Hi Phoenix,
I am curious if you think those specs would be durable enough for someone with a higher bmi?
thanks!
Hi Ari,
I donât have enough information about the 2920 mattress regarding all of the foam layers and the source of their foams to render any sort of educated analysis, so I always advise caution in situations such as that.
Phoenix
that was all the info they gave me as well
thanks Phoenix !
Hi Ari,
170+ boxed-bed companies out there and growing, with many quite secretive about their product sourcing and ownership. Iâm hoping more will follow the lead of the site members here and be more transparent about their materials, as I believe consumers appreciate that.
Phoenix
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Here is a response I got from them.
We are a US-based (and registered) company, with our staff mostly based in California.
Yes, the second layer is poly and we source from a very reputable domestic company called Carpenter.
I am also one of the partners in the business â I would love to talk with you to get your feedback on our website, information, and what we can do to take better care of âhighly informedâ customers such as yourself 
He gave me his phone number. Very open and responsive.
Hi Napper,
Thanks for the update on the polyfoam layer and foam sourcing.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
2920 is supposed to reach out to you if they havenât already.
Hi Napper,
Thanks for the heads up. I receive quite a few introductory emails from many of the new companies (usually just asking to advertise here on the site or to give me free mattresses to âtestâ), so Iâll be on the lookout.
Phoenix
Hi All- believe the 1" layer below the top 2" layer of Carpenter Serene foam is Avena foam (which would make sense since itâs also from Carpenter). Admittedly, Iâd like to see more 2+ pound foam used in these mattresses but the vast majority of online companies use the 1.8, and this is largely because the manufacturers are advising companies that the difference in durability is negligible. Granted, itâs probably not as costly to pour the less dense foam and the 1.8 is much more âavailableâ, but manufacturers are reassuring companies that theyâre confident in the durability, since warranty claims would often go back to them (less weight in the mattress is often promoted as an advantage as well). Iâve had conversations that reinforce this general trend with a number of industry veterans, including a couple who were foam and material scientists. Elite Foam, one of the major foam manufacturers supplying many brands, consistently tries to get these companies to use their 1.8 lb foam instead of 2.4⌠a couple companies have even told me that Elite is constantly asking them to go to the 1.8 lb even though they want to stick with the 2.4. I also think itâs interesting that Brooklyn Bedding settled on (what appears to be) the Elite 1.8 lb and the Wright Mattress was apparently persuaded to go from the 2.4 (which they were originally using) to the 1.8 (and worth noting that no price reduction was factored in there on the mattress). Both companies echo the manufacturer and reiterate the foam is plenty durable for virtually all weight ranges. Regardless, Iâd much rather see more 2.4 being used and also wonder if it has more âHRâ like properties⌠Iâve even seen it described as âHRâ although not sure it has the requisite support factor (and realize HR typically starts at 2.5 lbs). I do have to wonder though- is it time that 1.8 lb became the new HD quality standard without a âslight cautionâ for those in the low 200 lb range or higher (granted, NFL Linemen and extra large types will always have special considerations).
Hi Manimal
I slept on a Wright for awhile when it was the 2.4lb base foam and it was a medium firm and i loved it.
I also slept on the Wright with the 1.8lb base foam and it was soft with no support (for me)
That was a very expensive bed , i wish they had left the specs alone , they had a good thing, why ruin it when you are charging 1795 for a queen
The two posts above from Manimal and Ari are very helpful as points of reference which I appreciate greatly as another high BMI sleeper, thanks very much for taking the time to share your experiences!
I noticed that most seemed to be going for the 1.8 and wondered why so many would go the route if it was not up to the task. Thanks for the info.
Ari- thatâs very interesting⌠Iâm not sure what the âsetupâ was for both when you slept on them and if they may have differed (e.g. a different foundation could result in a significant difference in the perceived feel) but will give you the benefit of the doubt unless you say otherwise. I know from experience that the 1.8 lb in the BME is very firm which I could detect even though the top layers were too soft for me, so wonder if the lower density could have more of an impact on the support of the Wright since it has a lower ILD⌠although donât recall if the ILD on the original version was a little higher (32 ILD of 2.2 or 2.4 would likely feel more supportive than 30 ILD of 1.8 when talking about support cores from the same manufacturer). Regardless, I agree with you and was very disappointed to learn they down-specked it.
