After a lot of reading stil have questions.

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

Hello ,

i have discovered this site 3 days ago and i cannot stop reading articles all day here , not just because i am looking for the best matress possible (like everyone i suppose), but i like the technical scientifical approach taken here. That beiing said , i would like to ask for your patience for my english since I live in Quebec and don’t use it as often as i would like.

Allright now after reading hundreds of posts, i have quickly cancelled my order of the lucid all foam mattress from amazon when i realized that none of the material were indicated in full détail. I currently have a single postuperdic sealy (5 years ) old , i always found it kind of firm since i mostly sleep on my side ( 5ft 10 -175 pounds). After analysing a bunch of foam matrresses from icomfort to dreamfoam , and quebec retailers I decide it that i would be better off with simply latex (for better price- quality)

I narrowed down my choices like many other on this forum fairly similarly :

1- Twin Naturalux Latex Set,
its a twin natural latex with 2 inch of latex talalay 100 pour-cent naturel.
im leaning for soft with maybe an extra inch for a total of 3 (not sure about this however if it will effect the experience dramaticelly)
as for the base i think i will sélect it médium or firm , they are givign the LLD but im not sure what combination is better soft-medium, soft firm, why not soft soft?

the set with the wooden base is at 850

2- I eliminated the dreamfoam latex line since there base is now at 1.5 lbs-cu wich is a down side for durability and a risk

3- Sleep Ez has some good matresses but i dont want to have multiple layera and i feel martress net offers the same materials for cheaper without too much custimization. A similar set in Sleep Ez than choice number 1 would be around 1100.

4- If I want to save even more since im kind of on a budget i am considering
Eco Sleep Mattress With A Superior Bamboo Cover

with Eco Sleep Hybrid Latex / Pocket Coil Mattress, Latex Mattresses-Talalay and Dunlop, All Products,

so basicelly im leaning toward choices 1-4 not sure about the topper 2 inch vs 3 inch…
not sure about the layers i sleep on my side so im guessing soft-medium
also not sure if an 8 inch mattress is has a good durability
my sealy has now almost 10 years and its not the most comfortable thing but it has good durability.

I want to make the right choice at the right price , ordering online is kind of risky but i want to sears , and retailers here and i wasent blown away by anything so figured i would just go for the best materials possible, Will probably get the 8 inch latex at number 1 or 10 in a few weeks or days.

if anyone can let me know if im making a good choice or if I should look elswhere aswell , tanks

2

Hi KrazyPanda,

Unfortunately you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved to be able to predict with any certainty which combination of layers will be the best match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or “theory at a distance”. When you can’t test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer (such as Mattresses.net) who can help “talk you through” the options they have available based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done (assuming you know the firmness of all the layers in the mattresses you have tested which may not always be possible to find out), and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

There is also more about the different ways to choose a mattress (online or locally) and how to minimize the risks involved in each of them in post #2 here.

There is also more about some of the differences between a latex/polyfoam hybrid and an all latex mattress in post #2 here.

The thickness of a mattress has very little to do with its durability since durability depends on the construction of the mattress and the type and quality of the materials inside it. There is more about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to different people in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

Neither of the two mattresses you are considering would have any weak links in their design.

There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

When you are down to finalists that have eliminated all your less desirable choices (either in terms of suitability, durability, or value) and you are down to choices that are between “good and good” and there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any one of them would probably be a good choice for you and your final choice (see post #2 here) will really come down to “best judgement” based on all the objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

As you know I think very highly of Arizona Premium and they are a member of the site which means that I believe they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.

Only you can decide whether you wish to include any other options in your research or if you are satisfied with the options you have already considered but if you do decide to look at others then the tutorial post includes several links to lists of the better online options I’m aware of (in the optional online step) and post #276 here also includes a list of the factory direct manufacturers I’m aware of in Quebec as well.

Phoenix

3

thanks these were interesting reads. SO im guessing that based on the proper layer construction wich is either progressive (soft-mid-firm) or opposite soft -firm , there would be a different effect on the user. I was considering aswell just buying any Eurotop Sealy and adding a 2 inch latex all natural i found here:

It would not respect the step 3 in the rules of looking for a new mattress, and actually i would put a soft 22 LLD topper latex talalay on a plus eurotop so SOfT on SOft layer…wich im not sure if it would be a waste of money …

Otherwise im reading a lot on the Casper its not a true latex option but maybe with the all natural latex toper 2 inch i would get a similar result.

