Advice on new mattress that I'm considering, please.

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
56

Scubamom,
From your description of the foundations they appear to be PLB foundations. Their twin foundations may be manufactured by a different company than their queen foundation. Could be the reason why the top is not covered by a piece of corrugated cardboard and there is 9" spaces between the slats. I calculated ~7" spaces between the slates on my queen foundation, still way too much for a heavy latex mattress. Try contacting a PLB CSR about this.

Correct me if I’m wrong, you are saying that each twin foundation has a center head to foot support; unlike my queen foundation that has 2 head to foot supports (not counting the side supports), neither of which is in the center.

Let me try to clarify this. If each twin foundation also has a center head to toe support then, including the side supports, each foundation would have 3 head to toe supports, 6 total for both. My queen foundation has, including the side supports, 4 head to toe supports.

So we are back then to what type of steel frame you have supporting the foundations. This is the steel frame I’m currently using. I purchased it before I got the PLB foundation assuming that the foundation would have a conventional center head to toe support. Due to PLB’s unconventional foundation design the head to toe supports rest on the cross rails, not the center beam. The frame though is heavy duty so I’m not getting any sagging. With your foundations this type of frame would possibly work well since 1 side of each foundation would rest on the center beam.

Is your current steel frame strong enough to give proper support to the sleeping area of the foundation??

If I knew then what I know now I would have purchased either this foundation or this foundation without a steel frame.

57

Yes, you have the right idea with “should be” 3 head to toe on each side for a total of 6 for the king.

What we DO have is on the left foundation one head to toe 21" over (39" frame) and another 6" over… only TWO on that side and not in the center or spaced in any form that makes sense. On the right foundation, one head to toe is about 22" over and about 6" over from that… only TWO not centered or spaced evenly.

We also have staples sticking up around the inside edge of the foundation bottom here and there that are wearing through the fabric and possibly the mattress when it is put back into place.

Definitely a sloppy built set of foundations!

Our mattress store (3 hours away from me) and I have decided that we should buy a tempurpedic set of ECRU (not the new grey) foundations to put under it and see what happens. I’ll save the PLB foundations and we’ll get them back to the store when either we head up there or they come this way.

Now, whether the mattress is now “bent out of shape” permanently from being on the incomplete foundations we won’t know until we get the solid ones under it.

Our mattress business is still having trouble getting PLB to return their calls. They’ve been carrying the PLB line for at least 3 years as I remember which is the first time we started buying mattresses from them.

58

This sounds like a plan to see if the mattress recovers.

59

We really do not have any room on our floors for it, plus wouldn’t be able to physically move it. Either way we will have to have a foundation of some sort to put it on while we sort this out. Sleeping on it might actually help see what happens. (and we are of the age that we can’t really get on a floor bed or back up very easily!)

If it doesn’t recover, they will replace it and we can use the solid top Tempurpedic foundation with whatever we put on it (be it another Beautiful or whatever).

From what I’ve seen of our half built PLB foundation, I"m not sure I’d want to use any of theirs.

UPDATE: The new foundation is coming tomorrow… as the mattress company recommended, we are getting the older, heavy built Ecru ones what weigh 144# for both (72# each) rather than the newer more lightweight “Grey” ones that are 98# for both. Supposedly the older model ones are built quite well.

Can hardly wait to see what the poor bent out of shape mattress does on it. Let’s hope it is so happy to be flat that it does a tap dance and gets back to normal! (so hubby and I can get back to normal and loving it as our best bed ever!)

more to come…

60

We now have the Tempurpedic foundations under the PLB Beautiful - they appear to be solid - some sort of fiber board on top and with the knee test, it didn’t give much.

We kept the PLB foundations ( which do not have the corrugated cardboard tops) for proof of defectiveness. I easily deconstructed the underside by removing a few staples across the top and halfway along the sides of the black cloth which is about the weight of a mens work shirt. The sides are covered with the same thick knit fabric (excellent quality) of the mattress which is sewn to a somewhat thick canvass type fabric (not cotton).

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I uploaded some photos and as you can see, there is NO solid top on these foundations, only the top fabric which is now saggy and stretched with our body contours. I included one of my hip area - the shadow somewhat shows (but not as much as in person) one of the deepest sag/bags.

