And so the journey for latex begins

[phoenix]

Hi Hogwild,

Our next stop was Mountainair Organic beds in Springdale. I was going to make the trip up to a savvy rest dealer, but after looking at Mountain Air’s website, and knowing their close proximity I decided to swing by. They may not have had the best reputation on here in the past, but I have to say that I came away impressed with their products and owners.

I’m not sure about “not having the best reputation here in the past” regarding them, as a forum search on Mountain Air turned up only a few results, where I’ve commented that their products seemed to use higher quality materials, but that they are in a higher budget range than some similar latex mattresses, so I would make some careful value comparisons, and that there is some information on their website that is more marketing than factual. But otherwise their materials seem to be good.

Apparently they used to be a savvy rest dealer, but moved away from that model in order to build their own where they could control the quality of their product better (and honestly probably make more money without licensing fees).

Yes, they did carry Savvy Rest in the past. Some retailers do choose to create their own small component-style lines, which can afford them the opportunity to create their own different feels and not be “locked-in” to the options offered by manufacturers. There also can be cost-savings measures in buying their own componentry, which may or may not be reflected in their pricing. There is no licensing fee to be a Savvy Rest dealer.

Anyway, they are big into helping the customer find the right fit for their body and spent a lot of time with us. She even turned out the lights in the shop to let us simulate sleeping for 20 min. She was very transparent about what they make and where everything is sourced from. It sounds like they get all their Dunlop through Arpico and Talalay through Radium.

It’s nice that they took the time to assist you and give you good attention.

I honestly think you should consider calling them and include on your recommended list for my area, but you would have to make that determination.

Membership here is a more “organic” process (no pun intended) based upon many factors, and not something that I aggressively seek, but I do appreciate your comments about them.

Alright back to the testing and next question…We want a 4 layer mattress and the configuration for my side was as follows (talalay soft on top, followed by Dunlop soft, Dunlop medium, and Dunlop firm). The respective Ild’s are ( 20-23-soft, 24-28-medium, and 31-36 firm). My concern is that as a stomach sleeper, that may be too soft for me.

You didn’t list the thicknesses of the layers, but looking at the mattress in your photo, and knowing that Mountain Air used to be a Savvy Rest dealer, it looks to be a configuration similar to the Unity Pillowtop, which used 3" layers.

I wouldn’t know if this is too soft for you, as all I can help with “how” to choose. It’s not possible for me to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

With that being said, generally using 6" of plush latex for the upper comfort layers in considered a bit more of a “plush” configuration and sleep ergonomic research will generally recommend to defer toward a bit of a firmer surface comfort in order to minimize accentuating the forward lordotic curvature of the low back/lumbar area.

I had also read that 2 soft layers on top may be too much and break down faster over time.

The uppermost comfort layers of any mattress will tend to go through more mechanical stress and “break down” faster than the deeper support layers – this is true. It is also true that a lower ILD foam will tend to “break down” faster than a higher ILD of the same foam. The good thing here is that you are considering something using very good quality materials, so I wouldn’t have as much concern about durability as I would the appropriateness of the comfort of the product for your particular sleeping style.

Spinal alignment looked about the same when I varied the 2nd layer to Dunlop medium, but for some reason the 2 soft layers on top felt cozier. My fear is that after a short break in period the two soft layers would be too much for my style of sleeping. Thoughts?

While I appreciate the photos, unless you were using some sort of a landmark marking system or white-light raster line triangulation, I wouldn’t be able to make any meaningful comments. Of course, these are measuring items used in labs by researchers and not used in sleep shops . While it is extremely difficult to tell, and it would only be a guess, from the photos you supplied (and your feedback about feeling cozier) it does look as if your lumbar region is sinking in more on the more plush product. Also on that mattress photo you seem to have quite a bit of lateral neck flexion and I would have a concern that the pillow you were using for testing to be too thick for this combination, but that could be the way you like to sleep when prone.

2nd question–I’ve also called sleepez and spoken to them about a suggested layering. The only problem is their ILD’s for the medium layer seem to be a little more “firm” than Mountain Air Organic. My fear is that what I’m testing may not even carry over should I decide to go with Sleepez instead. I would love to test every layer that sleepez had but know that’s not feasible. Any suggestions or thoughts?

You are correct that unless you are using the exact same foam from the exact same suppliers in the exact same configuration using the exact same coverings…it will feel different. SleepEZ uses a variety of sources for their latex and if you phoned and provided them the specifications and the types of latex in each layer, they could do their best to either duplicate what you liked, or based upon your local testing feedback make their own recommendations for what they think would work best for you and your sleeping style. As you may be aware, SleepEZ is a member here, which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations, and I would not hesitate to recommend them for your consideration. They do offer a 90 day comfort exchange policy should you find that you need to swap out a layer (Maintain Air has a similar policy for layer swap outs), which is an important consideration with any component mattress system should your initial configuration not turn out as well as you had hoped.

Lastly, I will say this for Mountain Air …their prices are negotiable. Like just about any place nowadays (including sleepez) they know they have to attract certain customers with “deals”. I haven’t gotten their final quote yet, but feel like they are willing to work with me should I find a better price on a comparable product.

I can’t speak for what Mountain Air offers for pricing policies, and I generally caution others about speaking for the selling policy of a business unless they are part of the ownership, but I can tell you that one of the more distasteful things that members here of the site mention is the large fluctuation that some retailers offer in their pricing. While offers/bundles/deals are common, you can still see the final price and make a logical comparison. Better businesses shouldn’t require a consumer to go out and find a “better price” in order to get a lower price from a store, and should instead offer a good everyday low price that reflects the value of their product and the value of their services. Of course this is my opinion and one of the issues I have with many mattress stores that continually offer “50% off deals” or don’t price their items at all in the showroom. I’m not saying this is the case at all with Mountain Air, and any business certainly can decide to adjust their pricing if they have room to gain your business if they feel the comparison has merit. You simply gave me the opportunity to get on my mattress pricing soapbox!

In general, I would treat retailers or manufacturers that negotiate their prices or have sales with “huge” 50%-70% discounts as a red flag because manufacturers or retailers that sell good quality/value mattresses don’t need to negotiate or have “fake sales” with misleading discounts to create a false sense of urgency, and they sell good quality/value mattresses every day of the year at prices that are already very fair and reasonable.

I’ll be happy to answer other questions you might have as you go through this process as best I can, and I’ll be interested in your progress.

Phoenix