According to Carpenter’s datasheet on the Serene foam (see https://carpenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Carpenter_Foams_july2022.pdf ) there are two choices, one IFD 12 and the other IFD 22. I can’t find any information at the sites of the various people who appear to be reselling Serene foam for toppers or DIY about who has which foam.
Before I start trying to call people and hunt down who has what, does anyone who know has which one? Thanks in advance!
Hi Rehoboth.
Welcome to Our Mattress Forum! 
Thanks for providing the newest Carpenter Foam spec sheets.
Yes, with a quick look I couldn’t find “who sells which”. There is not much info on Serene’s IFDs on different vendor sites. Target has a 3" Serene Topper here but does not specify which IFD they provide for this topper. Bed Bath and Beyond as well Therapedic Serene topper
My guess is that these all are sold as “comfort” items for those looking to add a bit of comfort to a firmer mattress so you’d be more likely to find 12 ILD version of it. So some phone calls would be the best bet.
You may want to watch for any answer to this reddit post here in case someone that route is aware of which vendor sells what.
I’ll also aim to get in touch with some contacts a little later tomorrow to see if we can find something for sure.
Phoenix
Thanks for looking into it, I’ll post if I find anything out too.
As part of our DIY repair project we have also ordered Carpenter foam blocks in ILD 18 and ILD 28, so while I don’t have any scientific way of measuring ILD, I can also try to take the particular Serene block we ordered (from Allyson Brooke) before learning that Carpenter offers Serene in two IFD’s, and see whether it seems to be between those two or softer than both.
As a rough draft for version 1 of this build, we currently have:
then ordered, to go above that,
Wife’s side:
2x 2" ILD 36 (HD36-HQ)
My side:
1x 2" ILD ?? (see above =) Serene
1x 2" ILD 18 Carpenter
1x 2" ILD 28 Carpenter
Yes, this means our sides of the bed aren’t the same height. They aren’t right now either (she’s on coils + base layer foam, I’m on same + the least worn-out 3" convoluted foam that had come in the mattress). Final goal is for them to be the same height but I suspect I won’t want the ILD 28 on my side, so if I buy another 2" block of something softer I’ll see whether my wife wants the 28 on her side.
It’s a fun project so far, enjoying the idea of being able to tweak it to suit us.
Hi Rehoboth.
Yes, you will feel right away the difference, A 12 IFD Serene will feel much softer than the 18 and 28 IFDs of the foam blocks you ordered. Alyson Brook should be able to let you know right off the batt the ILD of the 2" Serene foam they sell if you call them at 1-800-878-2104. They seem to work directly with Carpenter to get special orders for their customers as Carpenter makes specific contract products with specific companies that are produced only for that particular company. Company Store here also sells Serene toppers but they don’t list the IFD. so I’d give them a call.
Jeff from Mattress To Go, (one of the mattress experts on our forum) sells two products made by Capitol Bedding that have Serene foam in the uppermost layer and confirmed that with a 12 IFD you’d probably go right through it to the layer below. If I was buying the Serene in a topper, I’d probably want the 22 IFD, as I think you’d sink right through the 12 IFD.
Also a search for “Serene foam topper IFD” keywords in different browsers revealed results of 16 IFD Serene toppers but you’d need to see how accurate or recent these search results are as clearly on Carpenter’s website only the 12 and 22 IFDs are offered.
[quote] As a rough draft for version 1 of this build, we currently have:
[quote] Yes, this means our sides of the bed aren’t the same height. They aren’t right now either (she’s on coils + base layer foam, I’m on same + the least worn-out 3" convoluted foam that had come in the mattress). Final goal is for them to be the same height but I suspect I won’t want the ILD 28 on my side, so if I buy another 2" block of something softer I’ll see whether my wife wants the 28 on her side.
