Another Newbie


Yes, I did read through much of the well written information on the main page. I got through everything from “overview” to “types of retailers” before my brain gave up. I am not saying I remember what I read, but I did read through it.

Background, my family always buys cheap mattresses. Cheap meaning if they last 5 years it is surprising. This makes me unhappy. I moved into an apartment with the idea of moving into a different one after a year and so in about 3 weeks I will be moving to the new apartment. Because of this, I have been using an air mattress (on my 2nd replacement right now), hammock, and the carpet for the past 11 months. I am 6’1", male, weigh between 210lb and 185lb (yes it actually varies that much within a single year), and enjoy slightly cooler temperatures. I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area (currently North Roylaton, but will move to Cleveland near Lakewood by the end of Sept). From having tested a handful of name-brand beds a year ago I recall that I very much enjoyed latex beds. Final comment here, yes I did glance through the Recommended people and nothing seemed to be within Ohio and I also stumbled across a post you made suggesting multiple companies for Columbus, Ohio.

List of Questions:

  1. Do you have any suggestions for people/places/locations for me to bug in/near the Cleveland, Ohio area?

  2. Within Mattress support cores - Overview - The Mattress Underground it was stated that “While they are commonly thought of as separate “categories” of mattress, memory foam and to a lesser degree natural fibers, are not suitable or found in the support core of a mattress and more information on these and other more “comfort layer specific” materials can be found in the comfort layers section of our website.” Now, I laid on (4) latex Restonic mattresses about an hour ago, each of which had some amount of latex [between 0.5" and 2"(soft)+2"(medium)] on top of 6" of memory foam. Am I misunderstanding the quote I provided, am I misunderstanding what the “core” is, or is the setup of 2" latex on top of 6" foam lacking an actual supportive core and therefore all (4) of these would be considered poor mattresses to purchase?

  3. As a very rough rule of thumb, am I correct in remember that side sleepers (like myself) tend to sleep better on 3" of comfort layering? I never sleep all night on my back nor on my side, however once in awhile I take a nap for ~2 hours on my stomach which requires the least comfort which is annoying since the side requires the most…

  4. If this is answered elsewhere I apologize for missing it: is a box spring required for a mattress? Is there anything “wrong” with simply buying the mattress and laying it on the carpet with no box spring nor bed stand?

  5. Not a question, but the human checking on this website was annoying. I was stuck on the Ford “wave the boot below the hatch” and I successfully did so more than 7 times, each time the ad said “congrats” but I got an error stating that I was not successful. I finally was able to create an account when the Captcha switched to a different ad.

Thank you for making such a wonderfully informative website! I found it in some roundabout method off of, someone there made a post highly suggesting this website for mattress information.

Hi cn1ght,

Hopefully you were reading the mattress shopping tutorial here and not all the pages on the main site :slight_smile:

The better options and possibilities I’m aware of in the Cleveland/Akron areas (subject to following all the steps in the tutorial post of course) are listed in post #2 here.

The support core of a mattress would be the layers that are deeper inside the mattress (say the bottom 6" or so) and are firmer layers that are meant to prevent the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too much. I doubt that the mattresses you tested had 6" of memory foam in the bottom layers (it’s not likely that any manufacturer would make a mattress like that) and it’s much more likely that you were given incorrect information and that the bottom 6" was polyfoam not memory foam.

It’s accurate that side sleepers generally need thicker/softer comfort layers to relieve pressure points but I would avoid thinking in terms of the specific number of inches of a single layer because every layer will affect every other layer to some degree so a mattress with a 2" top layer with a softer layer below it may be closely equivalent to a mattress with a 3" top layer of the same firmness with a firmer layer below it. I would use your actual testing to decide whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Your question is similar to an earlier one today and my reply in post #2 here would also be worth reading.

You can read more about box springs, foundations, platform beds, and other support surfaces that are suitable for different types of mattresses in the foundation post here and the two posts it links to. While the floor would provide a good support surface for any mattresses that needed firm non flexing support (which would include most mattresses with a foam support core) … you would have a very low sleeping surface which may be uncomfortable getting in and out of bed and there would also be little to no ventilation under the mattress which could increase the risk of dust mites, mold, and mildew (see post #10 here) and possibly stains on the mattress which would void your warranty.

The Captcha I use is one of those “necessary evils” unfortunately. It’s by far the most successful Captcha I’ve ever used to keep spammers out of the forum and not a single automated spambot has been able to register and spam the forum since I’ve used it and with other Captchas (which used images with letters in them for the most part) there were some days where a dozen or more automated spammers made it through. I realize it can be frustrating sometimes (although the “game” can be refreshed) and the ads are what support the free software and they can be somewhat annoying as well but overall it’s the best I’ve seen and it solved a significant issue with spam on the forum.


Both. I read through most of the main page and I did also read through the link you provided previously.

Thank you! I was actually at a local mattressmatters as when I was previously poking around I was utterly blown away by how informative the salesman was. He was not simply spouting stories, he was going into details which sounded familiar to some of what you have posted elsewhere. Sadly, I met him a few days before he was being transferred to a different branch so he is no longer there.

I believe you. I spent a few minutes looking at and between this and a quick google search I am finding no actual details about the mattresses (which type of foam etc). Is there a reliable way to find these details?

I see. To paraphrase the easiest point you make in the link, if I simply purchase whichever frame and box spring “comes with” the mattress I should have no fears of sagging or potentially voiding a warranty from inadequate support?

I am very glad you have found a method to prevent such annoyances. I was unaware of there being a way to refresh the game, the only thing I could do was to refresh the page itself. In terms of the advertisements providing some revenue, I have absolutely nothing against that, if anything I am impressed you are able to provide as much as you are without more ads on the sides and annoying popups.

I suppose I now have to do the hard part of actually testing a bunch of mattresses and shopping around. So much easier to build my own pc, just read a handful of reviews, purchase parts with similar standardized technical details which are easy to find, make it all fit together, and bam done. I was actually hoping to get this finished by the end of the weekend as there are probably better deals giong on this weekend than I will find in the next few weeks.

