Yankee Mattress Comfort Adustment - advice needed!

Hi,
A few months ago, after much searching, including lots of reading here, I purchased a Nantucket king sized mattress from Yankee Mattress. They changed the products a bit since then. This was actually in the “Platinum” collection and it is a little different than what they currently have listed in the “Black” collection. The layers are as follows:

luxurious quilting + EcoSleep FR barrier
1.5" 1.5 density quilt foam, plush
2" 20 ILD Talalay Latex, plush
4" indiv. pocket. coils (954)
4" indiv. pocket. coils
3/4" 1.8 density, firm foam
(some more coils below in the box springs)

I find that it is great for sleeping on my side. My back seems quite straight in this position. However, when I lay on my back, which I also do a lot of the time, I don’t get enough lumbar support. I can feel the lack of support when I lay in bed and if I lay on my back too much in a night, then I feel a minor ache the next day, I feel that I need it to be a little firmer. My wife is content, but she probably wouldn’t have a problem with a little firmer.

Yankee Mattress offers a 100 night comfort adjustment. It is free, though the shipping is going to be about $350 round trip. Since my 100 nights is almost up, I called to find out what exactly they would change to make it firmer. The man said that they would put 1 additional inch of 1.8 density polyurethane foam under the existing 1.5 inches of polyurethane foam. I’m not convinced that he knows his stuff, as he was trying to convince me that the density isn’t necessarily related to the firmness, Is this true? My bigger concerns though are threefold:

  1. I know from reading around here that polyurethane foam is not that good and I probably don’t want a total of 2.5 inches of it at such a low density. Is this true? My wife and I don’t weigh much but would the longevity of the bed be a problem with so much foam?
  2. Is this change going to negatively impact the feel because we will only feel these cheap layers at the top and not the good stuff down below?
  3. Is this change going to be sufficient to support the lumbar region more but still allow me to dig my shoulder in when sleeping on my side?
  4. Would my $350 be better spent buying a really good topper?

Thanks for any advice you can provide,
Eric

Hi farmdevil,

Needless to say … he does “know his stuff”

The density of polyfoam is the single biggest factor involved in the durability of the material but it has little to do with firmness and any density of polyfoam can be made in a wide range of firmness levels.

Polyfoam can range from a low quality/density material that isn’t very durable at all to a high quality/density material that is very durable depending on the density. As you can see in the durability guidelines here … 1.8 lb polyfoam would be a good quality and durable material that would certainly be suitable for those that are in more average weight ranges (around the lower 200’s or less).

All the layers and components in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will have some effect the feel and performance of every other layer above and below it and the mattress “as a whole” to different degrees so what you feel on a mattress is the combined effect of all the layers and components in the mattress rather than the effects of just a single layer or component but it’s not possible to know for certain how any specific mattress or the combined properties of a particular combination of materials and components will interact with your specific body type and sleeping style or whether it will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) until you have tested it or slept on it in person.

In very general terms … the properties and firmness of materials and components that are closer to the top surface of a sleeping system will tend to have a bigger effect on the overall “feel” and firmness of a mattress than materials that are deeper in the sleeping system, thicker layers or toppers will contribute more of their feel and firmness to the overall sleeping system than thinner layers, and a thinner layer would “allow” more of the feel and properties of the layer(s) underneath it to “come through” than a thicker layer.

An additional 1" layer is relatively thin so it would have less effect on the feel and performance of the latex layers below it than a thicker layer but the “feel” of the mattress will also change to some degree with any change in firmness as well (which of course is what you are looking for).

You are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress so the only way to know for certain whether any mattress or any adjustment to a mattress will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience when you sleep on it but they would be the best source of guidance because they are much more knowledgeable about their mattresses and their comfort adjustments than anyone else (including me) and their suggestions would be based on many years of experiences and the “averages” of many other customers they have helped that are in a similar situation to your own so their knowledge and guidance would give you the best chance of success.

It’s unfortunate that you are too far away to bring the mattress into their factory because their comfort adjustment is free for those that are in their local area and bring their mattress to the factory.

Unfortunately your question isn’t really possible to answer because there are too may unknowns, variables, and complexities involved with how different body types and sleeping styles interact with a specific mattress design or mattress/topper combination to know for certain and the only way to really know will be based on your own personal experience.