Its hard to try these configurations in the stores since they only have big brand names…wich is why im asking a lot of questions.

still very confused but maybe ill read more infos on the site before making a final décision, thx for the help

4

Hi KrazyPanda,

Every layer in a mattress will have some effect on every other layer and the mattress as a whole. I would also keep in mind that there is no “proper” layering construction … there is only a layering and construction that is “best for you” in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressuere relief, and Personal preferences) regardless of whether it is a progressive construction or a more simple differential construction or any other type of design.

[quote]I was considering aswell just buying any Eurotop Sealy and adding a 2 inch latex all natural i found here:
canada.foambymail.com/LTX_T/talalay-latex-foam-topper.html[/quote]

I certainly wouldn’t consider a Sealy mattress (see the guidelines here) and I also would tend to avoid buying a mattress with the intent of adding a topper unless you can test the specific mattress/topper combination in person to make sure that it’s a good match for you in terms of PPP (see post #2 here).

I would also read this post and this post and this topic (about their polyfoam and sources) and this post (presumably from a past employee) before buying anything from FBM or considering them as a reliable supplier. They don’t sell Talalay latex … they only say they do.

Phoenix

5

I found this

everything seems legit i will buy that cut it with sizer for a full bed

http://www.cgmattress.com/pd.6101/1019/2-talalay-latex-topper-19-ild

is this a scam too?

if not its an amazing price !!! all tallalay

6

Hi KrazyPanda,

It certainly seem legit to me and would be a good price for a blended Talalay topper if it’s the full cal king and not just half of a split. If this is the Talalay GL fast response then it would be 15 ILD but the difference is fairly small. PLB discontinued their 2" toppers so this is probably the reason they are clearing them out. It’s listed as a split cal king so I would make sure that it includes both halves of a cal king not just one half.

Phoenix

7

allright i will get one than i think it is only half , I emailed them and made an offer (cause u can counteroffer there deal on prices)
so the set up i went with is actually not recommended here on this site but i figures for 400 dollar plus 200 dollar topper its the best i can do…

its a kingdown mattress
wich has 0.5 latex posturized (no idea what this but worst case its synthetic)
on top of 3 convulated foam comfort
i dont think they are weak links but i wanted t a minimal set up on top of pocket colis compared to the 4-5-6 layers from other brands that people seem to love gel over latex- over memory etc…i went with a basic set up and hophelly my topper upgrade will do magic…? I think it will be a good combo since adding soft on firm is widely popular and multiple good choice mattresses do so on this site …comfort is for me the softest part , support the hardest.

I will add therefore a 19 ild or 22 ild latex wich will make a 2.5 blend synthetic latex on the foam wich should be enough for a good set im hoping if it dosent work i might change all of this but i really didnt want to pay around 1000 and couldnt find a dealer in the us that wouldnt charge shipping, in canada u can get a mattress with some good latex i think in ikea but its at 1000 without the foundation …so i made a 600 close to good quality i suppose if it dosent work well i have 365 exchange ill just bring my topper to the store lol and try everything out. The reason i did this is I saw from multiple companys including dreamfoam hybrids were they bascielly put latex on pocket colis and people like it so i figured this bed (kingsdown ) as pocket coils aswell and a small 3 inch foam convulated of whatever (its just there for a inbetween absorption layer so figure it is less firm than the support and on top a médium -firm latex only .5 so like i said in theory adding in 2.0 inch latex topper will make it very close to the hybrids latex pocket colis that are recommanded on some posts…anyways will see if its true the 13th…

ts kind of a trial and error thing and i dont know precisely how the combination of material will add up but i think that adding latex on latex will only be a good thing since all latex beds have latex layers anyways and that’s how they are build on paper.Ill go the softest possible to respect the construction methods ellaborated in some posts so 19 to 22 ild (close to médium)

will see how it turns out…but its a disaster well i might just buy an all latex …and break the bank

here is another one : Pure Green Natural Latex Mattress Topper | SleepOnLatex.com

8

Hi KrazyPanda,

I would make sure that you know the type and density of this because it would almost certainly be a weak link in the mattress which means that it could soften or break down much too quickly relative to the price you paid for it. Of course it’s always up to you but I would never buy a mattress with 3" of unknown materials in the comfort layers and this would be a very risky purchase.