Hi cn1ght,

One of the reasons for just reading the tutorial “like you would a good book” vs “studying it like you would a textbook” is that when you are dealing with a salesperson that is knowledgeable what they tell you will “sound familiar” and when you are dealing with a salesperson that is trying to “sell you” whatever they can convince you to buy … there will be warning flags that go up because it doesn’t sound “right”. This is especially true if they try to get you to purchase with all kinds of “enticements” or “deals” before you leave the store.

There are many models of Healthrest Mattresses that use either memory foam, gel memory foam, or latex in the comfort layers (the upper layers of the mattress) but none of them have memory foam in the support core. They all use either polyfoam or latex for support. Restonic is a licensee group which means that there are many privately owned factories that are licensed to produce Restonic mattresses for a specific region but the mattresses that each factory makes may only be available in the area that they service because different licensees may have different designs under a common model lineup (such as Healthrest). A good retailer should be able to provide you with the information you need about what is inside any specific mattress they carry that you are interested in either from the spec sheets they already have or with a phone call to the factory.

If you purchase a matching foundation then you certainly wouldn’t void the warranty. In some cases there may be better choices than the foundation that comes with a mattress (for example some retailers won’t sell the matching foundations that are made by Pure Latex Bliss because they aren’t very good quality) but the matching set would normally be a “safe” choice.

If you are logged out and click on the “create an account” link and look at the Captcha you will see a counterclockwise circle on the bottom right of the Captcha screen. If you click it then it will give you a new “game” to play.

Just to be clear as well … the ad revenue goes to Are You A Human which they use to support their software development because the software itself is free for websites to use. Having said that your post reminded me that they did start some kind of revenue sharing program … going to check to see if I’ve earned anything …

… back from checking and Since August of 2013 last year I’ve earned $51 of which $19 is available for payment. Apparently you need to reach $200 before they pay anything so it shouldn’t take more than a few more years at this rate :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t worry too much about labor day sales or any of the other “fake sales” that are so common in the industry. Good retailers and manufacturers will have good value available every day of the year and if they do have a legitimate sale it will be for a much smaller and more reasonable discount off of regular and legitimate pricing that is already much better than “fake sale” prices (see post #5 here). When you get a sense of “urgency” I would treat it as a red flag (see guideline #5 here).

Computers and mattresses share one thing in common which is that the specifics of what’s inside them is a big part of their quality and value.

Good luck in your search and I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding and of course any comments or questions you may have along the way.


I was not trying to find a source of information about the insides of a mattress for that particular mattress, although I do appreciate your feedback on it. I am still trying to treat mattresses the way I treated buying a car or computer parts: I want to be able to actually look at the specifications of what it is so that I can compare it on paper. From your answer I am going to infer that there is not an easy way to do this and I need to either try to get a salesman to hand me a technical pamphlet of some sort or call up the manufacturer and ask about the details one question at a time… I hate dealing with phones.

Aww. I think I recall that for retailers or manufacturers you charge a $200 fee, and I see you have a paypal donations thing. I feel badly that you are doing this practically for free now.

Through one of the links you provided I was led to (2) videos by “beducation”. I think I actually saw a video or two from him almost a year ago when I was previously looking for a mattress… Anyway, I can understand and agree with what he says. However, it does annoy me when people say “Well, it is the consumer’s job to be educated on these matters” as he stated in the first of the 2 linked videos. OH c’mon, what a sorry excuse that is. There are not enough hours in the day to be educated about how to buy a mattress, how to buy a car, how to invest in the stock market, how to get good cloths, how to do better at work, how to socialize with people, how to know which foods are most healthy, keep up with news, and the hundreds or thousands of other things which it is our “job” to do. He also readily admitted that the manufacturers go out of their way to make it difficult!

Anyway, 2 additional questions for you if you would continue to be so kind :slight_smile:

  1. If I find a mattress which I like at a brick and mortar store, how difficult is it to be able to find a comparable mattress online? Why online? I find it extremely likely that I can find a better price (maybe even one of the recommended companies you list) or I believe one of the threads on this forum the guy found a $1,800 mattress on amazon for $600. I ask because it is apparently difficult to find actual specs on the mattress in the first place so being able to match specs of a mattress (which I may have only gotten by calling the manufacturer directly) when the specs of other mattress are not readily available sounds time consuming the say the least.

  2. How bad of an idea might it be to simply purchase a cheap, plain, and firm spring mattress and buy a latex or memory foam topper for it to act as the comfort layer?

Hi cn1ght,

While many online manufacturers or retailers have more details about their mattress specs on their site … it’s quite rare that a mainstream manufacturer or retailer will have this information on their site and in many cases they won’t even be able to provide it if you ask. Better retailers and manufacturers that are more knowledgeable and transparent will provide it to their customers that are informed enough to know to ask for foam quality specs (which is very uncommon) but in many cases the members here that have spent more than an hour or two on this site will have more meaningful knowledge about mattress materials than most of the salespeople who sell mattresses and if you start asking these types of questions in most mainstream stores you will see a lot of “eyes rolling” or some mumbling followed either by “reasons” why you really don’t need to know the quality of the materials in a mattress or excuses that they have something else they need to do.

I hope you realize that my comments about the Captcha were meant as humor and I certainly wouldn’t feel too badly for me! While it took a couple of years of struggling and the support of family members who believed that it would succeed to get there … the business plan I put together when I first started the site is now supporting my family … although it’s been 16 hours a day for over 3 1/2 years without a day off yet so the next step is implementing the last part of my original 5 year plan which will help me have more “normal” hours. :slight_smile:

Just for clarity as well … the referral fees from the business members are the main source of income for the site … not the membership fees or the donations.

He and I share the same thoughts about this. In todays mainstream mattress industry, if a consumer isn’t well informed (or at least knows enough to find a knowledgeable and experienced retailer that already knows what they would otherwise have to learn and has their legitimate best interests at heart) then the odds are very high that they will make a relatively poor quality/value choice. Who you choose to deal with can be one of the most important parts of a successful mattress purchase.