Overall, the foundation seems heavy duty enough - I cannot determine if the cardboard top would have covered the entire top frame or dropped down in it… there appears to be about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap between the slats and the top rim of the frame. The slat spacing varies between 7" to 10". Despite the thickness of this mattress, there is no doubt that after 6 weeks, the mattress was sagging into the spaces between the slats and middle support - we both had to move around trying to find a spot where the mattress felt comfortable. It FELT like we were either on a slat, center support, or a sag… another reason besides the visual hill/valley top of the bed to suspect a foundation problem.

Now that it is on a firm, flat base, the mattress seems confused… it is still holding the same ridge hump and sagging centers on each side, but maybe it will relax in a few days. Meanwhile, I didn’t relax last night… it doesn’t feel like it did the first 6 weeks when we loved it… still feels out of sorts. My hips seem to be resting on concrete and no matter how I move, it doesn’t have the nice support and pressure relief it did back then. :frowning:

61

Hi scubamom,

I don’t think there is any doubt that the reasons for the issues you have been having are in the foundation.

As you mentioned they are made from fiberboard and they are certainly strong and solid with no flex. The only down side is that they have a solid surface which limits airflow under the mattress (see post #10 here).

There is no doubt that the Tempurpedic foundation will change the feel of your mattress compared even to your defective foundation when it was new (your mattress would have been sagging into the gaps from the beginning even if there were no visible sags).

The latex itself shouldn’t be damaged but the layers may have shifted or bunched because of the defective foundation underneath it. I would give things a week or two to see if it “recovers” and evens out again. I would also make sure you sleep on the parts with the ridges as much as possible.

I would also email PLB with your pictures and a description of the issues you have been having (and I would also include that your retailer has been having trouble getting them to return calls) and ask them about the options you have available if your mattress doesn’t recover in a week or two.

Phoenix

62

Well, the good news is that we figured it out! Thanks to you and all the help on this forum! Thanks to BobP too.

The bad news is that the bed still feels like it did on the PLB foundations, other than my back isn’t out quite as much as it has been. That said, the pressure on my hips and legs is the same - rendering muscle spasms during the night and all the next day! I’ve been the masseuse and chiropractor more times in the last 6 weeks than in 2 years combined!

When I get back in the slightly lumpy Simmons, I’m much better. May have to stay in that bed until we see if the PLB settles down.

Meanwhile, I’ll call my dealer and send photos… if they don’t get a response, I’ll contact PLB. Probably do well to give the bed a few days to see what it does.

63

Hi scubamom,

You may need to go through a new “adjustment” period now that you have a solid foundation.

I’m looking forward to finding out whether your mattress is “recovering” over the next week or so and how things work out for you.

Phoenix

64

Scubamom,
Great pics. Add another center head to toe beam to your full foundation and you have my PLB queen foundation with a piece of cardboard on top. My foundation lasted about 10 months before it started to make loud creaking noises. From your pics I can see why, it’s nailed not screwed together. PLB replaced it with the SAME foundation. We will see how long this one lasts.

You would think that a company that makes a great latex mattress would pair it with a strong adequate foundation. I assumed that who would know better what foundation would be suitable for their mattress than the mattress manufacturer. In this case a bad assumption.

Don’t forget to save the law tags on the PLB foundations and mattress. If you do decide to file a warranty claim with them a picture of them is required.

Hopefully your PLB mattress will recover.

65

Thanks for the heads up on the law tags! I took pictures of both of them. Both made in numerical sequence 3/17/14 in NC… wonder how many others on that day had the tops left off!

Actually, with a bit of cross bracing here and there plus a 1/2" plywood top, they might turn into really great foundations. If we were going to keep them, I’d probably have a carpenter do that. Be easy to strip the cover off and beef it up, then put the cover back on (with a heavy duty bottom fabric sealing it up).

While we are working with this problem, the other problem is our second PLB Beautiful at our 2nd home does not feel like this one at all! When we LIKED this one the first 6 weeks (support and pressure relief), the other seemed a LOT softer. If this one is rated an 8, we’d rate the 2nd one close to a 10. The one here feels like the floor model at the store - an 8.

The mattress company knows this but we haven’t been back up to the other house to meet with them on it.

So, as you can imagine, we are a bit skiddish of whether we want to keep either one! Could the quality control make two mattresses vary that much? With all the problems we are having, honestly, I’m not sure what we should do.

