My wife and I (210 lbs.) have been on a memory foam bed now for 7 years. I built it using a JC Penney 5" extra firm base (38ILD 1.45 foam is quite firm on the edges only at this point) and a 3" Sensus topper. We loved the bed but it has lost itās firmness over the years so I got a new 3" Sensus topper but was sent the incorrect base. I calculated the base they sent as a 1.67 lb, most likely a 1.8, but it was a joke to us. It was way too easy to compress. It is to be corrected but I may have a choice of 2 base ILDās in 2.8lb HR 4" foam.
We like a very firm bed and are trying to decide between the 50 ILD or should we try the 60 ILD?
Great web site by the way!
The density of a foam is connected to its durability but not to itās softness or firmness so any density of foam can be made in a very wide range of firmness levels.
If the foam you are looking at is 2.8 lb density then it would be a high quality and durable material.
Both 50 ILD and 60 ILD are considerably firmer than you would normally find in a mattress support core and would be in the āultra firmā range. I would think that 50 ILD would be more than firm enough and probably too firm for most people.
As a bit of history we were not happy with spring beds and shopped for all types including the sleep number type and ended up falling in love with the original Tempur Pedic. The fancier Tempur Pedic models up the line were just too soft the higher the price. That is when I looked into making my own original version for lessā¦
Yes, we like it solid. Also I am 210 lbs. Do you think we would tell much of a difference between the 50 vs. 60 ILD?
Also wondering if the 60 may be more durable and give us longer life as well.
The biggest factor in the durability of a foam is the density ā¦ not the ILD. The āweak linkā of a mattress will usually be in the top layers ā¦ not in the deeper layers and the type, quality, and thickness of the comfort layer(s) will be a bigger factor in the durability and useful life of the mattress than the deeper layers. The more that you compress the deeper layers in the mattress āthroughā the top layers when you sleep on it the more wear and tear they will be subject to and the more the quality/density of the deeper layers of a mattress will play a secondary role in its durability and useful life but you will always compress the upper layers more than the deeper layers which is why a mattress will tend to soften and break down from the top down.
This would also depend on the layers above it along with the body type, sleeping style, and sensitivities and preferences of each person. Some people that were more sensitive would probably feel some difference and others that were less sensitive probably wouldnāt notice any difference at all since they would both feel āvery firmā.
So at this point looking at our 7 year old JC Penney 5 " extra firm base and the 3" Sensus top, I thought they were both shot. My sons Aerus was done and had to be thrown out. His base foam looked good and was nearly as firm in the middle as the edges. So we cut our 7 year old Sensus to fit his twin bed and it is pretty darn nice. My son is thrilled and I could sleep on it and be happy for a while. In the mean time our new queen 3" Sensus came in with the wrong base, to be swapped out for the correct HR 2.8 foam. We knew what came in was wrong right away as I calculated itsā density.
We put the new Sensus topper on the 7 year worn extra firm base and it made some difference. So it would seem that the base wore out first and the topper had more life in it. Bought the high-end base foam to see if we can extend the life of the bed as a whole, maybe out to 9-10 years this time.
Just wanted to give some idea of the life expectations and our experience.
Your experience is interesting and really goes to show that the person on the mattress and how well a certain combination of layers works for a particular person can be just as big a part of the useful life of a mattress as the mattress materials themselves (see post #2 here).
If Iām understanding you correctly your old Sensus topper on your sonās extra firm base works well for him (heās thrilled) so the combination would still have some life left in it if he is the one sleeping on it.
On the other hand ā¦ the same mattress doesnāt work quite as well for you (although you ācouldā sleep on it) but if you replace the old Sensus with the new Sensus on the same base foam then it there is āsome improvementā for you which seems to indicate that the difference between your old Sensus and your new Sensus is the main reason for the improvement since they are both on the same base foam.
Thanks for the feedback ā¦ and Iāll be interested to see how the new base foam works for you.
Well what I was trying to say is that our old Sensus topper on his JCPenney base, which is in good shape as he is much lighter, is almost like our bed felt at about the 3 year mark. If he had somewhere else to sleep I would be comfortable on it. It leads me to believe that our base foam wore faster then the topper. I will add to this thread after we get our new base and give our impressions.
Thatās certainly possible in some cases depending on the person, the thickness of the topper, and on the quality/density of the topper relative to the quality/density of the base foam (although the comfort layers are much more commonly the weak link of a mattress).
So this set up with the 3" Sensus and 2.8lb HR 4" foam 60 ILD has turned out to be too firm. As a test, I placed our sonās used base foam (of approximately 32 ILD) 5" as a middle layer and the magic is there but it is now too soft. (Also tried a cheap 1 1/2"egg crate type layer, just laying around the house, as the middle but it was too soft overall as well) I was thinking of adding a new 2.8lb HR 40 ILD as a middle layer hoping this would be soft enough but still have support.