There are some online memory foam manufacturers that sell mattresses that are close equivalents to some of the major brand memory foam mattresses (mostly Tempurpedic) and there are some online latex mattresses that are reasonably close equivalents to some local latex mattresses as well. In most cases though … unless an online mattress has the same materials and components and the same design (layer firmness, thickness, equivalent cover etc) as a local mattress … then your local testing can be a useful reference point that along with the other information they would need from you (body type, sleeping positions, preferences etc) can be part of a more detailed conversation with an online manufacturer or retailer to help you make a suitable choice but outside of the few exceptions it’s unlikely that you would find something online that was the same as a local mattress. There is more about the different ways that one mattress can match another one in post #9 here.

You can see my comments about this in post #2 here. Unless you can test the specific combination in person … it certainly wouldn’t be my first choice.


Hello again, I hope you are not yet tired of my bugging you.

So I spent over 7 hours today either driving to mattress stores suggested by you in the Cleveland area or testing mattresses at said stores. I would say maybe 50%, maybe less, were latex the rest were a mixture of coil and/or memory foam. I know I like a mattress from Restonic, the problem is that which one depends on which store I am testing it at… I did go to more than 7 stores in total today, however I am going to focus on the ones which I am most interested in. I tested the Restonic at (3) Mattressmatters locations, North Royalton, Mentor, and (I think) Cleveland. At all of the locations there were 4 Restonics:

$1429 1/2" medium latex +poly foam
$1599 2" medium latex + poly foam
$2299 2" soft latex + 6" latex (“Bliss Plush”)
$2699 2" med + 2" soft latex + 6" latex

In order of when I visited, at the North Royalton location I loved the $1599, at the Mentor one I liked none of them, at the Cleveland one I liked the $2299 one, which is the only one I wrote down the name of sadly. The only thing I can think of is that maybe at the North Royalton location the $1599 was more broken in as the Cleveland location said they recently changed that mattress. Then at the Cleveland location they are going to sell the floor model for $1379 (instead of the normal $2299) so it must be well broken in. Is it possible that the there was that much of a difference between the latex after being used for some time versus new that I liked or disliked solely based on this? Or maybe I am just terrible at comparing things? The other option is that I have been using an air mattress for the past 11 months, MAYBE I am so used to a mattress which lacks any comforting layer so that at the Cleveland location the more firm $1599 felt better as I am more used to it whereas after testing for 7 hours my body became more used to an actual mattress so I enjoyed the less firm $2299? I can tell you that with the $1599 model at the Cleveland location it was either too firm or not enough of a cradle for me. I cannot tell you which of the two, but I can tell you it was one of those at least.

Next up, I am tempted to buy the “Bliss Plush” floor model for $1379 as I did enjoy it at the Cleveland location. My fears are that I was told due to it being a floormodel there is no trial period, I am stuck with it after purchase. The salesperson was also not entirely sure if I would have a warranty or not. Another big concern is that I was allowed to lay on it undisturbed for 30 minutes. While it was very comfortable and there were no pressure points I was utterly unable to sleep. Maybe I just was not sleepy, maybe the lights, maybe the knowledge that I was in a public area I do not know, but it concerns me that I was unable to sleep combined with the knowledge that if I really cannot sleep on it I cannot exchange it. I can buy the unused model at $2119 (some sort of discounts or whatever), but knowing that I am paying almost $800 more for an identical mattress “just” for the peace of mind of knowing I can return it if I need to seems a bit steep.

Do you have any other recommendations about Restonic or my search in general? Maybe other company models which I should try to zoom in on and test, maybe comparable models from other companies? I know you know a lot more than I know (and more than I want to know I am sure), I am just trying to find out what you are thinking at this point. Maybe, for another example, there is some other method of finding Restonic mattress prices and I am actually still overpaying for these, or maybe Restonic in general should have gone with a name like Sleeptonic so that it begins with an “S” and it should be avoided…

I apologize, there is no MattressMatters in North Royalton. When I typed “North Royalton” I meant “Strongsville”. The 2 cities are right next to each other and I continually mix the 2 up.

Hi cn1ght,

There is more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you compare mattresses. As you can see … which one is the best “match” for you in terms of PPP is the most important part of the value of a mattress and for this part you are the only one that can decide this because nobody else can feel what you feel on a mattress (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). If you aren’t confident with your choice then the return or exchange policies (and the other options you can exchange for) may become a more important factor in your choice.

Outside of testing each mattress for PPP though … I would confirm the specifics of all the layers in each mattress you are considering (see this article). This will help you make sure there are no weak links in any of the mattresses and knowing the specifics of all the materials (including the type and blend of any latex) will also help you make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. You are also welcome to list the layers on the forum (either top to bottom or bottom to top) and I’d be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials as well.

They may also be different mattresses but it’s also not unusual that if you spend a great deal of time testing mattresses everything can begin to blur together. Most people have had the experience of testing mattresses say in the morning and then testing mattresses somewhere else and then going back to test the first mattresses again and they feel different from what you remember because your frame of reference has changed.

There would normally be “some” difference between a brand new mattress and a mattress that has broken in where the cover has stretched and lost any initial stiffness and the foam layers have lost any of their initial “false firmness” but it’s likely that all of the mattresses you tested were broken in from testing as well. You could always ask them how long it’s been on the floor.

A floor model is generally a “final purchase” and there would generally be no warranty as well so I would make sure you were comfortable with this because no matter what the cost or quality of a mattress… if you can’t sleep well on it and you have no options available to you to exchange or fine tune it then it would have little value to you. I would keep in mind that if a mattress is a little too firm then you can always add some additional softness with a topper but there are no effective ways to make a mattress that is too soft any firmer without removing or replacing layers.

My “best” suggestions outside of the comments here would be to follow all the steps in the tutorial post and use the testing guidelines to test mattresses as carefully as you can. I would also narrow down your choices at each store to one so you have a finalist at each one.

One you have a finalist at each store that you are confident is a suitable choice in terms of PPP and has no weak links in the materials … then you will be down to final choices (see post #2 here) between good and good and which of them would be best for you would depend on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

You also have some other good options besides Restonic in the area and I would also consider some of your other options besides just Restonic so you have a chance to test some different mattresses. The only way to know if one mattress is comparable for you in terms of PPP (it may not feel comparable to someone else because this is somewhat subjective) would be based on your own testing and knowing the materials inside them would help you compare them in terms of the materials and durability.