Phoenix

9

concerning the toppers :

im finding a lot of sites with cheap prices:

any différences from buying here at 150 insted of 400 at sleep ez or other ones…it seems its pretty similar blendes or not , i mean i found 100 pour-cent natural for almost 200 less than some recommanded sites, how can u know if its a scam…is there a list on the site for best topper companies? sorry i used the search and cant find an official list yet. will keep searching, so thx for all the info, sorry if this is allready treated elsewhere…

10

Hi KrazyPanda,

A latex topper that is the “best value” for you would all depend on the type and blend of latex that you prefer and whether you are making apples to apples comparisons and on all the other criteria that are important to you (including any return or exchange policies in case you make a “mistake” in your choice). There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here.

The component list here includes the better online sources for toppers that I’m aware of. I would consider all the suppliers on the list to be reliable and they will give you accurate information about the toppers they sell.

Your search seems to have switched directions. Are you looking for a mattress or a topper?

If you are looking for a topper then post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to has more information about choosing a topper that will help you use your sleeping experience on a mattress as a reference point to help you decide on the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that would have the best chance of success on the mattress you would be using it on.

Phoenix

11

Yes good observation i did change direction since i settled for the kingdown sonomia ii, even if the 3 inch confort zone as an mysterious density…LIke u mentionner it might be a weak link but underneath there is like 900 pocket colis springs to support (so even if the foam collapses im still on a good amount of springs,

Based on dreamfoam set up for latex they use no comfort zone
Plus i like the idea of having an hybride , i agree that big companys dont always give out there densitys and all the technical information but some Simmons have like 5 layers of foam , memory , latex, and the colis underneath, this gives an interesting mixture and its harder to analyze the more layers there is my bed has like 1 layer…so its like less hard to figure out…But they are constantly changing the layers patterns and studying the technologies to make a good comfort zone , im pretty sure Simmons is trying there best to make very comfortable beds, but has for there durability well this is also luck related i know a of people who kept there beds for 20 years so if the fabrics are the same in all the lines except some defect ones , i think its a safe buy even if u dont consider the density , with warranty now a day even if the bed is not durable u get a new one…I want to support more underground companys too but i dont think the big brands are a bad choice even , part of them not wanting to give out the density is to not reveal there production strategys to the compétition, just trying to look at things from another angle.

Based on dreamfoam set up for latex they use no comfort zone and its more pricy …here in canada

12" Thick Pocketed Coil Pillow Top Mattress with Latex!
2 Inches of Premium 19 ILD Talley Latex!
Extra Pressure Point Relief from the Latex in the Pillow Top
Pocketed Coils will reduce or eliminate motion transfer between sleeping parents
100% Made in the USA with US made Comprenons

i figured my set up is exactly the same as the hybrid latex ones except for the 3 inch foam and .5 latex on top ,
I just opted for this option since its a 300 dollar différence, that i saved to buy the topper now im on that topic trying to find the best deal this is the best i found the shipping to canada is 50 but i asked them if they could lower it since its 30 pour-cent of the whole price …sux to live in canada lol

sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress-topper: im afraid to buy from here its reaaly cheaper and not even on sale

thx for the topper guide lists and other infos on that subject ill look into it before making a décision for sure.

12

Hi KrazyPanda,

This is a very risky choice and I think that you may come to regret it sooner than you may believe. The upper layers are the weakest link of a mattress and if they soften or compress prematurely then no matter what is underneath it you can lose the comfort/support that is the reason you purchased the mattress in the first place. Again … this is a very risky choice that I would strongly suggest you reconsider.

I’m not sure what you mean by this. All their mattresses have comfort layers.

I’m not sure how you came to believe all of this but it certainly isn’t accurate and it also doesn’t reflect the facts and history of the industry over the last 15 - 20 years (see post #15 here and post #404 here and post #12 here among many others on the forum that discuss this).

I would also read post #174 here about warranties because they only cover defects and not the loss (sometimes rapid) of comfort and/or support that is the main reason that people normally need to replace their mattress. Warranties have very little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or “getting a free mattress” during the warranty period if you can no longer sleep well on it.

