Hi Malachai_31,
I’m not Cn1ght of course but I thought I would chime in with a comment :).
I would agree with the person you talked with and if you are used to a pillowtop then even F/M/M latex will most likely feel firmer to you than the pillowtop you are used to. I would also be aware that the type of latex, the thickness of the layers, and the type of cover that you use will all make a difference in how firm a mattress feels as well.
Phoenix
I am still in the process of transitioning. At the moment I am using (top - bottom)
Bed sheet-Pillow topper-Mattress protector-Cotton covering-Soft-Medium-Firm
The cotton covering is the overall “mattress” part which zips closed to hold the layers together and makes it look like a mattress. I am actually a little disappointed overall I guess and am hoping it is still in a transition phase, the mattress I liked at MattressMatters was more comfortable in my opinion than what I got from SleepEZ, the pillow topper I added helps but not quite there… Actually, it is slightly annoying to know that I bought a $1,200 mattress and had to add a pillow topper, whereas if I had bought from MattressMatters I would have loved it as it came. Having said that, with the price difference I am not about to switch however I not sure this ended much better than a normal spring mattress shrug. We will see what happens in the next week or 2. If I do end up switching it will be either to get an additional Medium or Soft.
Just to throw out other info not related to the question: I currently have (2) different bed sheets. “Sheex” which is a material similar to under armor and “linen” which is 100% polyester if I recall correctly. I prefer the linen one as it has a more “mattress” feel. I also have tried both with and without the mattress protector to see if that was a major cause of my dissatisfaction, the difference with or without does exist, but that is not a large factor in what I want versus what I am getting. I have not tried changing layers yet, so far the most I have done is try different setups with the protector, different sheets, and the pillow topper. The setup I currently prefer is the one I typed out above with bed sheet=linen.
[quote=“Phoenix” post=43816]
Thank you for your reply. It actually addresses another concern: that the SleepEZ top layer will be a 2-in Talalay instead of a 3-in Dunlop we had tried. The Talalay vs Dunlop firmness didn’t seem dramatic (but I may feel different after 8 hours on it!) and I can’t decide if being a little softer on top of two firms would be a good compromise or if being an inch thinner will make it feel firmer as I would compress it that much easier/completely?
Thank you for the update, cn1ght, and sorry to hear your not more comfortable. Though, I’m surprised to hear you say you are thinking of another soft layer if you feel the bed is too soft now…
[quote=“Phoenix” post=43816]
Thank you for your reply. It actually addresses another concern: that the SleepEZ top layer will be a 2-in Talalay instead of a 3-in Dunlop we had tried. The Talalay vs Dunlop firmness didn’t seem dramatic (but I may feel different after 8 hours on it!) and I can’t decide if being a little softer on top of two firms would be a good compromise or if being an inch thinner will make it feel firmer as I would compress it that much easier/completely?
Thank you for the update, cn1ght, and sorry to hear your not more comfortable. Though, I’m surprised to hear you say you are thinking of another soft layer if you feel the bed is too soft now…
Hi Malachai_31,
In general thinner top layers will feel firmer because they will compress to a greater percentage of their thickness faster and will “allow” more of the firmness of the layers below them to “come through”. There is more about the effect of thickness in post #14 here. If you have a thinner top layer that is also softer it can be somewhat “paradoxical” because the softer layer will feel softer with initial compression but you will also sink into it more deeply so you may feel more of the firmness of the layer below it as well so it can have a “combination feel” of being softer and firmer at the same time depending on whether you are more sensitive to the surface feel or the feel that comes from sinking in a little more deeply.
Phoenix
I might as well make another posting since I logged in to read these 2 replies anyway…
The mattress itself is not uncomfortable, it is simply not as comfortable as some of the latex mattresses I had tried at stores. Maybe I was unclear, or rather perhaps I am wrong with the following statement: but it is my understanding that the mattress is currently not soft enough for me. I was hoping to be a bit more IN the mattress and feel too ON right now… maybe? I suspect that is why the pillowtop additional layer helped. I am actually a little surprised that you replied to my thread as I was hoping for a soft mattress whereas you are seeking a more firm mattress.
I am unsure if it is due to the mattress or not, however I am waking up during the night MUCH more than I ever did on the air mattress. Obviously I cannot be 100% as I was trying to sleep, but I believe I woke about a dozen times last night either to turn or fall back asleep. On the air mattress I would do this maybe 3-4 times a night at worst.