[/quote]
In your DIY split with (dual thickness), your side would be 2" higher than your wife’s which isn’t the most ideal construction for a couple. As thickness and firmness work together in a finished mattress, it is possible to accommodate two sleepers with different preferences and needs. This is why the thickness of the Polyfoam, layer above the spring unit, and its condition (no sagging or rips) are also important factors in considering the layers above for your DIY. The height of the spring unit is also another important factor. While I can’t say which construction would work best either for you or your wife some personal stats such as BMI, sleeping position(s), and any underlying health conditions) and an assessment of PPP (posture and alignment, pressure relief, and personal preferences) would be very useful in guiding you.
Let us know what you find, and have fun
Phoenix
Hi Rehoboth.
We contacted Carpenter and briefly spoke with Mark W. sr. The Vice president. The 12250BU (12 ILD) is generally for pillows and 22250BU (22ILD) is used for toppers. The HR is a product code since they sell several different foams providing to hundreds of companies (see attached the pdf of the foam spec sheet provided on Carpenter website). To sum up there’s only one IFD for the mattress toppers (22 IFD) So the Target and BBB toppers are the same IFD
Phoenix
https://uploads.mattressunderground.com/outside/66/Carpenter_Foams_july2022(SERENEPU).pdf
Thank you very much for the research! I really appreciate it. We have not received the ILD 18 or 28 Carpenter foams yet, so it will be interesting to confirm this when they arrive.
Polyfoam layer above the spring unit appears intact visually, but is old. It is 1 inch thick. Do you think we should replace that while we have it apart? The springs strike me as more audible than they used to be, but it could well be simply that I’m paying far more attention to the mattress than I had in a long time.
The goal isn’t to end up with different heights, but rather to avoid buying pieces of foam we don’t use (or at least, to avoid buying any more than necessary)… so this stage of the build is meant to see how my wife and I feel about the firmness and support of the bed before most likely buying another one or two pieces of foam to finish the puzzle. If the 28 is too firm for me, then adding it to the 4 inches of 36 on my wife’s side would yield 6 inches. Conversely, if Serene + 18 + 28 is right for me, we can add 2 inches to my wife’s side. This approach also lets her test drive different firmnesses of foam on her side if we do need to add thickness there.
Okay, info about us.
My BMI is in the low 20s, mostly side sleeper, sometimes back, almost never stomach. The main health-related issue here is that I don’t have any built-in padding so a hard mattress feels like sleeping on a wooden floor. And since I don’t weigh much, a medium mattress feels hard. I don’t weigh less than I used to, but the average BMI has gradually gone up, so perhaps manufacturers are using slightly harder foams to compensate? (When I looked for commercial mattresses at the outset of all this, they felt firmer than when I had bought the current mattress 11 years ago.)
My wife’s BMI is in the higher 20s, side and stomach sleeper, occasionally back. She was getting back pain from the worn-out mattress, but again, even version 1.0 (before any foam at all arrived) got rid of that.
This is off topic, and I don’t think it will pertain to this project, but I encountered one component I don’t understand while looking for foam. DIY Mattress sells these 1-inch-thick “micro pocketed coils”. I understand that they’d go right over the existing coil layer, but how are they meant to change the feel of a bed? What’s the point of coils that thin? Or do coils that thin not really change the feel much at all?
I love both tinkering and customizing things, so this is right up my alley. In younger years, we had to be creative with the budget, and I found out that a cheap way to have nicer things was to find broken ones and fix them. It was amazing to me how people would throw away valuable things, just because one part (even a fuse!) had failed.
Thanks again!
Hi Rehoboth.
Thank you for the additional information you provided. These throw a better light on your choices.
Any additional layer will in one way or another affect the general feel of the mattress as a whole but, this layer being further away from the skin, and only 1", it will not add much to the comfort or support Generally a layer like this is placed just above the spring unit to act as a buffer for the mechanical stress of the coils against the comfort/transition layers. The springs should be fine if they are level and the nonwoven fabric and glue still intact.
