Hi Pheonix,
I would like your opinion on this statement I found on the Nature"s Embrace website
Is there such a thing as 100% natural Talalay latex?
No. The Talalay process was specifically designed to take advantage of the uniform chemical and physical properties of synthetic latex. The simplest way to prove this fact is that no Talalay latex has ever been certified organic under the GOLS standard. The reason for that is simple: the GOLS standard forbids the use of synthetic latex.
[quote]I would like your opinion on this statement I found on the Nature"s Embrace website
Is there such a thing as 100% natural Talalay latex?
No. The Talalay process was specifically designed to take advantage of the uniform chemical and physical properties of synthetic latex. The simplest way to prove this fact is that no Talalay latex has ever been certified organic under the GOLS standard. The reason for that is simple: the GOLS standard forbids the use of synthetic latex.[/quote]
You can see my comments about “100% natural latex” in the first part of post #2 here.
They are correct that there isn’t any certified organic Talalay latex but that certainly doesn’t mean that there isn’t any 100% natural Talalay (meaning that 100% of the rubber is natural and doesn’t contain any synthetic rubber … not that 100% of the latex core is rubber).
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks for the reply, do you have any idea why there is no organic talalaly available? If Dunlop can source organic latex, why cant the Talalay manufacturers do the same?
It could be for quite a number of reasons but of course I don’t know the specific reasons that either one of the Talalay latex producers don’t make it. One of them may be that the sources of raw natural latex they are using isn’t organic and they don’t believe that any benefits of sourcing from organic plantations would be worth any extra cost involved, there may not be enough organic certified raw latex available to meet their production needs, there could be something in the production process they are using that wouldn’t meet all the organic certification criteria, they may believe that producing organic Talalay wouldn’t provide any legitimate benefits that would justify the additional cost (such as separating the blended Talalay production lines from any organic production lines), or there could be a number of other reasons that they just aren’t interested in either the manufacturing or certification process or expense that would be involved in producing certified organic Talalay in the first place because any benefits wouldn’t be worthwhile to them.
The next question that comes to mind is, how does one know he is buying 100% Natural Talalay latex, and not the blended version?
Is there something on the latex itself that identifies it?
Do you know which talalay manufacturer that produce it?
Any reputable retailers you can recommend that you are certain that this is what they sell?
Unless you have a mattress with a zip cover that gives you access to the individual layers and there are any identifying stickers or markings on the layers that would identify the materials (which may or may not be the case) you would be dependent on trusting the reputation, integrity, and knowledge of the manufacturer or retailer you purchased it from. The same would be true about any type of mattress and the materials inside it because if a manufacturer or retailer really wanted to deceive their customers about what is inside their mattresses they certainly could since most consumers wouldn’t have the knowledge or experience to be able to identify the specifics of the materials inside any mattress they purchase.
I would certainly trust the members here and I recommend them “as a group” although there are also many other manufacturers or retailers that are mentioned in the various forum lists that I also think highly of and would trust as well.
Post #4 here also has a list of the better online sources I’m aware of for individual components and materials that include different types and blends of latex as well and there is also a list for manufacturers and retailers that ship across Canada (including yourself) in post #21 here.
Thanks for your reply, so if I understand correctly, the only way to make sure you are getting 100% Natural Talalay is by trusting the reputation, integrity, and knowledge of the manufacturer or retailer you purchased it from! I think the industry needs to adapt and supply some form of certification, or labeling of the latex, so that we can be certain of what we are buying. I am aware the the natural Talalay is expensive to produce, and actually quite rare, however when you search for it online it seams to be easily available, and sometimes for less money than the blended.
How about manufacturers, we are looking at buying some 100% Natural talalay latex, and I would like your recommendations
Regardless of any certifications or information that a manufacturer or retailer provides you a manufacturer or retailer that wanted to could still deceive you by using materials in their mattress that are different from the information they provided you. Even if every layer in a mattress was identified on the layer itself they could still change the sticker on the layer.
In the end there is no way to avoid trusting someone when you are purchasing a mattress. This is why I have often mentioned that the knowledge, experience, and integrity of the retailer or manufacturer you are purchasing from can be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase.
If you are looking at purchasing 100% natural talalay then there are only two options available. One is Radium in Holland and the other is Talalay Global (formerly Latex International) in the US. You would either need to order directly from either of them (assuming that you meet their minimum volume requirements and/or they can provide the specific layer thicknesses that you are looking for) or find a reliable wholesale supplier or fabricator that you trust that sells them in smaller amounts or in the thicknesses and firmnesses that you require.
