I did some rearranging of the layers. I took out the medium layer and tried soft and firm in the cover. It is slightly better with my lower leg and arm touching the mattress a bit more, but my knee goes up and doesn’t touch the mattress. I think there might be a little less pressure on my hips too. I couldn’t leave the mattress like that for long because it was uncomfortable/hard being that close to the foundation. Then I tried soft/soft/firm, and it’s back to the same alignment issues of the soft/medium/firm. What other combinations should I try? Thank you!
Thanks for all of the great info you’re providing our TMU forum members, your observations and details will be useful to others exploring the DIY mattress shopping experience. Based on previous posts, here’s a recap of sorts regarding your trial and Phoenix’s observations:
[quote]I did some rearranging of the layers. I took out the medium layer and tried soft and firm in the cover. It is slightly better with my lower leg and arm touching the mattress a bit more, but my knee goes up and doesn’t touch the mattress. I think there might be a little less pressure on my hips too. I couldn’t leave the mattress like that for long because it was uncomfortable/hard being that close to the foundation. Then I tried soft/soft/firm, and it’s back to the same alignment issues of the soft/medium/firm. What other combinations should I try? Thank you!
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Were you able to reach LMF for their response to your different sleep trials? Saw that Phoenix suggested contacting them directly, this would be the best path to solving your personalization of their components. You can reach @latexmattressfactory directly from TMU forum here, they are very responsive to questions and have the direct knowledge of how their components would work best for you. Also, according to their Latex Mattress Factory site, toppers can be exchanged/ returned for 30 days less a small return shipping fee. May be the way to go if you want still to try an additional 1" or 2" topper for more of the PLB experience you liked, I would definitely ask them their thoughts on that too.
I am back with more questions :blink:. Since my last post I couldn’t resolve the issue of my feet not touching the mattress. I tried rearranging the layers many times but nothing worked, so I’ve just been dealing with it. Now I am having a different problem, my arms are falling asleep and they are very sore during the day. Out of desperation, I put my 1.5 memory foam topper on top and it helped but my lower back hurts. My question is, what do I do about the layers? My current layers are 3" of 21 ILD, 3" of 28, and 3" of 38. Should I try a 1" or 2" (softer than 21 ILD) topper on top? Or should I replace my 3" 21 ILD with a softer ILD? Or something else entirely? Thank you for any suggestions!
Welcome back to the TMU forum ! Thanks for your question.
It’s hard to believe a year has gone by since your last post on these ongoing comfort issues, beth819. You and Phoenix had lengthy discussions about sleep positions and body alignment relative to how your mattress was supporting you. Also, sorry to learn of the new development of your arms’ circulation and soreness problem. You had mentioned before that the memory foam topper was also a source of discomfort for body alignment/ lower back pain, so I was a little surprised that you added it back into the mix of things, even in an attempt for pressure relief
When comparing the above layering arrangement to the last November’s post, it looks like you’ve removed the 2" 19 ILD topper, replaced your 3" soft 19 ILD talalay layer for a 3" 21 ILD/ plush firmness? Did you return the 2" 19 ILD topper (I’m guessing you did that or exchanged for the newer 3" 21 ILD layer mentioned). From Post 26 above, the layering arrangements you’ve tried previously of “LMF DIY” and “LMF DIY/ with Topper Added” come close to covering question 2: “Or should I replace my 3" 21 ILD with a softer ILD?” in that you’ve already tried similar layering of a softer ILD before. Question for you: during the past 12 months, did you have at anytime sustained comfort with any of the layering arrangements and if so, which ones were they?
I never had a 2" of 19 topper and I also never had a 3" of 19. What I’ve always had is 3" of 21, 3" of 28, and 6" of 38 (I just realized I wrote 3" of 38 in the previous post, sorry!) I thought the 3" soft was 19 when I bought it because that is what my receipt says and that is what was on their website at the time of purchase. But, when I got it the label on the latex says 21ILD. It also now states on their website that their soft is 21. I was disappointed because I specifically wanted 19. I think there is a difference in firmness, at least for me. Anyway, does that clear things up? I hope so! Also, yes I know it has been a long time dealing with the comfort issues but I’ve tried those different layer arrangements and I finally just gave up and settled with the current layering. But now the soreness and arms falling asleep is pretty bad so out of desperation for now I put the memory foam topper on until I figure out the next step. I’m glad I have it because I haven’t had any arm pain/falling asleep since. Thanks again for your help!