I really should note that from what I have seen I am one of the only to complain about SleepEZ. Please realize that this is the exception, NOT the rule. I would very strongly suggest looking at other postings as well as this is the only thread I am aware of where someone is complaining that they do not enjoy the mattress they got from SleepEZ.
Hi cn1ght,
Latex has a much more “on the mattress” feel than other types of foam materials so it may be worth considering either a very soft latex topper, a soft polyfoam topper, or for a much more “in the mattress” feel yet … a memory foam topper.
The mattress you mentioned here at MattressMatters has 2" of very soft polyfoam on top of a 2" layer of very soft latex and the support core is very soft as well (softer than you would normally find in support layers) so it would be significantly softer and more risky in terms of alignment and durability than the mattress you ended up purchasing.
Phoenix
It’s surprising to see how differently people view softness.
I’m about the same weight as cn1ght, but I sank far enough into a F-M-S mattress that the edges felt a bit perilous.
A M-S-S was mush. I sank right through the top 6" into the bottom layer.
This was on 100% natural dunlop which I think is on the firmer side of the latex spectrum.
Hi Mcleanm,
It’s a never ending source of amazement for me as well how different people can be in their perceptions of softness and firmness and what feels “right” for them.
Yes … while 100% natural latex comes in a wide range of firmness levels … if the ILD is the same as Talalay then it would tend to feel firmer for most people because Dunlop latex is a denser material and will get firmer faster with deeper compression than Talalay (see post #7 here).
Phoenix
I was wondering if the 2" polyfoam was making such a big difference, however I did not recall that the MattressMatters also was much more soft in the core layers. This does, however, seem to agree with my guess that the mattress is not as soft as I was expecting/hoping for. I am aware that often the latex mattresses have more of an “on” feel, however there is something about the “in” feel with it also being a latex mattress which I enjoyed and am hoping to replicate.
In terms of durability, while I recall from the main page that the firmer materials generally have a longer lifespan, I was under the impression that due to this being latex that should not have anywhere near as much of an effect. In terms of the posture, I thought that my back was straight with the MattressMatters mattress whereas the one from SleepEZ I recall mentioning felt as if my hips were sinking in too much relative to my shoulders. I do not know why the firmer mattress would not feel better for this as it should, however we shall see. I am still trying to wait out for a time before I change anything other than the coverings. Although the fact that my sleep record is now
Sunday night with pillow topper: Woke 12 times during night to turn
Monday night without pillow topper: Took more than 1 hour to fall asleep and woke not feeling well rested
Does not bode well. I am still not willing to write this off as a bad mattress match for me, it may be stress or any other of a hundred things.
mcleanm: when you say F-M-S is this top-bottom or bottom-top? I am trying to figure things out as I thought it was more common to go from top-bottom leading to me being slightly confused haha.
Bottom-top
Hi cn1ght,
Latex is generally the most durable of all the foam materials but softness is a durability factor in all materials … including latex. There is more in post #4 here about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress. Some latex manufacturers won’t sell the softest versions of latex because potential durability issues with some people (and the potential risk of alignment issues). Durability is also relative to each person because if you are close to the edge of the softness range that would be suitable for you in terms of PPP then only a very small amount of softening may put you outside of your suitable range and for you the mattress would be too soft even though the materials may have only softened a small amount and would still be fine for someone else (see post #2 here).
Phoenix
Giving an update a little over a month of owning the latex mattress I bought from sleepez. Quick background, I spent a few weeks trying mattresses in stores, loved some of the latex mattresses, and bought an 8" latex mattress which is 2" soft talalay 2" medium dunlop, 3" firm dunlop. I actually have only spent 1 month sleeping on it as the second week I was out of town for business.
So having spent a month here is a summary of what I have done. I bought 2 different mattress sheets (sheex and linen), a mattress protector (I have tried lying on the bed without this to feel the difference but never slept without it on), I tried swapping the 3 different layers to better suit my wants/needs, I tried adding a pillow-topper. I am not happy with the mattress and think I need to go back to looking for a mattress to better suit my needs. Essentially what I have found is that I need to add the pillow topper on top of the soft, medium, firm to begin to feel comfy, but there is simply not enough support that way and my back is clearly not aligned. On the other hand I did try medium, soft, firm without the pillow topper and that was simply not comfortable at all and I had to add the pillow topper to fall asleep at all… I also tried soft firm medium, yet again no dice.
