100% all natural Talalay

After countless hours of research I am better informed, yet still confused.

How can I tell if the mattress is 100%, all natural, and not blended? I don’t need organic, and I understand this only means that 100% of the latex in the core is natural, and other components could be 5-20%. is there a target I should look for? I am not opposed to buying online. I tried out a Pure Latex Bliss and loved it, although this was one with the Active Fusion gel, which I was not interested in, and I like the idea of having interchangeable layers, not to mention the sky high price of the Bliss.

I live in SoCal, and live close to a few locations mentioned here:

Flexuscomfort, although based on their website, they don’t offer 100% all natural Talalay, only Dunlop

Astrabeds.com seemed to have great pricing and some good consumer reviews, although their BBB rating is a C+

Lastly, still uncertain if I should use my 4 yr old box spring as a foundation? A couple of sites mention that would void the warranty? Your reccomendations?

Thank you for your help!

Hi BeachGirl,

Most consumers wouldn’t be able to tell the difference and would be dependent on the integrity and knowledge of the retailer or manufacturer they were buying from and the accuracy of their descriptions of the materials they were using. Besides any differences in natural latex content there are also two different types of latex manufacturing methods which are also different in their performance and “feel”. You can read a little more about the different types of latex in this article and post #6 here. The choice between them would be based on personal preferences and priorities and I would think of the different types of latex as being “different” and more or less suitable for you in terms of your specific needs and preferences and your personal value equation rather than being “better or worse” in and of themselves. Better in one person’s “definition” or context may be worse for another person depending on what is most important to each person.

I think very highly of both Flexus and Foam Sweet Foam and both would make good quality/value choices.

My opinion of Astrabeds is not nearly as high and their “value” is also not in the same range as either of the other two (or other online choices that are available as well). You can read more of my thoughts about them in post #2 here.

You can read more about different types of mattress / foundation combinations in post #2 here but in most cases a latex or any all foam mattress will do best on a rigid slatted foundation that has firm non flexing and even support and gaps between the slats of 3" or less. There are some thinner latex mattresses that have been specifically designed as a “sleeping system” for use on a specific box spring however and in these cases they should be used with the box spring they were designed for.

Each manufacturer has their own warranty criteria so it’s always a good idea to check with the specific manufacturer of your mattress but in general … unless a latex mattress is specifically designed to be used on a specific box spring … then I would use a rigid non flexing foundation.


Thank you for your quick reply Phoenix,

I appreciate the help, and clarification. I will head out to the two locations soon, and have decided on a new foundation as well. Thank you for the links!

Hi Phoenix,

I made my purchase at Foamsweetfoam after trying out several mattresses in their showroom. Initially I went in shopping for a 3 layer all Talalay, then I decided why not try out the 4 layer. I fell in love with the 4 layer, it was immediately much more comfortable and I also prefer the additional height. I assembled the layers just like the one in the showroom, from top to bottom Soft, Med, Firm, Extra Firm. The one in the showroom was placed a solid platform bed frame.

I’ve had mine now for three weeks, I’m a side sleeper, and since day one, I still find the shoulder area to be too firm for my liking, and I am still trying to get that “showroom” feeling. Mine is placed on top of my previous box spring, which was still in good condition. Now then, I am curious as to which layer to swap out for? I phoned Scott and he recommends taking out the bottom ex firm layer and see how it feels, it feels great, but now what? My first thought would be to exchange for one more soft layer? Scott does not recommend it, although he says many people do just.

Appreciate your help!

Hi Beachgirl,

Post #2 here may help you identify some of the reasons that your mattress may be feeling firmer than you remember the one in the showroom feeling.

I would normally suggest following the suggestions of the manufacturer and like them I would be very hesitant to add more soft latex to your system.

I’m not sure if your box spring is an actual box spring (that flexes) or if it’s a firm non flexing foundation but if it is it may be worth trying your mattress on the floor to see if it makes any difference because a box spring can change how a mattress feels and performs compared to a solid foundation or platform.

Normally taking away the bottom layer would make the mattress firmer if it was on a firm foundation (the firm layer would have more flex than the foundation under it) but if you have a box spring then removing some of the thickness may make a difference in how much the box spring “gives” under the mattress and could account for the difference in how it feels. If your current system feels softer to you and is working well then your own experience is what counts and if a 3 layer system works then I would be tempted to use this and not “argue” with success. If you do decide to use this then it would need a change in the size of the cover.

You have the same layers as the one you tested in the showroom so the difference in how they feel could either be subjective (it’s not uncommon that a mattress feels different than what you remember testing in a showroom when you sleep on it overnight), or it could also be that the mattress in the showroom has broken in and softened slightly under the shoulders compared to the one you have (in which case walking on the mattress to help it go through it’s initial softening a little faster could help), or it could be for one of the other reasons mentioned in the post I linked (possibly your bedding or mattress protector).

While I don’t know all the details or information about your body type or sleeping style … I would be generally be very hesitant to add more soft latex to a mattress that already has a soft layer.