My apologies for not accurately following your layering schematics over the long year-old thread, beth819. You deserve bonus points for all of the different attempts you have made to get your mattress’s comfort and support aligned with your personal preferences, good job on all of the thorough testing ! Happy to hear that for now the memory foam topper is solving the arm pain/ circulation numbness you experienced before and hope that results in a long-term solution. Good luck and keep us posted should you find a permanent remedy in the weeks to come.
The memory foam topper is just a temporary fix until I can find a permanent solution with a latex topper. My question is, if the memory foam topper is providing some relief, should I replace it with a 2" topper of 19ld or even 14 ild? Or, should I replace the 3’ of 21ILD that I have now with 3" Ild of 19 (or 14) instead of adding an additional topper? I’m thinking that one of those options might resolve the issue but not sure which one would be best?
Perhaps replacing the 3" 21 ILD Talalay layer with 3" of 19 ILD would give a softer feel to the mattress and provide the pressure point relief you are seeking. Memory foam over Talalay latex is an interesting combination as the Talalay somewhat offsets the “dead” feeling that memory foam can give. The uplifting “feel” and pressure relieving benefits of the pricier talalay are lost underneath the memory foam however; it’s best left out of the configuration long term. Good thing that you still had the memory foam topper on standby as a “temporary fix” and hope that you are able to resolve your pressure relief issues soon .
The memory foam topper is now causing me the same issue with my arms and legs falling asleep. I haven’t taken it off yet because I think it is worse without it. Do you still think replacing the 21ILD for a 19 would help me? If so, do you know which companies offer 19ILD? When I purchased the topper from LMF I spoke to the them on the phone and they told me their soft is 19ILD, it also states that on my receipt. But the one I received is a 21 ILD. I called them about it and they told me the range is 19-21 and I shouldn’t notice a difference. I do think there is a difference in feel. Especially if you are saying to try 19 as well. Any suggestions to make sure I receive the correct ILD this time?
Sorry to hear that your memory foam topper has failed to solve your pressure point issues, Beth; you must be terribly frustrated (and tired) at this point! You are likely “tiring” too of asking the same question multiple ways and not seemingly answered to your satisfaction. Let’s consider your points together:
The short answer is it “could” help if the level of softness of 19 ILD vs 21 allowed correct alignment of your shoulders and hips while side sleeping to better ease the pressure point pain you are experiencing.
While Talalay latex’s compression range is much more consistent across the product, it’s important to understand it isn’t possible to rate each core produced as a “single number ILD”. Manufacturers list an ILD or even a range as a convenience to make approximate comparisons between firmnesses of each latex core. In the case of LMF, when they state that their soft talalay latex’s ILD range is 19-21 and that you “shouldn’t notice a difference”, that would be based on their experience with average consumers’ response to a particular firmness of latex. With your sensitivity to the slightly firmer feel of this particular softness range, you may be better served making some store visits and testing toppers of a softer firmness. Don’t get too hung up on ILD numbers for deciding which comfort/ support firmness is best for you as only your body can “feel” what you feel on a mattress. If you can visit a store, try several softer topper versions, allowing plenty of time to relax on your side (be sure and have someone check your spinal alignment to verify that your shoulders and hips are horizontally in a straight alignment), and make notes of your experience for comparisons later, you will be closer to understanding which topper firmness better suits your preferences. You may also find a quick review of Phoenix’s article"The Basic Functions of a Mattress"helpful, it explains ILD ratings relative to a mattress’s materials and individual comfort preferences.
Are you located near a manufacturer showroom that offer COVID-19 safe practices for mattress shopping? Looking forward to your reply and hope that you find comfort relief soon.