Of course you are always free to decide on any purchase based on what you believe regardless of its accuracy but you are heading in a very risky direction and the least I can do is caution you so at least you have the chance to reconsider your options.

The mattress shopping tutorial also includes this link to a list of some of the better online options that ship across Canada.

Phoenix

13

ok thank u

since im in the toppers zone:

TALALAY INTERNATION WITH FILLERS
Natural blended Talalay 40 % Natural latex / 60 % binders and fillers= Weak link?
its from here: Natural Latex Mattress & Organic Bed Topper | Soft. Medium. Firm | MFC
at 239$ CDN
ILD 20 so guessing talalay international based of the ild chart in the link above
even if there are fillers is it considered synthetic or are fillers some other cheaper product?

VS

RADIUM TALALAY NO FILLERS
In comparaison, this one here says there is no fillers but a mix of natural and synthétique
https://sleeponlatex.com/products/plush-latex-mattress-topper
im guessing its Radium talalay-at 199 US

any thoughts on the better value in terms of quality of material and durability ?
this is very confusing dont know wich one as the better value

14

Hi KrazyPanda,

The latex you are looking at from Sleep On Latex is a blended continuous pour Dunlop (Puralux) which is generally a blend of 20% natural and 80% synthetic rubber. It is among the lowest cost versions of latex.

I would consider the blended Talalay from either Latex International or Radium (which both use a blend of about 30% natural rubber and 70% synthetic rubber in their formulation) to be very durable materials and closely equivalent to each other in terms of durability. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here but all the latex you are likely to encounter (Dunlop or Talalay made with natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will be a durable material relative to other types of foam and the choice between them is always a personal preference and/or budget choice.

I would also consider any exchange or return policy as being part of the “value” of a topper purchase.

All latex will use a formula that includes foaming agents, curing agents, accelerators, gelling agents, antidegradants, and sometimes fillers … but synthetic rubber is just as much “rubber” as natural rubber and isn’t a “binder” (although “too much” filler can reduce the useful life of foamed latex). Any version of latex would be a good quality material and wouldn’t be a “weak link” in a mattress.

Phoenix

15

Hello Phoenix,

I have decided to eliminate american topper companies after emailing a few and seeing the shipping is ridicusly high.

I am about to choose thie one i linked about

ADVANTAGES:
Soft, natural, resilient mattress topper
Provides Proper support and alignment to ensure your body gets vital nutrients to repair and restore itself all night long
Key ingredients are derived from plant-based renewable raw materials
Natural blended Talalay 40 % Natural latex / 60 % binders and fillers
Latex foam provide 31% more pressure relief and contouring support than memory foam, it also responds instantly to your unique body contours, without waiting for body heat
2 inches thick for ultimate pressure relief, and proper orthopedic support
10 year warranty

once again not sure if 60 % binders means 60$ SBR SYNTHETIC its my only doubt , emailed them about it and i didnt understand the response…

they also sell AERUS memory foam topper wich i know u praise, so it seems like a good company after all

if u can just confirm this , i will buy it soon and try to soft 19ild…and post back if i find it good as a canadian buyer option…

thx

16

Hi KrazyPanda,

Yes … they are describing it incorrectly and the 60% refers to the percentage of synthetic rubber vs natural rubber that is in the formulation. It’s not a binder and it’s not the amount of any filler that is in the latex. The actual blend would be closer to about 70% synthetic rubber and 30% natural rubber (not 60/40).

If the material comes from Latex International it would also have a filler but the percentage of filler would be in the range of about 17%.

As an example … if the filler content was 17% and if the other substances used to manufacture the latex was about 3% (they don’t disclose the percentage but all latex has foaming agents, curing agents, accelerators, gelling agents, antidegradants etc) then the total “non rubber content” of the latex would be about 20%. That would mean that the remaining 80% was rubber and out of this 80% … 70% of this would be synthetic rubber and the remaining 30% would be natural rubber.

Phoenix

17

thank you , that is the kind of explanation i was expecting from the people i emailed!

