Advice on DIY construction

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
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1

Hello!

My partner and I have gone through five mattresses in the past 1.5 years and have decided it might be time to go the DIY route. We could use some advice on the layering construction.

I’m very petite, 5’1, about 95 lbs. I’m 80% side sleeper, 20% back sleeper. I like the feel of a firm mattress but because of my size and sleeping position, I have a hard time with pressure points, numb arms/hands, etc.

My partner is 5’2, about 125 lbs, mostly a stomach and back sleeper. She also likes the feel of a firm mattress and her primary issue is feeling like her hips are sinking down into the mattress too much. We both dislike memory foam (or anything with a sinking feel) and like to feel more on top of the mattress (with the exception of me wanting to be able to get my shoulder to sink down a bit!).

Our current bed (Saatva Classic Firm with 1" latex topper and 1" bamboo topper) is much too firm. I can’t sleep because it feels like my upper body is fighting the mattress all night, and I wake up every day with a very stiff upper back. Previous mattresses (Casper Hybrid Wave, Purple 2) have felt too soft and caused mid and low back pain. We had a Tuft & Needle Original which I liked but my parter did not. We’ve both liked latex beds we’ve tested in stores (Saatva & Room & Board models).

For our DIY, we’re looking at a 1.9lb (#31 ILD) poly foam base and a 2" soft natural latex for the top layer. For the case, we’re looking at a stretch knit bamboo cover that is quilted over joma wool.

We could use some advice on what to use for the transitional layer between the core poly foam base and the top (soft) latex layer. If latex, what firmness might we want to look at for our respective needs? Is there something other than latex we should consider here? If you have any other overall thoughts or recommendations on the construction, we sincerely appreciate your guidance!

Thanks,
S

2

If you are a side sleeper and she a back and tummy sleeper, do you think you might need a split mattress?

Also, isn’t ILD of #31 soft?
I’m just learning so this is all kind of new to me.

3

Hi sgw, and welcome to The Mattress Underground :slight_smile: welcome to our forum!

My partner and I have gone through five mattresses in the past 1.5 years and have decided it might be time to go the DIY route. We could use some advice on the layering construction.
I’m very petite, 5’1, about 95 lbs. I’m 80% side sleeper, 20% back sleeper. I like the feel of a firm mattress but because of my size and sleeping position, I have a hard time with pressure points, numb arms/hands, etc.
My partner is 5’2, about 125 lbs, mostly a stomach and back sleeper. She also likes the feel of a firm mattress and her primary issue is feeling like her hips are sinking down into the mattress too much.

Whew, sorry to hear about the trouble you are having finding a mattress…5 mattresses in 1.5 years is a lot of breaking in as well as moving mattresses in & out.

As you discovered any mattress you choose will be based on you and your partners’ Stats(height, BMI, sleeping position(s), and any underlying health conditions) and your PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Thanks for providing your Stats, you and your partner have lower BMIs and you have a lot of options that could potentially work. I am glad to see you visited the Tutorial post and the information you need to know.

We both dislike memory foam (or anything with a sinking feel) and like to feel more on top of the mattress (with the exception of me wanting to be able to get my shoulder to sink down a bit!).
Our current bed (Saatva Classic Firm with 1" latex topper and 1" bamboo topper) is much too firm. I can’t sleep because it feels like my upper body is fighting the mattress all night, and I wake up every day with a very stiff upper back. Previous mattresses (Casper Hybrid Wave, Purple 2) have felt too soft and caused mid and low back pain. We had a Tuft & Needle Original which I liked but my parter did not. We’ve both liked latex beds we’ve tested in stores (Saatva & Room & Board models).

A DIY can be the most rewarding, as well as time intensive, options for a sleep system. It sounds like you have a good start on the project, the 1.9 lb/31 ILD poly foam is of good density and firmness for a support layer for your stated preferences. If possible, you might want to try out latex mattresses at local showrooms of a few firmness levels to see how they feel. Also keep in mind Talalay Latex is considered ‘bouncier’ than Dunlop which is more ‘settled’ (the usual comparison is between angel food cake and pound cake), so you both might want to try both types as you ‘zero in’ on firmness level for a comfort level that accommodates both your shoulders and your partners hips sinking to the preferred levels. The stretch knit bamboo cover with joma wool adds a breathable layer between you and the topper which is also good.

We could use some advice on what to use for the transitional layer between the core poly foam base and the top (soft) latex layer. If latex, what firmness might we want to look at for our respective needs? Is there something other than latex we should consider here? If you have any other overall thoughts or recommendations on the construction, we sincerely appreciate your guidance!

As you have such difference between sleeping styles you may want to consider a split/ side-by-side mattress to accommodate your individual needs and preferences. As a low range BMI and 80% side sleeper you may need a bit more comfort (maybe an inch or so of medium transition layer to borrow some support and get more comfort. Your partner however as a prone sleeper would need a firmer sleepoing surface to avoid hyperextension of the spine. I’d say get same thickness layer so that the mattress has the same height for both but a firmer ILD.

As for an additional layer, yes you can add a ‘transition’ layer of latex or another foam if desired; but you should try it without first to see how it feels on your pressure points - but only you can decide on the right firmness for you both, the one drawback of DIY is that it can take a bit of trial and error to find the perfect combo. If you go with a soft topper, a medium firm transition layer of latex or some other foam might suit you. You can read more about layers from @Phoenix.

A number of the Trusted Members of the site like DIY Natural Bedding, Latex Mattress Factory, and FloBeds,
Among others, offer DIY components and latex toppers. I think with a little more research you will have the ideal DIY bed!

~ Basilio

4

Thanks Basilio! I’ve been spending a lot of time on here and have learned a ton in the last few days.