As the “average BMI has gradually gone up” you would sink in a little more and perhaps reach the firmer layer below more than with your previous BMI (sagging and foams that break down will further amplify this the sink into the layer below"
Both you and your wife have fairly low BMIs so you won’t need a thick mattress, once you know the general direction you want to go into (and it seems you have a fairly good idea) this goes also well with so your plan to start with building your DIY from the bottom up, from the firm to the level of comfort that you seek sounds like a very good plan especially as you love “tinkering and customizing things”
Microcoils are a softer and thinner version of pocket coils that are used in comfort layers instead of as support layers. You can read a bit about microcoils in this article and a forum search on " microcoil " will bring up quite a few references to them and mattresses that use them as well.
• The microcoil layer position in a mattress depends on the mattress design. If used as a topper, for example, even though microcoils are a high-quality and durable material they are a much more limited choice for a topper and many people tend to feel them. You’d still need some type of foam on top of them as the cover may not be enough to prevent the sleeper feeling of the coil underneath.
• The microcoil material technology is still developing but has not achieved the support/pressure-relief capabilities of latex.
• have a “springier” feel. You can read more about microcoils in this article and in post #8 here and post #2 here.
• How they perform in each specific design that uses them will depend on the other materials that are over and underneath the microcells. They are certainly well worth considering as a comfort layer option for those who have tested it and like it.
Microcoils have a different response curve (more linear) than latex (which has a more banana-shaped response curve) They work well for those who prefer their feel and resilience or whose testing shows that they do better with this type of response vs foam.
It warms my heart to hear that sentiment so well expressed. Indeed this attitude helps shift from “consumerism” to creating and recreating value.
I look forward to you receiving the foams and learning about the DIY progress.
Phoenix
Thanks for the kind words!
Okay, here’s version 2.0.
We took out all of the original foam except for the thin layer right over the coils, and then laid the 60x80x2 IFD 36 across it. As expected, my wife liked it and I thought it was much too firm. We then cut it in half carefully, with scissors (you don’t need an electric turkey knife … it’s foam =) and doubled the thickness on my wife’s side, so now 4 inches of IFD 36. She thought that was wonderful.
Now for my side.
We tried putting 2 inches each of 28, then 18, then Serene 12 (listed bottom to top) but this felt somewhat firmer than I wanted and was also too thick for our shell (newbie mistake!) After puzzling a bit about what I would like to try removing from the setup, I took out the 28 and left it as 2 inches of 18 with the 2 inches of 12 over it. This was certainly very soft =) although I am still trying to decide if it gives enough support. I felt like I really liked it before we put the quilted top back on, but the quilted top made everything firmer. As one might expect, this improved my wife’s satisfaction with the mattress even further (she is now absolutely thrilled with it =) but limited my own.
So, I’d say at this point she’s 100% happy with her side and I’m maybe 80% happy with mine. I wish it were softer and also had more support – what I originally loved about the mattress (as it came from the factory) was that it somehow felt both soft and supportive.
I think the first thing I’m going to try is 12-and-28, as odd as that sounds: I’m wondering if making the transition layer firmer might improve the support feeling, and since I have an appropriately sized piece of 28 currently in the bedroom, that’s a pretty easy experiment to do.
We are wondering if putting another layer of 12 over the existing 12 - whether more Serene or its equivalent in an actual memory foam - might help with the softness side of things.
On another subject, I wanted to mention my experiences with the different vendors we used.
We bought the Serene from Allyson Brooke, the 18 and 28 from buyfoam.com, and the 36 from Foam Factory. In each case the product appeared to be exactly what I ordered (in terms of density and approximate IFD) and arrived reasonably promptly. I had originally ordered one more thing from Foam Factory but changed my mind, and emailed them to ask whether it could be taken off of the order. They replied quickly that it would be no problem, refunded the money I’d paid for that part of the order, and sent the remaining thing I had ordered.
Positioning the foam is best done with a 2nd person, I think it would have been a hassle to do it with only 2 hands since dragging it around isn’t good for it. It doesn’t weigh that much, but it is very bulky.
If you have small children, think about where you plan to let it air out. I am grateful that my foam survived having little people playing on it without suffering any damage.