focus on the “person” instead of the “information” and the loss of control of my own home phone number and family environment (I work from home). I prefer to have control over who I speak with in person.
Phoenix
Well said dbergan. I assume you’re keeping your mattress? Did you get the adjustable bed and if so which one and do you like it?
Thanks for your thoughts, Phoenix. You do us all a great service and I hope mattress underground continues grow.
Yes, QS, I did decide to stick with my Liberty mattress from BBD. It arrived today at noon and they told me Chad sewed it himself. 
Can’t wait to sleep in it tonight.
I purchased an adjustable base separately a couple weeks ago. Got the Softide 8300 (Ergomotion) adjustable base. Bought it through the seller bettersleepforless on ebay for about $2700 (split king with white glove delivery service). I love it. Highly recommend getting a base with lumbar and neck tilt. There are a few models out there with those features, but the Softide 8300 was the best price.
bettersleepforless was excellent. I had 2 issues come up, and they handled them expertly. Always very quick to reply.
BBD can get the Softide 8300 for you, too. They also have the Rize Revolution and a Leggett & Platt base with lumbar. The Revolution has Bluetooth speakers… but since I already have speakers in my bedroom, I didn’t need to pay for that.
Kind regards,
David
The adjustable I tried was the BBD100. It doesn’t have a lot of features but it would help my neck and back since I watch TV in bed a lot. My mom says her base has done wonders for her sleep apnea and I was hoping would do the same. It wasn’t much more for it and he said I could trade in the box springs for a full refund towards it. I was thinking about skipping the Outlast, and $130 pillows and see what kind of deal he can do on just the mattress and base. We liked the synergy core more but are afraid it won’t last as long as the coil which is also cheaper. I’m tempted to see if my wife likes a bed at CK more though…she’s never been.
Hi dbergan,
Thanks for the kind words … I appreciate it
I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve had the chance to sleep on your new mattress.
Congratulations on your new adjustable bed as well.
Phoenix
I think my wife and I will go compare what CK has this weekend…