I purchased Talalay latex. I know Dunlop is a different feel and firmer. I did quite a bit of research on here before I got the PLB mattress and I tested both and didn’t like the feel of Dunlop. Which is a main reason I went with LMF over others that only carry Dunlop. My BMI is 21.8 according to that calculator.
When laying on my side, I normally sleep with a pillow in between my legs. For example, if I’m laying on my right side, my right lower leg barely touches the surface of the mattress, with or without the pillow in between my legs. With my arm, it rests right next to my pillow and my forearm barely touches the surface of the mattress. I’m not sure how else to explain it?
I bought a 9" mattress cover so I am only able to put 3 layers in it. The combinations I’ve tried were:
-soft/medium/firm in the mattress cover. With this configuration I don’t feel I am sinking in enough.
-I also tried medium/soft/firm in the mattress cover and a soft layer on top of the mattress cover. With this, same thing, not sinking in enough.
-So then I tried soft/medium/firm in the mattress cover and soft on top of the cover. With that I sink in laying on my back, but not on my side.
All of the configurations I tried made my back hurt. So now I am back to soft/medium/firm in the cover and I have an old 1 1/2’ memory foam topper on top of that. This I am sinking into when laying on my back and slightly when on my side, but my back still hurts a bit. It’s the only configuration that is working for me at the moment and has a little plush feel. However, I would prefer to have an all latex mattress because I know with the right configuration that it’s the best for my back. I am willing to try any different configuration, I just don’t know what else to try. Do you think because the PLB had only 1’ of 28 ild that the 3’ medium is too much for me? But then would just soft and firm be too firm? I am so confused lol. I’ve waited almost a year to be able to get another latex mattress and now that I have it I can’t get comfortable. With the PLB, I was comfortable on the first night even though it wasn’t “plush” and then when I added the topper it was great.
My other question is, does the wood foundation have anything to do with the feel of the latex being firm? I don’t remember what the PLB foundation was because I didn’t put it together myself. I’m pretty sure it was wood? It wasn’t as heavy or solid though. I don’t know if that’s contributing or not but wanted to ask. Thank you so much for your help!
Hi beth819.
Thanks for all of the answers to my questions, there is much interest in talalay latex, your responses are helpful to TMU consumer members who are considering this type mattress purchase.
The LMF 3" soft 19 ILD/ 3" medium 28 ILD/ 3" firm 38 ILD talalay mattress plus 1 1/2" memory foam topper configuration you describe seems similar to the PLB one you preferred of 2" 19 ILD and 1" 28 ILD comfort layers and 6" 36 ILD support layer with 2" 19 ILD topper. Would you consider replacing the older 1 1/2" memory foam topper with a 2" 19 ILD talalay latex topper as you had before with your PLB mattress? In your earlier post you mentioned trying an additional 1" or 2" topper as a possibility.
Most likely, a shift from 1" 28 ILD to 3" should not cause the problem with “feel” you are describing.
When you say “it wasn’t as heavy or solid though,” are you describing your new DIY/ LMF foundation as compared to the PLB foundation? A “solid” surface on slats should not impact the “feel” or “firmness” of the mattress itself.
Phoenix
[table]
[tr]
[td]
Layering
[/td]
[td]
Pure Talalay Bliss
[/td]
[td]
LMF
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]cover[/td]
[td]knitted cover (cotton?)[/td]
[td]4way stretch cotton[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]top layer[/td]
[td]3" of 4lb gel mem foam[/td]
[td]3" of 4lb gel mem foam[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]mid layer[/td]
[td]2.5" of 5lb mem foam[/td]
[td]2" of 5lb mem foam[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]base layer[/td]
[td]7.5" of 2.17 lb base foam[/td]
[td]8" of 1.5lb base foam(?)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]returns[/td]
[td]120day money back[/td]
[td]none(?)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]freebies[/td]
[td]2 shredded latex pillows[/td]
[td]1 shredded latex pillow[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]price[/td]
[td]1249.00 (-5%?)[/td]
[td]799.00[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Thanks for addressing and clarifying the questions I had. There is much interest in Talalay latex and your responses may be helpful to TMU consumer-members considering this type of mattress purchase.
Not that I am a specialist but ergonomically this is starting to make a little more sense now. Generally speaking, it is not possible to diagnose through a mattress forum the exact cause of your discomfort and pains as there are too many interrelated variables involved. But as an exercise I’ll make a few assumptions to see if this is helpful to you…. from your recent description my guess is that when sleeping on your side your legs are only slightly bent and more straight. You are probably not sleeping curled in a more fetal position. Even though you are fairly light it may also be that you also carry much of your weight in the hip area which may be causing more sinking-in of your hips comparatively to your extremities that barely touch the mattress. If your body is also slightly inclined towards the front as you hug or recline on the pillow between your legs this could also lock the knees and would create a fulcrum point. A as the lower legs are not properly supported some tension is created by the body trying to compensate for the lack of support of the lower leg and arm which could explain why you started to have some pains. At your BMI you would not need a thicker mattress/topper combo but I understand that you like more plushness so you’d certainly need to experiment a bit with this to get the right balance of comfort/support.