Hi Phoenix,

Thanks so much for your help! I read Post #2, and that helped a lot also. The box spring is the type that flexes, I am 5’9, and weigh 160, if that helps. So, it is much softer now, but actually too soft. I also like to sit up in bed at night to read, and watch TV, and I sink it too much now. I really liked the support for sitting up that I had with the ex firm on the bottom. It’s also so soft when I get out on the side that it makes it a little harder to get out of bed.

One more thing to note, I still have not received the mattress protector, ordered that almost a month ago, and still waiting, I should have that next week, and that could make a difference as well. SWF has a 30 day one layer exchange, which is why I was trying to make a decision.

I’m thinking of walking on it to see if that helps, just how much walking, or amount of time do you think it could take to make a difference?

Hey BeachGirl,

A couple of thoughts:

For reference, FSF Natural Talalay ILDs (nominal) [density lbs.]:

14-22 (20) [3.5] soft
23-29 (26) [4.0] medium
30-37 (32) [4.9] firm
38+ (38) [5.3] extra firm

The s-m-f could be feeling softer without the xf layer ‘hardening’ the box springs. Sitting could now be sinking a bit more into the box springs, although Latex is not well-suited for holding up point loads to begin with. Having box springs that are not a no-flex platform could complicate everything you try, if that’s the case.

100% Natural is suppose to soften with age, so maybe the showroom covers and Latex were older, stretched and softer.

I’m not sure walking is going to age/soften the Latex very quickly, but it might eek some slack out of the cover.

The original layers don’t look too firm for your shape. Going softer like s-s on top would mean deep soft… too deep with 3" layers for the support required, imo,

The s-m-f could be feeling softer simply because the cover is now very loose without the fourth layer installed. A taut cover that does not stretch acts like a trampoline, trying to pull in the beaded edge of the cover when you lay on it. This keeps the wider upper body from sinking in… and makes the mattress feel firmer/harder… and can upset alignment.

So, I would put s-m-f-xf back together and leave the cover unzipped to see if your upper body cradles better. Although a softer upper body response is not going to be more sit-able, except you’ll have the xf helping out at the bottom.


Hi Sleeping,

I will put it all back together and give it a try, just by unzipping,? Thank you so much for your reply, very much appreciated. Stay tuned.

Hi Beach Girl,

I would definitely agree with Sleeping’s comments here …

and would suggest removing the box spring completely as a variable by sleeping on your mattress for a few days without it (on the floor if necessary). The difference between this and using the box spring vs a firm platform would be more evident and clear that way and remove the need to use “theory” or “guesswork” about the effect of the box spring on what you are experiencing and use your actual experience instead (which is more meaningful and practical). While a box spring can be useful with a thinner or firmer latex mattress in some design combinations … it is not the most suitable choice for an all latex mattress IMO and can easily allow your heavier pelvis to sink in too deeply relative to the lighter shoulders and upper body area which won’t “penetrate” your sleeping system as much.

It’s also true that latex is more “point elastic” than polyfoam or a box spring with connected coils and compresses more easily under concentrated weight than other materials so I would evaluate your mattress as a sleeping system exclusively rather than a sitting system. If you tend to sit on your mattress a lot then an adjustable bed or some other adjustable support system that better supports the weight of your torso and distributes it more evenly (spreads your weight across a greater surface area than sitting up with little support behind your back) would be a good idea both for posture reasons and for better support while you are sitting.

A few days of more “concentrated” compression will help speed up the initial break in period somewhat which includes stretching the cover and removing any “false loft” in the materials but beyond that (the initial break in period) it won’t likely make much difference as Sleeping also mentioned. It would be more beneficial under the shoulder area which takes longer to soften than the hips because it supports less weight and this is where you are feeling the excess firmness.

Because your experience is the opposite of what would normally be expected with removing the X-Firm layer (which would normally make your mattress firmer not softer) … this indicates that the box spring may be playing a role in what you are experiencing along with the tightness of the cover although the cover is a “semi stretch” with a stretch knit on one side and a weave on the other side of the quilting.

I would also consider that a firmer or taller pillow can make a difference on the firmness you feel under your shoulders depending on whether your current pillow is tall or firm enough to keep your neck and head in good alignment and fully support its weight with your current configuration.

Finally … I would also ask FSF if you can have a small extension to your exchange period so you have a little more time to experiment with a few alternative layerings and combinations without the “pressure” of having to make a more hasty decision than you would prefer.


PS: It may also be a good idea to go back to the FSF showroom now that you have had a few weeks experience with your own mattress and see if you still feel a difference between the floor model and what you are sleeping on at home. If it is still “better” than your own then outside of variations in the firmness of the foam … it would indicate that the feel of the showroom model is what your mattress will “become” if you duplicate the same overall sleeping system with the same type or firmness of foundation underneath it. If it seems that the showroom model has the same “issues” as yours does now that you are more familiar with what to look for … then it may indicate other changes may be necessary.

If you grab the unzipped cover top in both hands and give it a yank, you’ll see right away how much it stretches. I suspect it does not stretch a bit despite how knitted it looks… the backing fabric holds it tight. If so, then leaving it unzipped will help… you’ll feel the Latex contour better to your upper body and notice a bit more shoulder relief when on your side… enough to make you say, ‘I want that’.