I have a guess as to what I did wrong: out of the 100 mattresses I tried with maybe 2 dozen being latex this is the only 100% (pure?) latex mattress I have actually been on so I was expecting something different. I think that I prefer being “in” the mattress whereas a latex mattress is “on”, and the reason I never realized this is that every other latex mattress (including 1 which claimed to be 100% latex and I later found out otherwise) always had a layer of polyfoam to give it an “in” feeling. So the only way I would actually like a latex mattress would be if I bought a polyfoam or some other material topper to go on top of the mattress at which point it makes no sense for me to have bought an expensive 100% latex mattress in the first place.
Just to give more (possibly useless) info: I have never really had trouble sleeping throughout the whole night. On the latex mattress I have slept through the whole night maybe 10 times after more than a month of sleeping on it and of those maybe 5 were after taking zzzQuil (sleeping aid). I have also had very few nights where I fall asleep in under an hour, this is also unlike me. It is very common for me to roll over (I am a side sleeper) during the night with the latex mattress as my arm or leg feels as if it has too much pressure on it. I am currently inflating my air mattress (blast! I had hoped to never use it again) to see how that feels for a few nights. I have not yet contacted sleepez and the current plan is to use the air mattress for a few nights, see how that goes, and try to find a replacement mattress to better suit my needs before the 90 days runs out and return the latex mattress after I have ordered a replacement from somewhere else. I am currently tempted to simply buy a normal spring mattress if I can find one which suits my needs as spending over $1,000 for a latex/polyfoam which I would enjoy was hard to swallow in the first place, and after this debacle is even more difficult for me personally.
I really REALLY wanted this mattress to work out. I kept telling everyone how great this was going to turn out, how I could modify the mattress myself by switching the layers and how great latex was… and in the end I am going to need to return it because the non-pure latex mattresses I had tried are what I wanted so when I got the high quality actual latex mattress it was just not a good fit for me and now I am going to get a few laughs (at me) for having gone through this whole ordeal. At least I can laugh with them.
Hi cn1ght,
Thanks for taking the time to share your update … I appreciate it.
Just for the sake of clarity and for others who may read this … if you bought the 8" special (see here) then it has two 3" layers (firm and medium Dunlop) with a 2" layer of soft Talalay in the top layer with a stretch knit unquilted cover.
I’m sorry to hear that your mattress isn’t a good match for you but there are some suggestions in post #2 here that may be helpful assuming that your mattress is too firm for you (which wouldn’t be all that unusual for a mattress with a 2" soft comfort layer over medium and firm Dunlop and an unquilted cover). It’s also possible that doing an exchange for a softer middle layer (soft Dunlop) would also be very helpful since this mattress would probably be firmer than most of the mattresses you seemed to like that you mentioned in your earlier posts and adding a softer middle layer may be helpful. In any case I would certainly talk with SleepEZ so that they can also provide some suggestions that may be helpful.
I’m not sure why this would make no sense because any combination of materials that provides you with good PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and that you sleep well on and that doesn’t have any weak links in the design would make a good choice regardless of the materials that were part of your sleeping system. Your mattress has a thinner stretch knit cover and there are many people that prefer some form of quilting material in the cover (or even as a topper) such as polyfoam or wool to provide a more relaxed sleeping surface (or a softer sleeping surface) compared to sleeping more directly on a more resilient material like latex. There is more about the pros and cons of quilting vs stretch knit covers in post #12 here and in post #6 here.
One of the benefits of having the foresight to buy a component latex mattress (that also has a good return policy) is that you have good options available to you after a purchase to fine tune the mattress and still have the benefits of having high quality and durable materials in your mattress but of course which of these you may wish to try would depend on your own preferences and priorities but at least you know they are available if you wish to take advantage of them. It’s certainly not unusual to need some fine tuning to find the combination that works best for you.
Phoenix
Correct, that is the mattress I bought. I sometimes forget that not everyone knows everything I know haha.