But we’ll see what this mattress does in the next week or so. We are so tired of moving back and forth between the PLB and our Simmons, it’s enough to make us bonkers! :frowning:

66

Hi scubamom,

It would be hard to know how much difference the foundation made in how the two mattresses compare because it would certainly make some difference so it may be worth waiting a week or so to see how they compare then now that you have the foundation issue solved. I’m also assuming that they are the same mattress and that you didn’t get the wrong mattress with one of them by mistake which would also be a possibility.

If there is a significant difference between them it may be worthwhile comparing both mattresses by themselves and then both mattresses with the topper to see if you can isolate which one is contributing to any difference between them.

Other possible causes that could contribute to a different “feel” could be your mattress protector or your sheets.

If there are no other obvious causes either above or below the mattress then it’s certainly possible that one of them was somehow made with the wrong layers although this wouldn’t be common.

If that turns out to be the case I think it would qualify as one of those “when it rains it pours” set of circumstances :frowning: .

Phoenix

67

The 2nd home bed is on a solid top (custom made like a tank) platform - I saw this being built, so know it will never sag, creak or whatever. Same protector, same sheets, same pillows, same 2" PLB fast release topper.

We originally bought two Simmons - one for here and one for there… it was odd, sometimes we’d wake up and not know which house we were at because the beds were so much alike (until they started getting a few depressions on my pillowtop plush comfort level 8 side - hubby’s firm side comfort level about 3-4 really never changed in three years).

After they delivered the 2nd home PLB Beautiful and it was so soft, best I could guess it was closer to a world’s best with that top soft layer OR maybe more like the former Beautiful (didn’t it have an ILD of 19 instead of 21?). For the first 3 weeks, we had a Nature with the 2" PLB bliss topper - too hard for both of us… then I added a 19 ILD under the 2" bliss topper and it was too soft - no support. We did a comfort exchange for the Beautiful and liked it so well that the next month, we bought it to replace the Simmons at the 2nd home.

The one up there almost feels like the Nature with the 19 ILD and 2" topper, Or maybe the one down here is firmer than “normal” Beautiful. ACK! Wish there were an ILD (what is it) test we could do on both the beds. :slight_smile:

Both are 12" tall. Both say Beautiful.

We’ll stay on the Simmons a few nights to let the PLB “rest” and then try it again. We’ll get back up to the second home next month and see what that one has done and feels like again.

Yeah, when it rain’s it pours… the mattress gods are truly mad at us! :frowning:

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Hi scubamom,

That rules out some of the “other” possibilities so the two most likely causes are either the foundation you were having issues with affected your perception of how they compared or they are actually different.

2 ILD is less than most if not all people would be able to feel and is less than the normal ILD variation across the surface of a typical latex layer. The Old Beautiful (see the specs here) also had an inch less latex in the middle 24 ILD layer layer than the current Beautiful (see the specs here) which would have a firming effect.

Phoenix

69

Update: A week later, the mattress is still confused and looks like it did when it was on the defective foundation - middle hill + two valleys + raised ridge around the edge of the bed. If anything, it’s fluffed up a tiny bit (if I use my imagination!) :slight_smile: We slept on it last night and it wasn’t too bad - horrid pressure on shoulders, hips, and legs weren’t like they were on the crazy defective foundation, but it appears to have lost it’s “Beautiful” feel.

I sent all the photos and information to our mattress store and he’s offered to replace it. We think we might have enough to file a warranty claim on the defective foundations and damage they did to the poor mattress. I assume PLB is now getting their act together a bit better than a month or two ago?

If we do this, I’ll be interested to see if it is “soft” like the one at our second home, or feels like this one DID and the one on the mattress company’s floor - lots of support, comfort, and pressure relief. In other words… truly a Beautiful Bed! :slight_smile:

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Hi scubammom,

That probably depends on who you talk to because the feedback from retailers seems to be somewhat mixed (see here).

Did you happen to contact PLB themselves?

Phoenix

71

Just talked to our mattress company and they planned to replace the PLB Beautiful with a Simmon’s Black Kate Plush which they have in stock - they are still having problems getting PLB to respond to anything - phone or faxes and reluctantly are thinking of dropping the line.

SO… if others are waiting 6 weeks to receive their mattresses we are back to decision time. Guess I’ll go try a Black Kate, but others said they fail within the first year. ACK!