If you add a relatively thin (1" to 2") and firmer topper you would lose some of the softer surface feel that comes from the quilting layer and the topper would also move more independently and “act” softer than it would if it was a layer inside the mattress cover and since there would also be thicker layers of soft foam underneath the firmer topper they could end up as a transition layer that was too thick/soft for your body type and may still allow your hips/pelvis to sink down too far when you are on your back so it may only provide partial or temporary relief.

Having an additional inch of foam inside the mattress cover will make the cover a little tighter and compress the other foam layers a little more and make them slightly firmer as well.

Having said that … if you buy a topper from a supplier that has a good return policy with either little or minimal costs involved then it would certainly be worth trying. The better online sources for toppers I’m aware of are listed in post #4 here and if you limit your options to the ones that have a good return policy there would at least be little risk in trying it.

If you decide to try a topper and you are getting close to the end of your 100 day trial then it may also be worth asking them if you can extend it for a short time so you have time to purchase a topper, have it delivered, and try it out for a while to see how it works.

I don’t know the adjustment options they have available but it may also be worth asking if they can replace the 2" latex layer with a slightly firmer latex layer with the same thickness but I don’t know if they have firmer latex available (many manufacturers only carry a limited range of firmness levels).

Phoenix

Recall in my case that the proposed solution will result in this configuration:

luxurious quilting + EcoSleep FR barrier
1.5" 1.5 density quilt foam, plush
1" 1.8 density foam, firm
2" 20 ILD Talalay Latex, plush
4" indiv. pocket. coils (954)
4" indiv. pocket. coils
3/4" 1.8 density, firm foam
(some more coils below in the box springs)

I notice that Yankee’s website lists the “Fairhaven,” in which they do a similar deal with an extra 1" upholstery layer between the 1.5" quilt padding and the latex. In this case, they are shooting for a firm feel overall, so they use plush quilt padding, extra firm middle upholstery layer, and then firm latex (which indicates by the way that they must have firm latex in stock, though I’d still have to ask if they are willing to use it for my adjustment).

So on one hand, I’m happy to see that they seem to be doing this setup as a matter of routine, as opposed to it being more of a hack. On the other hand, I’ve mostly seen two philosophies in mattress design: plush to firm and firm to plush. I haven’t really seen configurations in which a firm layer was sandwiched between two plush ones.

So my follow-up questions: Of course my satisfaction with the final result is subjective, but is this type of out-of-order sandwiching a sensible strategy to address my concerns? Are other manufacturers doing this?

Thanks,
Eric

Hi farmdevil,

Yes … this is the adjustment you described in your first post.

Yes … mattress manufacturers use many different combinations of layers that can mix the firmness levels of different layers and don’t necessarily follow a firmer to softer progression in order to achieve certain design goals and “feels”.

Phoenix

I’ve been reading back through several of your guides today and I guess I’ve been reframing my issue. Upon close inspection, it seems (as you likely suspected) that my hips are sinking in a little (it’s really not very significant, but it must be the cause of my ache) too much, as opposed to my initial description as a lack of lumbar support.

Per your suggestion above, I plan to call Yankee in the morning to see if changing the latex is an option. I think it’s probably not, as it is explicitly not allowed for the comfort adjustment after 100 nights, but I may as well check if this is also the case for the 100 night adjustment.

The question then is, if they say yes that they can increase the latex firmness, what are the pros and cons of each option (changing the latex vs. adding polyurethane foam between layers)? My intuition is that the latex option would change the bed more fundamentally but I’m unsure what to expect with the extra foam layer. The interaction between layers seems more complex so I’m having trouble imagining how each layer compresses in such a configuration.

Thanks,
Eric

Hi farmdevil,

Unless you have compared two closely identical mattresses in person you probably won’t be able to “imagine” how either of them feel until you try them so I wouldn’t even try.

Both of them would provide some additional firmness but they would have a different “feel” because of the differences in their design but there is no way to know which one you would prefer outside of your own testing or personal experience.

I haven’t slept on either one of them I can only guess at how they may differ based on “theory” (and even if I had my experience may be different from yours anyway) but since latex is more resilient than polyfoam and because with the additional firmer polyfoam layer on top of the latex you would be a little bit further away from the latex … I would guess that it may feel a little less resilient compared to being closer to a firmer layer of latex without the additional layer of polyfoam.

Neither one would have any weak links so durability wouldn’t be an issue with either one of them but I would give a slight edge in terms of durability to replacing the latex vs adding the polyfoam layer.

Phoenix