The firmness concern was why I tried to add a pillow topper along with a blanket on top of that. The problem is that if I make the mattress any less firm than soft, medium, firm my posture becomes poor and that is very uncomfortable after a few minutes, or at least that is what happened with the extra pillow topper. Perhaps a softer layer would have a different effect than adding the pillow topper, but I suspect that there would not be enough support at that point. I also remember you mentioning that most manufacturer’s try to avoid using a soft layer as a support due to them wearing out more quickly.
I was unclear in my statement. What I meant was that it makes no sense for me to keep the current 100% latex mattress and purchase an additional polyfoam topper for the current mattress. Buying a mattress which is constructed as I experienced in the stores where the polyfoam is already built into the mattress is not a bad idea, and I may look into this still. My point was that I spent over $1,200 on the latex mattress then I would have to spend an additional $300 (random number) for a good topper versus simply spending $1,200 on a mattress which is polyfoam on top of latex in the first place. There is also the detail that if I were to buy a topper I am unsure I would be able to test it prior to buying so I would have to rely on other people’s suggestions versus buying a mixed mattress where I have already felt what it will be like.
On that note I do want to thank you again for a previous comment you had made in this thread. There was a mattress at mattressmatters which was a floor model and thus had a great marked down price, although no return policy. You talked me out of purchasing the floor model which I am thankful for still.
Hi cnight,
if your mattress is too firm then adding the “right” topper would be important because one topper may not work at all and another may be perfect and one that “doesn’t work” can provide a pointer to one that will work better. There are almost as many different toppers as there are mattresses. Support/alignment and comfort/pressure relief are mostly opposite influences and it’s always important to find the balance between them that provides you with good PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). In most cases adding a topper that is “just enough” in terms of the type, thickness, and firmness to provide you with the pressure relief you need in all your sleeping positions would be the least risky in terms of alignment. Choosing a topper that is too thick or soft would be similar to choosing a mattress that has comfort layers that are too thick and soft and choosing a topper that is too thin or firm would be similar to choosing a mattress that was too firm for you. The goal is always to find the best balance between the “conflicting” needs of pressure relief and support/alignment. A “pillow topper” is just a generic description for a topper and there are many different types of toppers that could be equally called a “pillow topper” even though they are very different … some of which may work very well for you and some which wouldn’t. It doesn’t have a specific meaning.
Again I’m not sure why this would make no sense. If an additional topper … regardless of what type it was … was a suitable match for you in terms of PPP on your mattress then it would make sense to me. A polyfoam topper would be significantly less than $300 and to me the goal is always to find the “right” topper that works well for you. Some of the members here that purchased a latex mattress have purchased a polyfoam topper and it worked very well for them. I certainly agree that there is always some risk in purchasing a mattress or a topper that you aren’t certain will work well for you in combination with your mattress but if you buy a topper that has a good return policy then there would be much less risk if it doesn’t turn out to be suitable for you. It can also help you know more about the types of material combinations that tend to work best for you. Of course you always have the option of returning the mattress and starting all over again with a different mattress completely and whether this would be the “best” course of action would depend on your own “best judgement” and on how the “value” of another mattress you are considering compares to the one you have either with or without an additional topper.
In the end these are the types of choices that each person may make differently and there is no “right or wrong” … only the choices you are most comfortable with.
Phoenix
Just another update to keep bugging you friendly people.
I spend most of yesterday revisiting mattress stores. I actually took too long and was unable to buy some of the other things I was going to… I have for the most decided that I am simply not comfortable spending over $1,000 for a mattress so I went back to try the non-latex mattresses and find something which is going to be comfortable, match my PPP, and not break the bank.
Basista
5295 State Road
Parma, Ohio
First off, no return policy. No replacement offers, no money back, once you buy it that ends the transaction and they do not accept any returns. I had not asked previously as I simply assumed they would have a return policy, this is actually a huge negative in my opinion.
They have a latex mattress by Englander which I had mentioned when I was looking originally I think, not worth looking back at my old posts if I did or not unimportant. Price around $1,299 for Queen size, includes delivery and foundation. Problem: Having tested it again it is too firm for my liking. At any rate this was the only latex mattress which I would have considered due to the price and that I already enjoyed it beforehand. With this now out of the way I can focus on under $1,000 mattresses.
They also have a “white dove” type “Cheswick” priced $619. It is some type of foam mattress… The salesperson had zero information on the mattress, refused to print any document with price for estimation or paper tracking, and a google search provides no info on the mattress. The mattress felt good while I laid on it for 20 minutes, but without any sort of return policy I really do not think I will pursue this as an option, not worth spending any more time on.