The LMF 3" soft 19 ILD/ 3" medium 28 ILD/ 3" firm 38 ILD Talalay mattress plus 1 1/2" memory foam topper configuration you describe seems closer to the PLB one you preferred of 2" 19 ILD and 1" 28 ILD comfort layers and 6" 36 ILD support layer with 2" 19 ILD topper. It looks like you are considering replacing the older 1 1/2" memory foam topper with a 2" 19 ILD Talalay latex topper as you had before with your PLB mattress. In your earlier post, you mentioned trying an additional 1" or 2" topper as a possibility but because of the pains, you are mentioning I’d do first a bit of experimenting and taking some notes before deciding which direction to go. I would focus first on trying to find a combination where your leg and arm “touch the mattress” and are supported. You could try to eliminate the medium layer from the cover to see if the lower legs touch the mattress when lying on your side and how your body reacts. I would also get in touch with LMF and describe your findings as they know their mattresses and materials better than anyone else and had great success with duplicating latex configs and matching to certain needs and preferences.
You have a few variables combined here and not only a shift from 1" 28 ILD to 3" medium. The comfort layer thickness is different as well and as all layers work together all changes will be compounded. If you test more objectively and specifically for alignment using these suggestions and the more subtle cues from your body in conjunction with some help then you should be much closer to your ideal than if you only test for more subjective ideas of “comfort”.
When you say “it wasn’t as heavy or solid though,” are you describing your new DIY/ LMF foundation as compared to the PLB foundation? A “solid” surface on slats should not impact the “feel” or “firmness” of the mattress itself.
Thank you helping me! Your explanation about the alignment of my body makes a lot of sense. My legs are definitely not curled a lot and are more straight. I also think the upper half of my body is more inclined like you are saying too. My hips are not sinking in enough, but I get what you are saying in relation to the rest of my body. I actually took the memory foam topper off the other day because I noticed my hips were hurting me when standing as if my alignment was off and that was concerning to me. So the past couple of days I’ve been sleeping on the soft/medium/firm with no topper on top and my back is still hurting. Are you saying to try only the soft and firm layers in the cover just to see how my leg and arm alignment is and not focus on the comfort for now?
Before I purchased the DYI bed I asked LMF what would closely replicate the PLB mattress and they said that the soft/medium/firm would be close and that I wouldn’t miss the extra 1" of soft so that’s why I went with it. Now I’m thinking that maybe a 2’ soft and a 6’ core and adding a 2 topper would’ve been better? Not sure.
For the foundation, I was referring to the LMF foundation being a lot heavier/thicker wood than the foundation I had with PLB. When I get into bed I can feel right down to the foundation and when I switch sides at night I hear and feel the latex hitting the foundation, kind of like a ripple effect. Not sure if I am describing this right. The only comparison I can make is that with my PLB mattress, I never noticed or felt that the foundation was there. Again, thank you for helping me figure this out!
I did some rearranging of the layers. I took out the medium layer and tried soft and firm in the cover. It is slightly better with my lower leg and arm touching the mattress a bit more, but my knee goes up and doesn’t touch the mattress. I think there might be a little less pressure on my hips too. I couldn’t leave the mattress like that for long because it was uncomfortable/hard being that close to the foundation. Then I tried soft/soft/firm, and it’s back to the same alignment issues of the soft/medium/firm. What other combinations should I try? Thank you!
Thanks for all of the great info you’re providing our TMU forum members, your observations and details will be useful to others exploring the DIY mattress shopping experience. Based on previous posts, here’s a recap of sorts regarding your trial and Phoenix’s observations:
[quote]I did some rearranging of the layers. I took out the medium layer and tried soft and firm in the cover. It is slightly better with my lower leg and arm touching the mattress a bit more, but my knee goes up and doesn’t touch the mattress. I think there might be a little less pressure on my hips too. I couldn’t leave the mattress like that for long because it was uncomfortable/hard being that close to the foundation. Then I tried soft/soft/firm, and it’s back to the same alignment issues of the soft/medium/firm. What other combinations should I try? Thank you!
[/quote]
Were you able to reach LMF for their response to your different sleep trials? Saw that Phoenix suggested contacting them directly, this would be the best path to solving your personalization of their components. You can reach @latexmattressfactory directly from TMU forum here, they are very responsive to questions and have the direct knowledge of how their components would work best for you. Also, according to their Latex Mattress Factory site, toppers can be exchanged/ returned for 30 days less a small return shipping fee. May be the way to go if you want still to try an additional 1" or 2" topper for more of the PLB experience you liked, I would definitely ask them their thoughts on that too.