I would also make some preliminary phone calls to the stores you plan to visit to tell them about the types of mattresses you are interested in testing, to find out what types of mattresses they carry on their floor, and to get some sense of their knowledge and customer service as well.


To continue the saga I will give a list of which locations I have visited (and either kept a business card or wrote down something in my notebook something). Below is in no way my recommendation for which stores are “best” only which ones stood out with a product/service.

Taylor’s Furniture
601 Pearl Road
Brunswick, Ohio

There are 2 buildings, one for mattresses and beds the other for chairs etc. I was allowed to test the beds without any sales people near me. The only bed which I took note of was a Queen size latex bed for $1499, it was not exactly what I want; I would tyr to describe it as being too “on” and not enough “in”.

Metrohome/Sleep source (I believe they are the same company?)
5100 Pearl Road
Cleveland, Ohio

The sales person was extremely friendly, not at all pushy, and I was told that due to the neighborhood there were not enough sales of latex mattresses. However, they had a 20X larger building over in Mentor about 30 minutes away which had 15 latex mattresses… See below.

7835 Mentor Ave
Mentor, Ohio

Salesperson was pushy, continually made false claims such as “This mattress has a bamboo topping” me “No it does not.” “Yes it does look at the tag… it has a good quality (insert not bamboo material) topping.” The mattress I was trying to be sold was by “Natures spa” price tag $3599, marked down to $2499, floor model $1299. I was told at a nearby store that the “regular” price is actually $1699 for that mattress. Anyway, the mattress did not feel quite right, maybe it was too soft or too much cushioning which was adding too much pressure to my lumbar, I do not know, but the mattress was not exactly what I want.

Original Mattress Factory
4930 Lorain Road
Cleveland, Ohio

The sales person was extremely friendly and there are little cutout examples of most of the mattresses so you can see what is inside of the mattress you are testing. However, I walked in a little before 5 and within 5 minutes half the salesmen were leaving… I did not notice that they closed at 5 so I very quickly jumped onto the last beds, I apologized multiple times for not knowing and left quickly. There were 2 mattresses which were good for me: Serenity Latex $1,905.12 and Orthopedic Super Pillow Top $1,084.32. The latex is not worth that price in my probably poorly informed opinion, and I am not overly interested in a pillow top.

17100 Royalton Rd
Strongsville, OH 44136

The salesman probably would have been helpful if I asked. I walked in, told him I wanted to just test them out so he sat behind the desk for most of it letting me roam freely. He did explain how the store was setup (which were springs versus foam versus hybrid) and he did point out which type of springs were used (pocket) in the ones directly behind him. I assume he knew much more but he was trying to not be pushy so he came off as a bit too careless. As mentioned in a previous post there were (4) latex mattress all made by Restonic which I tested. I did test other mattresses, but none of the other ones suited me as well.

7525 Mentor Ave
Mentor, OH 44060

Salesperson was EXTREMELY knowledgeable I would state without any hesitation. If I am not mistaken he and I spent well over an hour talking about and trying beds. There was some form of testing setup where the machine plays some advertisement and measures how soft/hard of a mattress best suits your body. It was interesting, and I was correct as to how soft/hard I should sleep on. I would VERY strongly without any hesitation recommend this particular store to anyone in the area even though there were no mattresses which suited me.

5712 Brookpark Rd Cleveland, OH 44129

I had met the salesperson 1 year ago. She is very friendly, not pushy, although I am not certain how much she knows about mattresses. She was able to answer any questions I had.

Mattress Warehouse
7741 Mentor Ave
Mentor, OH 44060

The salesperson was straightforward, seemed to know a lot, although I believe he did lie at least once. He said that I would not find any 100% latex mattresses for under $5k, which I am almost positive that I have seem multiple which were all under $3k. While not pushy, he did make a good suggestion for a latex-like mattress: Dormeo Octaspring. He had a little sample of it and supposedly it uses memory foam in the form of sponges/springs which allows it to feel more like latex while still being memory foam? While it would not be a bad purchase, I preferred the feel of other latex mattresses.

5295 State Road
Parma, Ohio

The salesperson was very hands-off, I was led to the areas with mattresses to try and left alone to try them. One of the 2 mattresses I was interested in the salesperson had “never tried” so could not tell me much about it. More about this later.

Mattress Warehouse
I do not have any written down address for this location.

I was told that there were no latex mattresses in that particular store. However, there were 2 other locations which each did have the same Dormeo mattresses which I had already tested at another location. I was given the address of one of the other mattress warehouse locations. When I got to the address I was at a mall and there were zero mattress warehouses which I or my GPS could find.

No location written down, but this is probably true of all of them.

I walked in, walked through, saw nothing of interest and walked out.

To summarize
-Taylor’s Furniture: was very hands off, I have no idea if anyone knew anything as I did not bother to ask any questions.
-MattressMatters: all 3 were great, the worst which could only be said of only 1 of them was that since there was only 1 salesperson he was not very hands on, the other 2 were both great.
-Metrohome/Sleep Source: the first had a very friendly salesperson who either was misinformed or lied about the second location, the second location was very pushy about the product and made several patently untrue statements.
-Original Mattress Factory: very friendly, great visuals to see what is inside of the mattresses, willing to stay late when you stumble in near the closing time…
-Mattress Warehouse: First location seemed knowledgeable, made worthwhile suggestion for non-latex. Second had no floormodel to test and gave me either the wrong address or needed to mention WHERE at that location the store was.
-Levins: even at 50% off the prices were still quite high. Not worth the drive to get me there BUT I did get a free hotdog out of t.

Now that I have put anyone reading this to sleep in the previous comment, I do have actual questions/concerns.