Original Mattress Factory
4930 State road
Cleveland, Ohio
The salesperson seemed like he might have been new. Anyway, I tied the mattresses and none of them felt right to me at this price point.
MattressMatters
4960 State road
Cleveland, Ohio
Literally right next to the Original Mattress Factory. Basista, Original Mattress Factory, and MattressMatters are all within walking distance actually. I tried majority of the mattresses in this store and none of them felt right.
MattressMatters
17100 Royalton Rd
Strongsville, OH
I have had more luck with this store than any of the others until now so I decided to try it again. There were 2 which both seem that they would be a good match for me both in terms of PPP comfort along with price. Southerland Filmore Pillowtop and Southerland Southgate pillow top. Filmore=$899 listed price right now and Southgate=$849, although the saleslady told me that both of these currently have a $90 discount which is unlisted. These both felt great and I spent more than half an hour laying on each to see if I could fall asleep. No sleep sadly, but that is probably due to music, being in public, and the lights. The Filmore seemed as if it would be ever so slightly better and I have contacted Southerland asking for details about the materials used in this mattress. I know that it is
46% Poly foam
46% poly fiber
8% visco elastic foam
Which does not mean a heck of a lot. This mattress has a 10 year warranty, and I know it is not going to be as good quality as the mattress from SleepEZ, however this one felt wonderful to me personally. I intend to try it at least once more (probably next Saturday unless family stuff gets in the way) prior to purchase as one of the few constant things in my looking has been that a mattress which I once enjoyed ends up feeling not good at a later point in time.
Mattress Warehouse
14490 Pearl Rd
Strongsville, OH
The salesman was extremely friendly and knowledgeable. We had a great chat after I told him that none of the mattresses were a good match for me. He was actually sort of complaining about the fact that his job is basically to make sure someone does not spend too little or too much on a mattress and that trying to talk someone to a lower price actually often catches people off guard whereas obviously people do not believe him when he tries to explain why the cheaper mattress is a bad match.
So now I am waiting for Southerland to get back to me about their mattress. I probably should check the forum to see if this mattress has been mentioned before…
Hi cn1ght,
Thanks for the update.
You’ve probably already done this but I searched the forum for “Filmore” and “Southgate” and neither mattress has been mentioned previously.
Given the materials in the law tag I would be cautious and make sure that you can find out the specifics or what is inside them before purchasing either one in a pillowtop.
Phoenix
Yes, I checked shortly after making my post and I also came up blank. I did however see that Southerland was rated as a “sometimes” good option: they sometimes will tell you that you want to know.
I guess I have a different question for you. Let’s say that I cannot find out what materials are used in this mattress, but it feels amazing the next time I try it again. Since there is a 10 year warranty on it (I suspect 1-1/2" but I hope that when Southerland replies they clarify this) how much of a concern is it if I cannot discover which materials are used? I can fully understand if there were no warranty or even a 5 year warranty it would be a huge concern, but with a 10 year warranty if the materials are cheap and the bed fails I am covered by the warranty, right? Obviously I would really prefer this to not happen, but if it lasts 10 years before needing to be replaced beds will probably use different technology during production anyway and potentially I could get a better bed then anyway.
Hi cnight,
Mattress warranties only cover defects in the materials and they don’t cover the gradual (or more rapid in the case of lower quality comfort layers) loss of comfort and support that comes from foam softening that is the main reason that most people will need to replace their mattress. In other words warranties have little to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or when you may need to replace it. If there is an actual defect in the material it will usually show up early in the life of the mattress (usually in the first year or perhaps two) but knowing the quality and durability of the materials in your mattress are a much more reliable way to assess the useful life of a mattress than the length of a warranty. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here and there is more about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here.
Buying a mattress where you don’t know the quality of the comfort layers or where the comfort layers include more than about an inch or so of lower quality materials is always a very high risk purchase regardless of the length of the warranty and is something that I would always avoid (see the guidelines here). It is also one of the most common reasons for buyers remorse much too quickly after a purchase … especially for consumers that believed that a mattress warranty was an indication of how long a mattress would last for them and would “protect” them or that they would somehow be eligible for a “free” replacement during the warranty period if their mattress was no longer suitable to sleep on.
Phoenix