The suggestions I made in my previous reply would only apply to retail purchases but not to manufacturers that are looking to purchase 100% natural Talalay in wholesale quantities.
1-It seams the 100% Natural Talalay does not meet VOC emissions testing requirements
2-And is rated Moderately problematic, but acceptable for use[map type=HYBRID zoom=2][/map]
These issues seam worrisome for a product labelled as 100% natural?
your thoughts?
I’m not familiar enough with it to make any particularly meaningful comments and I haven’t compared it in any detail to other certifications in terms of the allowable limits or standards but on the face of it it certainly appears to be a legitimate certification both for human safety and for environmental safety and sustainability.
I’m not clear which testing requirements you are referring to here. Both of the Talalay manufacturers meet the Oeko-Tex standard 100 requirements for organic volatiles which are .5 mg/m3 which is the same as the Total VOC limit for the Cradle to Cradle Gold and Platinum certification.
If you can link to the information you are referring to about being “moderately problematic” it would probably be helpful.
If any issues are worrisome to any particular person based on any specific criteria that are important parts of their personal value equation then they would probably avoid that specific material. I personally don’t have any concerns about any type or blend of latex in terms of its “safety”.
As you mentioned … the certificate indicates that 22 of the chemical substances they use are “Moderately problematic, but acceptable for use” and 1 is “Considered unassessed due to unknown identity or lack of toxicity information” but they don’t provide any specifics or make any other comments other than that.
I would like to give some more explanation on the Material Health certificate.
Cradle to Cradle helps to (re)design products and processes to become safer, healthier and environmentally friendly. https://www.c2ccertified.org/
In the last few years Radium Foam has redesigned and improved Natural Talalay towards the Silver level. For receiving the Material Health certificate the product does not contain any banned materials and there are no carcinogens, mutagens, or reproductive toxins in the material. This is a good accomplishment.
Regarding the off-gassing requirements for Cradle to Cradle Gold certification.
Radium’s Natural Talalay meets the OEKOtex 100, Class 1 Standard. However, the OEKOTEX testing procedure does not cover all the VOCs required for C2C certification. Recently a VOC test that follows the AgBB Standard showed it meets all the off-gassing requirements for C2C Certification. Therefore, a new Material Health certificate will be available soon that shows the material meets VOC emissions.
Regarding Material Health and ABC-X requirements.
Cradle to Cradle assessments methodology first checks the potential hazard(s) of chemicals for both human and environmental health, and then an exposure assessment is applied. This basically means that for each exposure scenario (can be in production, use, recycling) it is checked whether the risk is considered significant or not. One example: one process chemical in rubber foam production is a chemical which is also found in a regular soap. This chemical is toxic to fish, however is not harmful for people and if it would be released to water it would biodegrade very quickly. Therefore this chemical is not considered to have a significant risk for the aquatic environment and it can be concluded that it is considered acceptable for use.
(In short, moderately problematic means the identified risk is not significant for the users and environment.)
The above might be quite technical. In summary, by receiving a Cradle to Cradle Health Certificate on the Silver level Natural Talalay meets stringent criteria and can be considered a safe material.
Frieke Heens
EPEA, the Cradle to Cradle assessor of Radium Foam’s Natural Talalay
Radium 's Natural Vita Talalay has been 100% assessed and is considered safe for human and environmental health. The product meets the VOC off-gassing requirements.
Progress has al;so been made in recyclability, renewable energy use and social fairness.
The Cradle to Cradle Certification Programm includes the following categories: material health, material reutilization, renewable energy, water management and social fairness.
Some of the reasons are listed in my previous reply in post #4 here.
The requirement to separate production lines for blended Talalay and organic Talalay would probably be enough by itself for a company to decide not to produce organic Talalay given the very small market that it would have.
Now that Radium has the Cradle to Cradle Gold certificate which also covers some of the same criteria as organic certifications (such as social and environmental considerations) there would be even less reason to have an organic certification.
Thank you for giving me a few of your assumptions on why there is no organic Talalay. However I think I have found out why it can’t be made. A client of mine emailed me this explanation after spending a month researching the subject. This does not take away any of the natural qualities and certifications of the Talalay latex, but simply puts my question to rest.
Since there are no rubber trees in Europe or North America the rubber tree milk needs to be transported. Talalay is a complex process and is either processed in Europe, or in North America. Therefor technically it cannot be certified organic due to the fact the a stabilizer needs to be added to the rubber tree milk to prevent it from spoiling during transportation.
On the other hand Dunlop rubber can be certified organic because the rubber is processed on site (simpler process that Talalay) after tapping the rubber tree milk and does have stabilizers added.
I would really really appreciate comments from both Phoenix and Jeff Scheuer