At Basista there was a mattress which I am confused about. Manufacturer: Englander, Natures Finest, “Marcilly Smooth Top”. Top 3" are latex, the rest are various foams which I did not write down. Normal price $1199 current “sale” price $599. Out of every store I have looked at none of them had any latex mattresses of any sort near the $599 range in the Queen size, not even close. I did see the post where #6 states “None of them are likely to be nearly as good quality/value as a smaller local manufacturer” along with the rest of the text in there. I am almost positive that the colorful label stated that the top 3" were latex (a concern made in the link that there may be foam over the latex), however I have nothing in writing in front of me and a quick google search brings me nothing on that particular model. I am mentioning this because I did enjoy that model, it felt good, but that price tag seems too good to be true for any latex mattress, even more so one with latex on top of (most likely poly) foam instead of on top of springs. When I saw the original pricetag of $1199 I thought “Hey, I think that is a good price for what I am feeling” then when I saw the sale price (and confirmed the price with the salesperson) it just sounded wrong compared to any other foam mattress I have seen until now.

Hi cn1ght,

Thanks for all the “Cleveland” feedback … I appreciate it and I hope it will be helpful for others in the area :slight_smile:

I can make a few comments about some of your experiences or the information you were given …

Unfortunately these types of “salespeople” are far too common in the mainstream industry where they use misleading information or sales techniques (such as fake “MSP” prices) to sell any mattress they can convince you to buy.

He is certainly not correct about this and there are “all latex” mattresses available for less than half this price.

I certainly wouldn’t call memory foam “latex like” and if anything they are more “opposites” than similar. There is more about how they compare (or don’t) in post #2 here. A forum search on octaspring (you can just click the link) will also bring up more information and feedback about them and the materials and design they use.

As to your second post …

I would need to know the specifics of the mattress to make any meaningful comments about it and there are certainly some lower cost versions of latex (such as synthetic Dunlop latex) or thinner layers of latex that would be in lower budget mattresses. There also are some latex hybrid mattresses that are in lower budget ranges (such as here) but it’s also very possible that they were selling a floor model or a comfort return or selling out the last of a model that isn’t made any more. If you look at the law tag you would be able to confirm that it had latex in the mattress (it would have the materials listed by their weight percentage) or the date it was manufactured but I would still want to know the specifics of the materials and the layers.

Thanks again for all your feedback!


While I would hate to disagree with you as it would be my error to do so, I would suggest that the Dormeo which I tested did have a more latex-feel than a memory foam-feel. It is possible that I misunderstood something about the particular Dormeo as a different store salesman told me that some of the Dormeo do use a layer of latex, perhaps it was latex I was feeling and not memory foam. HOLY COW, Dormeo actually lists some specs on their website! That is model which the salesman wrote down and it did not quite feel like latex, but given the choice I would readily state it felt more like latex than memory foam.

As I stated I know the tag was Manufacturer: Englander, Natures Finest, “Marcilly Smooth Top” however I can find absolutely nothing from google about this mattress to link you to. Perhaps they only use this name in this one store? Despite you mentioning many times not to rush things due to a “sale” I am tempted to buy the questionable mattress tomorrow for $599. I tested over 50 mattresses (I would not be surprised if it were almost 100 actually as I tested more than a dozen in most of the stores I mentioned), few of the non-latex mattresses I tried seemed right for me and of the latex mattresses the price difference of $2,100 versus $599 for comparable feel is hard to pass up. From the 1 or 2 law tags I looked at it appears that the tag only states “latex” or poly foam of some sort, I do not recall it listing which latex or which poly foam is used. I remember that talalay is considered to be more consistent and better for softer latex than dunlap, but I recall nothing about how to compare 2 latex foams to know which is better quality other than “does it feel good or not?” Can you provide some sort of information (or link) to which latex and poly foams are worth purchasing for a long term mattress versus which are going to fail in a short duration?

I went to most of the stores which you recommended in a previous link (the few I skipped were due to the area being unlikely to carry the type of mattress I want) and I recall you mentioning that buying something online without being able to clearly state “mattress A is almost exactly mattress B” is not a good idea, and since this is all but impossible most of the time… I am finding it difficult to think of a better choice. What am I missing?

Hi cn1ght,

Yes … some of the newer Dormeo mattresses in the Serenite line do have a layer of latex on top (see post #38 here and some of the previous posts before it in the same topic) so for these you’re certainly correct that they would have a more “latex like” feel than the Octaspring models where the top layer is memory foam.

There should be a law tag on the mattress which lists the material inside it (by weight not by thickness or the order of the layers). If this is missing then the odds are much higher that it’s a used mattress. A good retailer should also be able to provide you with the details about what is inside any mattress they sell and if nothing else they could call the factory and find out what is inside it. This shouldn’t be up to a consumer to find this out and in many cases if the information doesn’t come from the factory it may be incorrect anyway. I would be very cautious about buying any mattress where you don’t know what is inside it or where it’s possible that you are buying a used mattress that won’t have a warranty.

The basic guidelines I would suggest using in terms of foam type and quality so you can identify whether a mattress has any obvious weak link in the materials are in post #4 here. There is also more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here (any latex is a durable material relative to other types of foam) and there is more detailed information about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress relative to different types of people in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

The most reliable way to know what they currently have on their floor would be to call them before you visit them and I would always suggest calling any store you plan to visit first anyway since it will save you a great deal of time if you can do some preliminary research about the store itself.

I’m not sure where you read this but it sure wouldn’t have come from me and there are many forum members who are very happy with the online purchase they made. The two most effective ways to choose a mattress would either be with careful testing on a mattress in person or if you can’t test a mattress in person then based on a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer who can help “talk you through” the options they have that would have the best chance of success (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). In the case of an online purchase that you haven’t tested in person or where there aren’t any closely equivalent mattresses available locally then the options you have after a purchase to rearrange or exchange layers if you need to do any fine tuning or to exchange or return the mattress itself if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped would also become a more important part of most people’s personal value equation as well.


PS: I did find a couple of references to the Englander Marcilly including here which indicates that it’s a latex/polyfoam hybrid. It doesn’t say the thickness of the latex or the density of the polyfoam underneath it but the latex is most likely 100% natural Dunlop.

I hate spending so much time on a single purchase like this… I hate it almost as much as I hate continually bugging you.