I’m not sure if I’m located near a manufacturer showroom? I live in South Florida, in the middle of Ft. Lauderdale and Boca Raton. Do you know of any near me?
I have an understanding of how a latex mattress works as far as support layers and comfort layers go. I guess I’m just confused on what to do as far as changing my 3" 21 comfort layer. If a 19 ILD is such a small difference in feel does it even make sense to replace what I have now? Or do I keep the 3" of 21 and add a 2" of 19 or less? Or would that be that too many layers of latex to add a 2" topper to 3"(S), 3"(M), 6"(F)? I feel I’m almost there and that one more change will help, I just don’t know what that change should be. And yes. I am “tired” of asking because I feel bad for all of the questions! Thank you for putting up with me!
Using the TMU site search, I found this older Phoenix post featuring an impressive list of mattress manufacturers in the Ft Lauderdale/ Boca Raton area for your review. Some may no longer be operational as the list is an older one, but it should be a good research starting point.
It is only a “small difference” if the feeling of a particular layer firmness isn’t remarkably noticeable to the individual. In regards to your 3" 21 ILD Talalay latex topper, consider this: in your current layering setup, you are experiencing lower back pain as well as sore arms and poor arm circulation, suggesting there is a pressure point situation involved somewhere. Instead of opting for a 19 ILD layer (as discussed previously, ILD is a range in pressure testing value, not an absolute measurement, so an 18-20 ILD range could yield a firmness feel on a scale of 18, 19, and 20), you may consider testing a softer/ more plush topper as the one you have now doesn’t seem to offer correct comfort for your body profile.
A four layer set up may be a bit much, Beth. You should be fine with three /3" layers, once you get the upper comfort layer settled. Please review the list of manufacturers in the link above to determine if there is a showroom location in your area for safe testing of softer Talalay mattresses, someone should have mattress pillow tops that you could try. You may find this list of mattress shopping questionshelpful for discussion topics once you begin local shopping. Make some preliminary phone calls to determine who offers what you are looking for and what COVID-19 procedures are in place (for example, a showroom may offer visits by appointment only to limit a safe number of shoppers at a given time). Be sure to plan enough time for testing each one and if possible, have someone photograph your side positioning each for body alignment comparisons and take notes of your experiences as well.
The more questions, the better Beth . I may not have all of the answers or even the “right” answer, as only you can “feel” what you feel in terms of comfort and support on a mattress. I will do what I can to offer suggestions in hopes that they are of some use. Good luck with your research and keep us updated with any news.
Thanks for your reply. You mentioned that a 4 layer set up might be too much, but that is what I have now. I have 3" of 19, 3" of 28, and 6"(3"+3") of 38.
My apologies on missing that extra 3"/ 4th latex layer detail of your support core, beth819. As we have focused entirely on the 3" of 19 ILD layer that is actually 21 ILD and its possible variations of firmness vs. its ILD rating for many posts now, I neglected to notice your own layering correction in post #29 but was referring to the layers as described in post # 35. I regret the error and appreciate your correction.
To clarify, as we were discussing your current layering setup, adding another comfort layer on top of what you have probably isn’t necessary as much as getting the current top layer correct for your preferences. What you may find useful is a review of your body position when lying on the mattress in terms of head/ neck/ shoulder and lower back positioning, using your current pillow, and have someone photograph you in your different preferred sleeping positions. This will help you determine which parts of your body are not engaging correctly with the mattress and to what degree. It would also provide visual evidence to a mattress expert for helping you choose a more appropriate layering setup for your comfort and support needs. You may have tried this before but it may be worth trying again. Pillows play a role in correct alignment and need replacing over time too. BTW, did you find the store list helpful for research local manufacturers?
Sorry for the delay, things have been hectic and I had to pause on this. I contacted the local manufacturers and unfortunately they didn’t work out because they said there is a shortage in latex right now and that it is hard to get. A couple of them said 5-6 weeks, but even with that their prices are very expensive compared to some of the online retailers listed here.