Iâm glad others found our comments helpful but also realize thereâs a lot of unknowns, variables, etc. that factor into the feel of every mattress. Many reading this thread are probably also aware that density doesnât necessarily have a direct correlation to the âfirmnessâ of different foams- imagine a mattress-sized block of Styrofoam next to a much denser and heavier block of 2.8 lb HR polyfoam that has ~27 ILD⌠the Styrofoam will be like lying on a board while the HR foam will have give and much greater resilience. There are many relatively low-density, low-quality polyfoams used as components in lower quality mattresses (such as âedge supportâ or âinner pannelsâ) that are very stiff. Just mentioning this because even if the Wright was the same ILD, a higher ILD of the 1.8 could potentially provide a similar overall feel of support (while still being high quality and having similar âresilienceâ)⌠Brooklyn Bedding went with the 36 ILD 1.8 essentially because they felt it was the best balance of density and support/feel in relation to cost and availability.
At the end of the day, I donât really have any experience with feeling a manufacturersâ 1.8 lb next to their 2.4 lb in an equivalent ILD, let alone how it may affect the overall feel of a mattress where the rest of the components are the same, so donât want anyone to jump to conclusions one way or the other. I think we can all agree that 2.4 lb from a given manufacturer is âsaferâ with respect to durability at the least (and may have other properties that make it superior to 1.8 lb) but it seems the statement being made by these manufacturers is that 1.8 lb is âmore than good enoughâ with respect to quality/durability.
I kind of ran away with this farther than intended but all amped up after the Yankees win (sorry to any Cleveland fan out there⌠would have routed for the Indians if they beat us). Itâs an interesting discussion/debate, at least if youâre a mattress nerd like the one Iâve become That said, Iâll defer to Phoenix at this point.
Hi Manimal,
Thanks for your input, and I appreciate you relaying some of the conversations youâve had in the past with different foam and mattress companies.
One thing I would do is place a caution on your statement of what pourers are advising mattress manufacturers, as while you may have had some conversations supporting your comments, there are other foam pourers who differ with those thoughts and advise differently. Iâd also advise a caution on your statements of the reasoning for manufacturers making changes to their products, as unless you were personally involved in the decision-making process with these companies, you would have no first-hand knowledge of such information, although you certainly may have an opinion based upon your talks and experiences.
When statements are made with such certainty on sites like this, readers can often accept them as facts when in some cases they may not be so, and while it may seem a small point to make, on a site such as this where the differentiation between fact and opinion is so important, I feel the need to again point this out, and appreciate you allowing me to do so.
As for your thought on what should be the ânew HD quality standardâ, I appreciate your thoughts and opinion (and as youâre well aware I respect anyoneâs right to disagree), but I wonât be making a change to my recommendations at this time, based upon the thousands of conversations Iâve had with foam pourers and mattress manufacturers. But as foam technology marches on, and more longitudinal data comes in, that of course could change. 
We chatted about this a bit last year.
As always, I appreciate you sharing you thoughts and experiences!
Phoenix
Rrecommended companies that are members on this site have some products that have layers that fall below the durability guidelines as well as local manufacturers with very good reputations who have been in business a long time. A lot of variables with making a mattress as well as buying one. Sometimes choice can be determined by what a person can afford.
Any statement made by anybody can be questioned without physical proof. I also realize people can and do stretch and bend the truth to their advantage. Bottom line is even with recommended companies being vouched for, there is no guarantee the product is everything they claim it is.
2920 says they subjected their mattress to independent 3rd party testing and it exceeded their highest standards. No idea what that involved or what it really means but they do seem sincere about quality.
Hi Phoenix,
Happy to provide some input on the forum as it can be hard to find the time these days. I fully admit to taking some liberty with the presentation, if you will, of my comments at times, so will try to exercise a bit more discretion in that respect. As always, the eloquence, depth and candor of your responses is appreciated.
My original intention (which I kind of got away from) when posting, aside from sharing a couple details about the 2920 mattress, was to open up some further dialogue regarding foam density, especially with respect to mattress cores. Although I of course donât have first-hand knowledge of the âbehind the scenesâ decisions, the information was largely relayed âfrom the horseâs mouthâ, so some horses obviously disagree with others Along with injecting a number of âdisclaimerâ type comments, Iâm very careful (as usual) about throwing names around and try to avoid it altogether unless appropriate. I completely understand and agree with essentially all of your points though, including those inferring my previous comments were made a bit carelessly
One thing I really wanted to get your thoughts on is regarding the 2.4 lb Elite Foam and if it can be considered âHRâ- Iâm not sure what the support factor is and havenât been able to obtain that information. I know you would consider âHRâ foam to normally begin at 2.5 lb density as well but was wondering if this is an âabsoluteâ prerequisite. If not HR, I also wanted to get your thoughts on the 2.4 lb foam properties and if itâs possible it could be similar to HR.