Given how different our needs/preferences have been, I’ve been realizing this is a great opportunity for us to realize customize our respective sides – so thanks for confirming that. One concern we’ve had with a split is the (literal) split in the middle of the mattress. Is it important to have one continuous top layer if we can manage it? Or would glueing the top layer (once we’ve gotten it right) solve that issue?

I’m also curious whether you have any idea where I could purchase a layer of Talalay that is softer than 18/19 ILD? I’m pretty sure I’ve looked at all of the trusted retailers on the site but haven’t seen anything lower than that.

5

Hi sgw,

Glad you are finding a lot of info on the site!

Good choice! A split king is great for allowing each sleeper to customize their own side of the mattress;
Putting both sides in the same cover will keep the layers from shifting and creating any gap. Layer shifting would usually happen for restless sleepers that tend to move a lot during sleep. Additionally, as you say a common top layer will make this invisible and help keeping it in place. The foam has a lot of friction and it usually needs waving to make it move. Depending on your frame or base, the ‘rails’ keeping the mattress on the frame may keep them together. The quilted bamboo cover quite Joma wool you mentioned should act as a sort of ‘buffer’ as well, giving the mattress a solid profile on top. The layers can also be glued if you choose, but that would prevent any layer fine tuning or adjustment in the future should the need arise. You both have low BMI’s and even if you chose not to take any preemptive gap mitigation, depending on how much the two of you move, the split is likely to not be an issue at all.

ILD, or Indentation Load Deflection (also called IFD, indentation force deflection) is an industry standard of measurement to determine a foam’s given firmness. Weight is applied to the surface of a foam piece. The more weight needed to depress the foam, the higher the I.L.D. number and firmness of the foam. While as you have seen, most latex toppers are over 18 ILD, Trusted Member SleepEZ, among others, offers a soft Talalay and Talalay and wool topper… Also, I did see a 2" Talalay Topper on Amazon that’s listed as 14-19 ILD. Foamonline lists a High Resilience foam they carry as ILD 10, and offers memory foam at 15 ILD…those are some of the softest foams that appear to be available…but at such low densities you may feel lack of secondary support for the recessed areas of your body as you will sink down quite far in the foam, which can affect posture alignment. It sounds like you both are ‘dialing in’ the correct components so far!

~ Basilio

6

Thanks Basilio! We ended up driving out to CST in CT (we’re in NYC) and Bob was very helpful. He’s making me a custom topper that is 14 ILD in the upper 1/3 and 19 ILD for the rest. We also discovered that my partner really dislikes the feel of Talalay, which was information to get. (Highly recommend Bob/CST to anyone who is interested in making a fully customizable latex bed!)

Based on my partner’s preferences, we’ve decided to go for an innerspring base instead of HD foam. We went with the Caliber Edge 6" Pocket Coil by Leggett and Platt from diymattress.net. We’ll then be putting 3-4" of our preferred latex on our respective sides.

Do you have any advice on how many inches of buffer we need underneath the coils (between the coils and the mattress cover)? Would 1" of HD polyfoam be sufficient? Foam Online lists an Extra Firm Polyfoam (which, if I’m reading this correctly, would be about 58 ILD). The mattress itself is going on top of a wood slat foundation. We’d like to keep it at 1" to keep our bed at 10" but we could go up to 2" if necessary.

Thanks again for your help! This forum is amazing.

7

Hi sgw,

Great to hear of your good experience with CST. Sounds like a good mattress plan!

Basically there’s no harm in putting a layer of HD foam under the coil layer, but I checked with Ken at DIY Mattress and he agreed that the Caliber Edge pocket could do not need an additional base, it will be perfectly fine to have them as bottom layer in mattress cover directly on slatted frame. Make sure the slats are spaced at 2.5 inches or less. Please let us know your experience with your new mattress once you’ve had some time with it.

~ Basilio

8

Hi Basilio,

Thanks so much for this. I’ve tried reaching Ken multiple times but haven’t gotten a reply (tried both phone and email).

My slats are actually just over 3.5" apart. How does that change the calculus here?

9

Hi sgw,
Normal recommendations are for no more than 3" spacing max between slats, with a center brace…tighter spacing is preferable but not absolutely necessary. You should check with CST on their recommended bases, just to make sure you don’t void any warranty or exchange policies. For latex and lower BMI sleepers you should not have any issues, but can certainly put a bunker board or HD foam layer on top of the slats if you want.

~ Basilio

10

Hello –

Posting an update of our setup with a new question. My partner and I now have a DIY that we’re both really happy with, except she’s added an additional layer which has made her side about 2" taller than mine. I’m trying to figure out what I can add on my side for height that would have the least impact on the feel. I wish we had done a split core so that I could add to the bottom, but that ship has sailed. @phoenix any chance you could weigh in on this?

Our current configuration is:

BASE/CORE
1" HR polyfoam bottom layer
6" Caliber Edge Pocket Coils

Me:
1" Sleep On Latex Dunlop “soft” (they say it’s 20 ILD but it seems much firmer) transition layer
2" CST Talalay 14 ILD (top 1/3) 19 ILD (bottom 2/3) comfort layer

Annie:
2" Sleep On Latex Dunlop “soft” transition layer
1.4" Turmerry convoluted Dunlop “medium” comfort layer
2" bamboo pillowtop comfort layer

Thanks!

EDIT:
I’ve tried borrowing her layers –
-The additional 1" sleep on latex made my side too firm
-The 1.4" medium turmerry layer also seemed like it made my side a bit too firm
-Additionally, I tried a 2.4" convoluted soft turmerry layer we have laying around, and that made my side way too soft; caused sinking and back pain.