Hi again, so I contacted a few of the online manufacturers listed on this site and one of them suggested that instead of replacing my 3" of 21 with a 19", because he said 18-21 ILD difference is minimal, he said to get a 2" of 14 ILD to add on top of my existing configuration. I asked if 14" of latex would be too much and he said no. What are you thoughts on adding a 2" topper instead of replacing my 3" of 21? Thank you!
Thanks for mentioning the latex delivery lead times, Beth. There is not a shortage of latex per se but more a production slowdown related to affects of COVID-19 impacting manufacturing staff and the production process. Talalay latex is supplied to US manufacturers either by Talalay Global or Radium Foam and during normal times pre-pandemic, production delays would not be an issue. Glad to hear that you made price comparisons and found TMU’s trusted members to be more affordable.
You can always try adding a 2"/ 14 ILD layer to the top of your current setup and decide whether the added soft comfort layer will provide the pressure point relief that you seek. You don’t mention in your comments, but were you able to try the visual exercise discussed in the last post response? It would be helpful for you to see how your body alignment is relative to your mattress, a picture pairs what you are feeling with how your body is interacting with the comfort and support layers.
Good luck with whichever way you decide and hope that you find the softer topper solution provides better rest .
No, I haven’t tried to take a picture because I live by myself and because of my covid bubble lol. I guess I can try to set up the self timer and take it myself? Would I take a picture of me lying on the set up with the memory foam on top, or just the latex?
I’m hesitant to get the 2"14ILD because it’s already been expensive with the different layering and adding one more is not cheap either, so I want to make sure this is the last adjustment. So I guess my options would be either 2" 14ILD and 3" of 19?
Hi again, just wanted to add that it’s no longer just that my arms and legs are falling asleep, they actually hurt especially my legs and hips when laying on side, even with the memory foam topper. So I’m not sure if adding a 2" of 14 would be enough softness or if I need to change the layering underneath? Thank you.
Using the self timer feature for taking pictures works perfectly well and allows you time to experiment with capturing different sleep positions that you normally use in the privacy of your personal space. Practice several tries to find how long you’ll need to set the timer (10-15 seconds should be enough, but you can decide with a little trial and error). You can take pics of both set ups, with the memory foam topper and without, to better understand how your neck, shoulders and hips are aligned, as well as how your body profile is in being supported by the mattress. Include the pillows that you currently use as well, it would be interesting to see what role their height/ thickness plays in your body alignment. What pillows are you using and when were they last replaced?
Your hesitation of the expense of making another latex layer purchase is understood, Beth. When you can’t test the particular ILD latex combinations in person, the most reliable source of guidance is a detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer/retailer that has your best interests at heart who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses, the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them. They know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else. You mention in post #40receiving advice from one of TMU’s trusted membersregarding an additional 2" 14 ILD latex layer for your current set up for adding a layer of softness, and whether you can decide to take that next step should be based on your understanding of whether you want to go through another experimental trial and what options you have for exchange/ returns should the new purchase not work out to your satisfaction.
Sorry to learn that your circulation and pressure point pain issues are increasing in magnitude, Beth. After re-reading many of your older post conversations with Phoenix, there are a few questions from earlier when you initially were considering changing the layering arrangements for resolving your soreness: what type foundation are you using now and what are your primary sleep positions currently? Have you tried your DIY setup on the floor for several days to see whether the mattress feels differently without the foundation? You may also consider seeking your Doctor’s counsel regarding any underlying medical conditions, specifically your herniated disc and what other considerations those may require.
The DIY mattress path can take time, money and effort (as you know), but can certainly be quite rewarding with a little patience. You may find inspiration in fellow consumer @Paracelsus462’s epic post, “Thoughts from my 5 year mattress building journey”, point 1/ this particular observation:
[indent]“I was convinced that all beds were garbage now with cheap egg crate foam and other cost cutting methods. While this is based in truth, it was keeping me from looking at a major problem which was my own health. I finally was forced to realize something was wrong and a few experts eventually discovered I had a damaged SI joint from a car wreck years ago. It was causing lower back pain no matter what I did. Once I finally had this addressed, I was able to finally get a bed that worked for me.” [/indent]
Hoping that you find a resolution soon to your comfort issues and let us know how things go .
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