Would a 2" layer in the 40 ILD be thick enough to accomplish our goal or would a 3" inch layer be needed?
Looking at a1foamandfabrics.com.
Iām not particularly surprised because a 60 ILD base layer is significantly firmer than you would usually find in a mattress and with only 3" of memory foam on top of it then the odds are much higher that you would āfeelā the firmness of the base layer through the memory foam.
There are too many unknowns and variables involved to be able to predict this based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or ātheoryā and the only way to know would be to sleep on the mattress but thinner layers will āactā firmer because they will go from soft to firm within a much narrower range of compression and there would be a higher risk of your mattress bottoming out (reaching itās maximum compression and firmness) than with a thicker base layer (see post #14 here).
Almost a year has gone by on this DIY build. A year ago we got a 3 inch 45 ILD 2.6 queen size base foam to go on the 4 inch 60 ILD 2.8 base foam. The top layer is 3 inches of 5.3 Senus memory foam. (This is all sitting on a box spring that is designed without springs by the way.) My wife can sleep on the floor so likes it quite firm. I found this build to be a bit on the firm side for me and tried a 1 inch egg crate topper under the topper and also between the 2 slices of base foam. This made the bed too soft for both of us Just for kicks I placed the 1 inch foam on top of the ābox spring, at the bottom of all of the foamā. This gave the whole bed the bit of softness/compression that I needed. The wife says it used to feel too solid with no giveā¦ It is amazing what a little spare foam can do!
My son is now 16 years old and 130 lbs at 5ā 10". He and I cut the center out of his JC Penney extra firm 5 inch base foam as it was too soft in the middle. I saved the ends of our old base and cut it up with an electric knife and we ended up with 4 solid pieces to create his twin XL baseā¦ Used 3M foam glue to attach them, then compressed them slightly into his platform bed. He had been handling Latex topper samples and settled on 3 inch, firm (85) from DIY Natural Bedding . Zipped it up in a mattress cover with the base foam creation and he is in love. He gave it a 9.5 out of 10. He says it is a little bouncy and only wishes it was a tiny bit softer. Only night 3 on the topper so over the next few weeks he may get his wish. My wife and I tried it and my be converting to a Latex topper next round although we may be interested in a bit firmer rating.
Just wanted to share our thoughts and thank this site for all of the great advice!! . .
Iām always amazed at how much difference seemingly small changes can make with some peopleās experiences as well. Deeper layers generally have less effect than the same layers that are closer to the sleeping surface and it seems that you found the perfect position for the 1" topper to have ājust the right effectā you were looking for.
[quote]My son is now 16 years old and 130 lbs at 5ā 10". He and I cut the center out of his JC Penney extra firm 5 inch base foam as it was too soft in the middle. I saved the ends of our old base and cut it up with an electric knife and we ended up with 4 solid pieces to create his twin XL baseā¦ Used 3M foam glue to attach them, then compressed them slightly into his platform bed. He had been handling Latex topper samples and settled on 3 inch, firm (85) from DIY Natural Bedding . Zipped it up in a mattress cover with the base foam creation and he is in love. He gave it a 9.5 out of 10. He says in is a little bouncy and only wishes it was a tiny bit softer. Only night 3 on the topper so over the next few weeks he may get his wish. My wife and I tried it and my be converting to a Latex topper next round although we may be interested in a bit firmer rating.
Just wanted to share our thoughts and thank this site for all of the great advice!! . . [/quote]
It sounds like you are becoming fairly skilled and ācreativeā with your DIY designs and itās great to hear that you are two for two in terms of building two successful DIY mattresses.
Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and results with the Mattress Forum!
I did do one thing that I forgot to add. When I had the bed apart I walked all over the 60 ILD base as I had not done so when we first got it. Both of these beds, our queen and my sonās twin XL, are definitely on the firm side of life and are not suitable for most viewers. The original template was the original base model Temporpedic with 6 inch base foam and 5.3 lbs 3 inch topper. My feelings are the Temporpedics have become too fancy and much too soft/pricey. Suppose they know what they are doing though as they are still selling beds. With many things on the market the simplicity/spirit of the original is lost over time and many times not for the better just to pursue increased profits. I do understand that peoples taste are different as well.
The next step for our bed will be looking more into the latex type I suppose. Swinging back to an era when things were more simple and was possibly better. I do not think a total latex bed would be for us as they seem to be a bit too bouncy/jiggly but a latex topper on firm base foam may be the answer for us. Will have to actually try laying on some full latex beds in the near future stepping back into the 30ās. .
Thanks for being here Phoenix and for putting in countless hours helping us all understand this confusing topic of bedding. :huh:
You may have found the closest forum list already but if not then if you let me know your city or zip code Iād be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities Iām aware of in your area where you may be able to test some latex or latex hybrid mattresses.
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