Our daughter just purchased a Simmons Black Hope Firm… here’s what the tag says (so you can check out the foam types)

Quilt:
3/4" Geltouch Foam 1.5LB
1" Luxury Firm foam 1.65LB

Comfort layers:
1/2" Aircool Memory Foam 2.1LB
1/2" Micro Diamond infused aircool memory foam 4.5LB
1 1/2" Micro Pocket Coil 17 gauge
1/2" Dynamic Response Memory Foam 3.2LB
Bottom upholstery (below comfort layers)
1 1/2" 1.2LB energy foam

Support 13.5 gauge

NOTE: The Black Kate is somewhat the same other than coils are 14.75 gauge and it has an additional 2" Aircool Memory Foam in comfort layer over the microcoils

Sounds like a lot of complicated layers to me!!

72

Hi scubamom,

Comparing the specs to the guidelines here indicates that there are certainly enough “questionable” and lower quality/density materials in the comfort layers that would likely be a weak link in this mattress … especially for a mattress in this price range … that it would be a very risky purchase.

With an additional 2" of lower quality/density materials in the comfort layers … the Kate would be even riskier yet.

Phoenix

73

Well, hubby thinks PLB is a lost cause for getting this one replaced and the mattress company WOULD try to order a new one, but who knows when or if we’d ever get one. Such a problem since we really liked the Beautiful.

At this point, since we have a free exchange on both PLB, I don’t think we have a choice. I went and tried a Simmons Black Kate Plush locally… it’s only been on the floor two weeks and felt much firmer (not as soft) as the Beautiful + 2" PLB topper, but the sales person said it had not broken in yet. At least the comfort rating is the same as the PLB and all the other mattresses we’ve tried over the last 4 month! Probably like comparing apples to oranges spring -vs- foams, but it is what it is.

Hubby said looks like we should take the Blacks… see how long they last - year or two or so and at that time, maybe there will be more options out there… more latex mattresses to choose from, etc.

Are any of these retailers you have contact with actually receiving mattresses from PLB? If there was any hope we might get a replacement in the next few weeks, I’d hold out for PLB, but otherwise, we can’t go without a decent place to sleep much longer. :frowning:

74

Hi scubamom,

It may be worthwhile talking with some of the online PLB dealers that are listed in post #32 here to see if they are having the same issues with their PLB deliveries.

Phoenix

75

We had the damaged PLB Beautiful mattress and defective foundations picked up by the mattress company yesterday. Their mouths dropped open when they saw the poor saggy mattress, still with a hill in the middle and “hammocks” on each side. We all agreed that somehow the centers (from top to bottom) had compressed into firm “valleys” of latex, whereas the “hill” was the only part that remained springy (I’ve been sleeping in the center for the last two weeks… the only place that felt half comfortable).

They also couldn’t believe there was no solid top on the foundations! The fabric was so saggy between the slats that it’s little wonder the mattress was bent out of shape permanently. Too bad it took us a month to figure it all out but the damage was probably done by the 2nd or 3rd week we had it, even though it felt wonderful for the first 5-6 weeks.

They said that they were selling off all the PLB floor models since they are still having no luck reaching anyone to take orders, discuss business with, or talk to about any problems. The few times they manged to get through, call backs were promised and it never happened. Or “the person they needed to talk to was out of the office”. They have given up and had no interest even trying to reorder the Beautiful or even try to file a claim.

Which left us with the Simmons Black Kate. :frowning: It has so much puff and fluff on the top that it is an unbelievable 16" of hulking monster!! Comfort rating 8+ (the same as the Beautiful with our 2" PLB topper). Alas, we loved our latex while it lasted and now have to get used to a spring bed again.

First off, I woke up at 2 am bathed in memory foam fumes! UGH! I still smell like memory foam 12 hours later. Took everything off the bed, put in an air filter machine and turned the ceiling fan to high all day. Washed all the bedding. It’s not quite as strong tonight, but I know I’m going to be sleeping in fumes again for awhile. (unless I move back upstairs yet again for several nights).

And once again, I’m sleeping HOT! The PLB mattress was not hot and not cold, just perfect. Sigh.

Maybe next week I’ll try to contact all those companies in your post who carry PLB and see what the chances are of getting another Beautiful anytime soon.

We still have one Beautiful at our second home… so will have to decide whether to change it to a off gassing spring Simmons… or search for another Beautiful and this Black can go to the guest room.

Or if all else fails, maybe we can build a Beautiful. Has anyone actually “built” a mattress that feels like one of the PLBs?