As I think (hope) you know, I have the utmost respect and admiration for you, this site, and those in the mattress community who promote fairness, patience, and quality in regard to both materials and guidance provided to those seeking information.
Thanks!
Manimal
I have done a lot of research of different brands and the specs of the layers. Out of all the mattresses that I have researched, I have seen very few that meet all of the durability guidelines. Even MU recommended online and local companies that are members. Whether it be quilting and/or memory foam or polyfoam layers the majority of what I have seen fall below the durability guidelines. I understand there are a lot of considerations when manufacturing a mattress including cost and price point. I am also not talking about latex.
So, it is very difficult to buy a mattress with the suggested specs. I realize there are different factors involved in choosing a mattress but it is almost like you are going to be making a poor choice in the area of durability.
Hi Napper,
Thanks for your comments.
Depending upon the guidelines youâre referencing (normal or higher BMI, as an example), it certainly can be frustrating when shopping for a mattress, and that of course is part of the reason for the creation of this site, to help point out that there are manufacturers (quite often smaller and more regional or specialized) and retailers who do provide items using higher quality and more durable materials. And the site members here represent a small percentage of those.
Unfortunately, the narrative that is commonly expressed by some manufacturers and retailers that you canât have both good quality and comfort has kept quite a few stores and salespeople in business who sell lower quality items. Most people looking for a mattress want both durability and comfort, and when spending their hard-earned money donât want to settle for something that is âkind of okayâ. Too often retailers set up a false choice between a mattress that is suitable and a mattress that is durable as if they are mutually exclusive, and thatâs a choice that doesnât have to be made. You can have both, but sometimes it will take a bit of looking.
Regarding the guidelines I provide, I am the first to recognize that there is no such thing as âgospelâ when it comes it mattresses which is why I welcome people to post here on the forum. This is how we all learn and keep our learning curves going. This is also the very reason I started this site and is exactly why I provide the reasons behind what I post. The goal of the site is to provide the knowledge that either connects consumers with âmattress peopleâ who already know what they would otherwise need to learn and sell high quality/value mattresses or to provide them with accurate information and bypass the more biased and misleading information that tends to come from people who only promote or recognize the value of what they sell to the detriment of all other choices (no matter where they may come from). In other words, the goal is to inform and âempowerâ people to make up their own mind based on facts and meaningful comparisons instead of the overwhelming amount of misleading and inaccurate information that comes from all sides in this industry.
And while it may be more difficult to find items using better quality materials, factors such as volume of product sold, availability or popularity generally donât rate much of a consideration as compared to the actual make-up of the materials/mattresses along with the research/feedback I receive from my acquaintances within the industry, some of which are considered to be the most highly respected and knowledgeable. But I do not begrudge anyone if they decide to vary from the recommendations I provide, as everyone has their own personal value equation, and in the end I attempt to provide information as to âhowâ to choose, not necessarily âwhatâ.
Thanks!
Phoenix
Hi Manimal,
(Sorry, I missed you post)
No worries! Always nice to have additional input.
Technically, high resilience foam is defined as 2.5 lb in density, at least 60% ball rebound, and a support factor of at least 2.4. You can see the definition in Section IV, number 13, of the IABFLO Classification of Filling Materials. With that being said, Iâve seen manufacturers use the term for slightly lower densities, just as is sometimes seen with âHigh Densityâ polyfoam.
Iâm sorry but Iâm not personally familiar with the specific foam you mentioned, but at a 2.4 lb density it certainly should be considered a more durable polyfoam, but without the ball rebound and support factor you wouldnât know for sure if the classification would be high resilience, but in such a case if someone was looking for a higher quality and durable polyfoam I donât know that they would be as concerned with the labeling and the foam quality. But again, your question would probably be best addressed to someone at Elite in this case versus me because of my lack of familiarity.
Youâre always free to share your findings!
Phoenix