So the Marcilly which I loved yesterday was “meh” today. If anything I would have to say it was too firm and my shoulder had too much pressure on it (side sleeper). I also believe there was mis-communication about the price, the salesperson originally agreed that the price of the mattress was $599 (without actually checking) and said something about a half off sale. However, I suspect that the bed frame is actually $599, NOT the mattress, and the salesperson really should have checked when I made a point about this twice previously. There was again no verification today as the salesperson was “swamped” with customers today and I did not want to push the point on a mattress which I would be buying simply because of the price without it being the most comfortable or suitable for me.

On a not-so-negative note: the Restonic “Bliss Plush” which I did also enjoy yesterday still felt great today. To say the least it would be prudent of me to try the mattress on a few more days to make sure this is not another mirage… Having said that, I am highly hesitant to spend $2,200 on a mattress, I was hoping to keep it closer to $1,500. I have some form of info about the mattress, however based on other postings it is probably not the info needed to be able to match it online.

Brand: Restonic
Model: Bliss Plush
Upholstery: Ticking, FlameFighter, Bamboo
Comfort layers
1" Quilt Flex
15/16 SS RestoFoam
2" SS Latex
Support System
6" Latex Core
1-7/8 Medium RestoFoam

9" HW Foundation

Info off of the law tag:
87% LT
11% Poly
2% FR Rayon

FMP 056-0050 FR5.4 1" QF + .9375 12019
HYL021-0050 6 LAT T-2"C1LAT B-1.87512032
FCO132-0050 5/0 6x59.4x79.3 C2 LATEX CORE
FT0158-0050 5/0 2X60X80 LATEX C1
FT0146-0050 5/0 1.875x60x80 FE12032

So, I know that 5/0 means queen size and the #x#x# are dimensions for the layers, but I have no idea what C1 or C2 mean nor if that FE12032 means something… The salesperson at MattressMatters (where I tested the Bliss Plush) did not know what the densities were and had no paperwork which stated one way or another. Also, one of the papers she found mentioned that it is 100% synthetic latex, which if I recall is not as good as a mix which is also not as good as 100% natural. I am also disappointed that it appears that there is a layer of poly foam above the latex, this took the salesperson by surprise actually.

Let us assume that during this coming week I test the Restonic “Bliss Plush” a few more times and each time it still feels like what I want not only in terms of support and comfort but also spinginess, heat, and everything else you have linked me to and which I have at least skimmed through. What would I need to do in order to have a worthwhile conversation with an online company such as sleepez (I just mentioned that as it was recommended elsewhere on this site and I glanced through it)? Is it likely that I would have to call up Restonic and ask them for the type and thickness of the layers (to supplement what I just typed out), the densities of the poly foams, and type of fabric and quilt? Or is most of that already in the description I have above and in the part numbers I typed? I have read through "Major" Brands Sealy Optimum? - #46 by phoenix
but I am unsure how much of that can be answered by stating that I want them to closely match the Restonic Bliss Plush.

Thank you again for all of your help so far. I can be very difficult at shopping sometimes and I am sorry for being as much of a time consumer as I have been so far.

Hi cn1ght,

While I can’t help you with comfort or firmness choices because your own testing will be more reliable than any suggestions I could make … I can certainly make some comments about the information you need to make sure there are no weak links in a mattress and so you can make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses.

[quote] I have some form of info about the mattress, however based on other postings it is probably not the info needed to be able to match it online.

Comfort layers
1" Quilt Flex: This would typically be lower density quilting polyfoam. If this was the only “unknown” or lower quality layer it would still be fine (it’s less than “about an inch or so”) but if there are other unknown layers then it could be part of a “weak link” in the mattress.

15/16 SS RestoFoam: According to the specs you listed this is 1.2 lb density which in combination with the quilting layer would be a total of 2" of lower quality/density materials which would be more than I would be comfortable with and is on the edge of being a weak link in the mattress (2" or more is what I would consider to be a possible weak link).

2" SS Latex: This is a good quality material (any latex is a durable material) but I would want to know the type and blend of the latex.

Support System
6" Latex Core: This would also be a good quality material but once again I would want to know the type and blend of the latex.

1-7/8 Medium RestoFoam: this is the deepest layer of the mattress and is used as a stabilizing layer so the density isn’t as important because the upper layers would be the weakest link of the mattress. Restonic has typically used 1.5 lb firm polyfoam layer for their stabilizing layer in the past but the specs you provided indicate that this is a 1.2 lb layer which is lower quality/density than I would be comfortable with and is just a money saving measure. Even though it “probably” would be OK … I’m just not comfortable with such low quality/density materials in a mattress in this budget range.

My comments are beside each layer.

C1 and C2 are firmness ratings which most likely indicate that the latex is from Mountaintop foam (see post #70 here) although it’s also possible that it’s a firmness rating used by another manufacturer. The ILD’s for different types and blends of latex aren’t directly comparable so these won’t “match” the ILD of other types of latex. Having said that … ILD or other comfort specs aren’t important because what you “feel” is more important than knowing comfort specs.

It’s very unlikely that you would find an online mattress that was the same as a local choice anyway but your local options and testing can still be used as more generic “datapoint” in your conversations with online retailers and manufacturers if you are considering an online purchase. There will be many combinations or materials and layers and different mattress designs that would normally be suitable for someone in terms of PPP although they may all “feel” different.

Synthetic latex (if that’s what it is because Mountaintop foam makes anything from synthetic to 100% natural) is a high quality material and is more durable than other types of foam material. It can be a good choice in a comfort layer but it’s not as “supportive” as 100% natural Dunlop in support layers (although here again your own testing is the most reliable way to know whether a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP).

Overall I would tend to be somewhat cautious with this mattress because it’s a little “over the edge” of the quality of materials that I would be comfortable with in this budget range.

There really isn’t anything much to do except pick up the phone and talk with them and provide them with the information they will need to help “talk you through” your options. They have a set of “standard” layerings that would work well for the large majority of people based on “averages” and then you can use your own sleeping experience to decide whether you need to do any re-arranging or exchange any layers.

No … there was some “translation” involved but all the information you need was “buried” in the specs you provided.