It comes in 20 ild or 30 ild so it can’t be latex international i think cause on there site they dont mention they do 20 ild, yet it still has fillers ?

so based on your calculations the percentages of réal natural topper would be équivalent on the whole mattress to 24 pour-cent , 30 pour-cent of 80 = 24 , 56 pour-cent would be synthetic and 20 pour-cent would be other substances,

that is very interesting and i suppose it is in the norme of the industry , therefore is there anything i should consider except warranty , return policy etc, before making this purchase,

i made a good research and it’s been really pleasant to analyse things here , perhaps i can find a better solution but if all the toppers that are recommanded come in these forms than maybe i should just buy it without further investigation,

any final thoughts , should i reconsider ! thanks for giving me the good information i need , so hard like i said to get anything accurate nowadays from stores, even from customer services…

18

Hi KrazyPanda,

Synthetic rubber is just as “real” as natural rubber. They are both “equally” rubber.

They are both rubber copolymers so if a mattress uses all latex layers inside it and there is no other material in the mattress besides the latex then the mattress would be 100% latex (“latex” includes everything that is part of the foamed rubber formulation).

I would also keep in mind that latex ILD is always in a range (see post #6 here) and there is no exact number for a latex core although a manufacturer may specific a specific number (usually the “target” ILD) for the sake of simplicity. The ILD of a 6" latex core is measured in several places (depending on the manufacturer but it would be a minimum of 9 spots on the original core) and is then averaged and rated by the ILD rating that is closest to the average of that particular core. This means that a latex core that is rated as say 24 ILD may have an average ILD rating that is a little lower or higher than the “official” rating but ILD differences that are less than about 4 ILD wouldn’t be noticeable for most people.

The most important consideration is whether a topper you are considering will be a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) on the mattress you will be using it on. This will depend on the specifics of your mattress, on your body type and sleeping positions and each person’s individual perceptions and preferences, and on the type and blend, the firmness, and the thickness of the topper. The only way to know this for certain will be your own personal experience.

I would also consider the type and blend of the latex which would be a preference and budget choice more than a “better/worse” choice.

I would also consider the return or exchange policy which may become more important if the topper you choose isn’t as good a “match” for you as you hoped for when you actually sleep on it.

The warranty would be my least important consideration because defects in a latex material will tend to show up early in the life of the material (generally in the first year or sooner).

Assuming you are buying from a reliable supplier … I would make overall comparisons between latex toppers based on your preference for different types and blends of latex, on the exchange or return policy (which affects the “risk” of a topper purchase), apples to apples price comparisons (including shipping) for the same type and blend of latex, and of course based on any other criteria that are important to you (such as the number of options that are available or the type of guidance and service a supplier provides for example). If you are confident that a topper will be a good match for you then the return/exchange policy may be less important because return and exchange policies are built into the cost of a topper.

Phoenix

19

Dremfoam bedding does have a natural dunlop mattress with a heavier duty 2LB core. It’s very price competitive.

http://dreamfoambedding.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51

With that said, I think the Arizona Eco sleep is a superior product, and can be ordered with a 3" latex comfort layer. The core is a higher quality material, and it’s Talalay latex vs Dunlop, it’s only slightly more expensive. Although it does not ship for free, so that will add cost.

Also keep this in mind, Polycore designs are only a cost cutting measure, they do it for no other reason then price. If you can afford pure latex or high end innerspring designs, it’s my personal opinion that they are superior. With regard to Innerspring Vs Pure Latex, at the higher end, it’s a preference issue. Polyfoam core is never a preference issue, it’s always about saving money.

20

Hi Elderblaze,

While I would certainly agree with you that in general terms latex is a superior material compared to polyfoam by most definitions of “superior” and that it’s primarily a cost saving measure … this may not be as true when it comes to a specific individual. Preferences can be so wide ranging in different people that some people may prefer the “feel” of a latex/polyfoam hybrid over an all latex mattress and there may be others that are less sensitive or that don’t feel much of the layers below the top 3" or so (either because of their body type, sleeping positions, or their sensitivity and where they are in the range between “princess and the pea” or “I can sleep on anything”) that they wouldn’t feel much difference between them if the cover and the top few inches of latex was the same.

I also believe that KrazyPanda is in Canada and the only Dreamfoam mattresses that are available in Canada are the ones that are available through the Canadian fulfillment center (see here) although it’s still possible to have any US mattress shipped to Canada with a reshipper or freight forwarder. Arizona Premium does ship to Canada.

Phoenix