This won’t be possible because the materials and designs are too different and they won’t likely be familiar with the materials in the Restonic. They will suggest the layering that their knowledge and experience and the information you provide indicates will likely be the best possible match for you in terms of PPP … but they won’t be able to match another mattress that uses completely different materials and has a different design.


Another Northeast Ohio shopper here – I came across this thread when I was doing another search. cn1ght, are you still searching, or did you finally find something you liked?

While the Englander Nature’s Finest Marilly Smooth Top discussed earlier apparently isn’t under consideration anymore, I happened to have some notes about it from when I was looking at the same mattress at Taylor Furniture in Brunswick last weekend, so I thought I’d share the specs that I had. This was the information posted in the store that I copied down (but it included no information on the density or anything):

Englander Natures Finest Marcilly Smooth Top:
3 in natural latex
3 in super poly foam
3 inch racetrack foam
5 in firm poly foam
Soy based poly foam
The price at Taylor’s was $1499 (so the under $599 quote you got was either in error on the part of the salesperson or an amazing deal!)

I rather liked the feel of the Englander mattress, but with little specifics as to the quality of materials, I haven’t been considering it. Taylor also had some hybrid (latex/innerspring) Englander mattresses. They’re apparently going to be expanding their Englander offerings in the showroom as they clear out some of their other mattresses.

Today I came across a store that actually had various Dormeo Octaspring mattresses to try out. Mattress Warehouse in Macedonia has several. (I tried them and found them too soft for my taste, but I like a firmer mattress.) I didn’t get the specs on them, but I don’t think these had any latex. (I could be wrong about that.)

It seems we’ve been to many of the same stores. Here are my notes on my experiences (along with some information to help update the “Cleveland” list):

I also went to Taylor Furniture in Brunswick. My experience was different than yours — there was a salesperson working with me the whole time I was there. While he was able to direct me to the types of mattresses I wanted to look at, he was totally unable to answer my questions about the density of the foam or the type of latex in any of the beds. I was very unimpressed and don’t plan to go back.

A note about Taylor Furniture for the Cleveland list — I went there because they carry Dutch Craft, and they did have a couple of Dutch Craft beds, but the salesman said they weren’t ordering from them any more because delivery was too slow (up to four weeks). They also had a two Boyd mattresses (mentioned in a post somewhere on this forum), but both were floor models that they were selling off. I was told that they are going to stop carrying Boyd in order to make room for more Englander mattresses. So it looks like they are getting rid of both the Boyd and the Dutch Craft mattresses that they have.

Another store that is supposed to carry Dutch Craft (according to the manufacturer’s website) is Griffith Home & Auto in Geneva. They no longer carry Dutch Craft either. The salesperson didn’t seem to know why; he thought maybe Dutch Craft had gone out of business, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. They did have a couple of Enso mattresses — the Dreamweaver and the 12" PureGel Blue Mist (I think)— which I found really comfortable (despite the fact that they apparently have lower quality materials, which is the only reason I haven’t pursued those yet, though I’m still tempted). I was surprised that I liked these, since I’ve found most gel-infused foam mattresses too squishy feeling. (I later learned that my mother had purchased an innerspring mattress from this store that developed a huge impression in the middle after only three months, and the store apparently told her they couldn’t do anything because her husband must have been “too heavy” for the mattress, even though he isn’t even overweight.) So, while the salesperson I dealt with was friendly enough, I don’t think I’d purchase anything from this store.

I did find Dutch Craft mattresses at J B Furnishings in Burton (an Amish store), but they are going out of business at that location, so they were selling off their floor models. While they did have one Dutch Craft Paradise Gel mattress (too soft for my taste), they no longer had any regular memory foam mattresses. They do however sell Dutch Craft mattresses (and other Amish furniture, crafts, and quilts) at a marketplace in Boardman and say they are doing good business there (they just started there in July). They gave me a card with their new business name and address:

Dutch Craft Furnishings (not to be confused with Dutch Craft, the mattress manufacturer)
Located at The Valley Market Place
6121 South Ave.
Boardman, OH 44512
Phone: 330-550-4192
Hours: Thurs. 9-6, Fri. 9-8, Sat. 8-4
(I believe the owners names are Betty and Levi Yoder)

Another Amish mattress option, which I learned about on these forums, is Country Bedding in Apple Creek, Ohio. They manufacture and sell their own mattresses. You have to go there in person, because they don’t have a phone. I took a trip down there last weekend. My experience was pretty much identical to brianj, who had posted some pretty detailed information about them on another thread here.

Country Bedding, 2696 S. Carr Rd, Apple Creek, OH 44606 - talked to Atlee Miller
They offer two memory foam mattresses
Both of them have 2 inches of memory foam on top and bottom (so they are flippable), with 6 inches of 2.4? pound polyfoam in middle (I have notes somewhere and can’t find them — I know it was more than 2 pounds for the polyfoam layer, but can’t remember the exact number)
The gel foam version has 4# Gel memory foam (I think it’s Aerus)
The regular memory foam version has 5# Sensus foam

I found the gel foam to be too soft for me (again, I like a firm mattress). The regular memory foam mattress felt really good overall and I rather liked it — my only reservation was that the edge sank more than I would like when sitting on the edge of the bed. (It was fine when laying on it though.) The construction is simple but solid, and Atlee talked at length about the quality of the materials they use. Prices are good - a queen set (mattress and foundation) is $864. Mattress only would be $768. He said they try to have one of each mattress in stock, but if they are out of stock it takes about a week to make one. They don’t deliver, but can provide the name and number of someone who does.

Original Mattress Factory - I went to the store in Macedonia, and found the sales staff to be very knowledgeable about their mattresses. I tried the two Serenity memory foam mattresses and the Serenity Latex. The regular Serenity memory foam mattress is a good firm mattress that I really liked a lot (said to be similar to the Tempurpedic Rhapsody Luxe - I would agree with that assessment). The Serenity Plush was too soft for me, so I didn’t get the specs on that. I rather liked the Serenity Latex as well, but probably not enough to spend the extra money.

Here are the specs on the Serenity (firm) memory foam - part is from the website and part I got from the salesperson:

10 1/2" thick overall:

⁃	1 1/2" High Density Memory Foam Topper ~ 10-16 ILD, 8 lb/ft Density
⁃	Air-Flow Layer  (if I recall correctly from viewing the cut-out, this was in between the two memory foam layers - it was relatively thin and looked like two layers of fabric with soft bristles or hairs in between.  Or it might have been between the memory foam and the core.)
⁃	2 1/2" High Density Memory Foam Topper ~ 8-14 ILD, 5 lb/ft Density
⁃	6" High Density Foam Core - 28-32 ILD, 2.25 lb

A queen Serenity set is $1499 (or $1319 for just the mattress), plus delivery and tax. (Delivery was $45 and tax was $104.22, bringing the quote to $1648.22 — a bit more than I’d like to pay.)

My notes on the Serenity Latex are not quite as complete. The latex has the advantage of being double-sided (flippable), while the memory foam is not. There are 3 inches of latex on each side (specs listed on their website), with a 4 1/2 inch 2.5 lb density core. They use Talalay latex (40% natural, 60% synthetic). Price for a queen set was $1719 (plus tax and delivery).

MattressMatters - we went to the one in Macedonia. The salesperson there was very personable and helpful and seemed to know her stuff, but I didn’t ask many in-depth questions there, since there wasn’t anything I fell in love with. In terms of memory foam, they had Tempurpedic (so I took the chance to try those out for comparison), as well as some of the other major brands (iComfort, etc.) which I’d previously tried in department stores before I found this forum. They also had AmeriGel (made by Southerland). Specs listed for the AmeriGel Atlanta (a medium firm mattress) were:

⁃	2 in of 3 lb gel infused memory foam
⁃	1.5 in luxury foam
⁃	7 in core high density performance foam

They also had some latex mattresses (Restonic).

Hope these notes are helpful to someone! I know I’ve benefitted greatly from all the detailed information that others have posted here. I’m still searching (endlessly it seems) for the perfect mattress at the perfect price point. I have calls in to the Amish manufacturers in Sugar Creek, and I’ll probably check out the Valley Market Place in Boardman, but now I’m shifting to seeing how online offerings compare to what’s available locally that I’ve liked.

Hi a2dox,

Wow … thanks for taking the time to share your comments, information, and experiences in such great detail … I really appreciate it :slight_smile:

I’ve also added a link to your post to the Cleveland list as well so that others can easily find it.

It’s great to see you are making such good use of the information here and while I realize that it can sometimes be frustrating to “extract” some of the specs you need to make an informed choice from some retailers … it’s always a breath of fresh air when you are dealing with better manufacturers or retailers that are more knowledgeable and that provide it more easily. In the end … it will be worth the time and effort it takes to make the best possible choice in terms of suitability, quality, and value.

I would be very cautious with Enso because they tend to use lower quality/density memory foam in their mattresses (in the range of 3 lb) which can result in the issues you mentioned.

I’ve added them to the Cleveland list as well … thank you.

Yes … the 1/2" airflow layer is in between the two memory foam layers. These are all high quality materials and there are no weak links in the mattress.

There is more about the Serenity Latex with the specs in post #4 here. They use two layers of latex (one is 19 ILD blended talalay and the other is 24 ILD blended Talalay) and the top 19 ILD layer is apparently 1" and the second 24 ILD layer is apparently 2". There would be no weak links in this mattress either. The Talalay blend would actually be closer to 30% Natural and 70% synthetic but this wouldn’t make any practical difference.

Thanks once again for taking the time to share such detailed comments and feedback.


a2dox did a significantly better job than I did in terms of finding material information. Compared to him I am actually a little embarrassed by how little material information I gathered. I am going to give a terribly formatted reply below, my apologies.

Just to give an update, since I rudely ceased posting without giving some sort of info, I am moving into a new apartment in the near future. On the 22nd (so just over a week from today) I will be signing a lease with a different apartment. The plan had been to find something and have them not ship it until after I had moved. I burnt myself out a bit having looked at so many mattresses within a week and have made no progress since my last posting. Also the whole apartment searching, failed job replacement searching (I am currently employed, I just hate my job)… Anyway, I may go back and review a few mattresses again in order to utilize the extremely useful information provided by a2dox.

Interestingly, I had tested the Serenity Latex mattress at the original mattress factor, however I was told somewhere else that “oh, they use sand” in the latex mattress by someone and never bothered to fact-check. This was compounded by the fact that I showed up just before they were closing so I rushed and did not do a thorough job there.

When I was at taylor’s there were no latex hybrid mentioned. However since I was basically pointed in a direction and left to go solo it is not surprising I was lacking info.

The Dormeo have some with latex and some without latex. I was told that there are (3) stores in the area which have Dormeo with latex, most have Dormeo without latex, so it depends on which location you visit.

I have not fully decided, but I may shift gears and attempt to order a latex mattress online in the end. From the very little I have looked into the matter (so a chance exists of me being wrong) sleepez ships the mattress in pieces (perhaps 3 layers each layer made from 2 pieces) which you easily put together. You call them, answer some questions, and based on their experience they decide which layers are which firmness. If you try it out and it is not to your liking you explain what you would prefer, they ship a replacement layer (maybe the first layer changes from soft to medium) and it can be customized for the first 90 days.

a2dox, if you read this I hope you can answer a question since we seem to have vaguely similar taste in mattresses (not the same, but similar enough for my question). What price range are you looking in? I ask because you mentioned that $1,648 is a bit more than you want to pay and I agree and am still arguing with myself if I want to drop over $1,500 for a latex mattress… I have never purchased a mattress before so I do not really have a basis for comparison other than “that is a lot of money” haha.

Hi cnight,

Thanks for the update.

Dormeo has three model lineups (see post #38 here and some of the other posts in the same topic) and the Serenite line is the one that has latex. A forum search on either Dormeo or on Octaspring (you can just click both links) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.

You are right on all counts here except that you can also adjust the comfort/pressure relief and/or support/alignment by rearranging layers and if this is all the “fine tuning” that’s necessary then you wouldn’t have to exchange a layer.