I am back with more questions :blink:. Since my last post I couldn’t resolve the issue of my feet not touching the mattress. I tried rearranging the layers many times but nothing worked, so I’ve just been dealing with it. Now I am having a different problem, my arms are falling asleep and they are very sore during the day. Out of desperation, I put my 1.5 memory foam topper on top and it helped but my lower back hurts. My question is, what do I do about the layers? My current layers are 3" of 21 ILD, 3" of 28, and 3" of 38. Should I try a 1" or 2" (softer than 21 ILD) topper on top? Or should I replace my 3" 21 ILD with a softer ILD? Or something else entirely? Thank you for any suggestions!
Welcome back to the TMU forum ! Thanks for your question.
It’s hard to believe a year has gone by since your last post on these ongoing comfort issues, beth819. You and Phoenix had lengthy discussions about sleep positions and body alignment relative to how your mattress was supporting you. Also, sorry to learn of the new development of your arms’ circulation and soreness problem. You had mentioned before that the memory foam topper was also a source of discomfort for body alignment/ lower back pain, so I was a little surprised that you added it back into the mix of things, even in an attempt for pressure relief
When comparing the above layering arrangement to the last November’s post, it looks like you’ve removed the 2" 19 ILD topper, replaced your 3" soft 19 ILD talalay layer for a 3" 21 ILD/ plush firmness? Did you return the 2" 19 ILD topper (I’m guessing you did that or exchanged for the newer 3" 21 ILD layer mentioned). From Post 26 above, the layering arrangements you’ve tried previously of “LMF DIY” and “LMF DIY/ with Topper Added” come close to covering question 2: “Or should I replace my 3" 21 ILD with a softer ILD?” in that you’ve already tried similar layering of a softer ILD before. Question for you: during the past 12 months, did you have at anytime sustained comfort with any of the layering arrangements and if so, which ones were they?
I never had a 2" of 19 topper and I also never had a 3" of 19. What I’ve always had is 3" of 21, 3" of 28, and 6" of 38 (I just realized I wrote 3" of 38 in the previous post, sorry!) I thought the 3" soft was 19 when I bought it because that is what my receipt says and that is what was on their website at the time of purchase. But, when I got it the label on the latex says 21ILD. It also now states on their website that their soft is 21. I was disappointed because I specifically wanted 19. I think there is a difference in firmness, at least for me. Anyway, does that clear things up? I hope so! Also, yes I know it has been a long time dealing with the comfort issues but I’ve tried those different layer arrangements and I finally just gave up and settled with the current layering. But now the soreness and arms falling asleep is pretty bad so out of desperation for now I put the memory foam topper on until I figure out the next step. I’m glad I have it because I haven’t had any arm pain/falling asleep since. Thanks again for your help!
My apologies for not accurately following your layering schematics over the long year-old thread, beth819. You deserve bonus points for all of the different attempts you have made to get your mattress’s comfort and support aligned with your personal preferences, good job on all of the thorough testing ! Happy to hear that for now the memory foam topper is solving the arm pain/ circulation numbness you experienced before and hope that results in a long-term solution. Good luck and keep us posted should you find a permanent remedy in the weeks to come.
The memory foam topper is just a temporary fix until I can find a permanent solution with a latex topper. My question is, if the memory foam topper is providing some relief, should I replace it with a 2" topper of 19ld or even 14 ild? Or, should I replace the 3’ of 21ILD that I have now with 3" Ild of 19 (or 14) instead of adding an additional topper? I’m thinking that one of those options might resolve the issue but not sure which one would be best?
Perhaps replacing the 3" 21 ILD Talalay layer with 3" of 19 ILD would give a softer feel to the mattress and provide the pressure point relief you are seeking. Memory foam over Talalay latex is an interesting combination as the Talalay somewhat offsets the “dead” feeling that memory foam can give. The uplifting “feel” and pressure relieving benefits of the pricier talalay are lost underneath the memory foam however; it’s best left out of the configuration long term. Good thing that you still had the memory foam topper on standby as a “temporary fix” and hope that you are able to resolve your pressure relief issues soon .
The memory foam topper is now causing me the same issue with my arms and legs falling asleep. I haven’t taken it off yet because I think it is worse without it. Do you still think replacing the 21ILD for a 19 would help me? If so, do you know which companies offer 19ILD? When I purchased the topper from LMF I spoke to the them on the phone and they told me their soft is 19ILD, it also states that on my receipt. But the one I received is a 21 ILD. I called them about it and they told me the range is 19-21 and I shouldn’t notice a difference. I do think there is a difference in feel. Especially if you are saying to try 19 as well. Any suggestions to make sure I receive the correct ILD this time?
Sorry to hear that your memory foam topper has failed to solve your pressure point issues, Beth; you must be terribly frustrated (and tired) at this point! You are likely “tiring” too of asking the same question multiple ways and not seemingly answered to your satisfaction. Let’s consider your points together:
The short answer is it “could” help if the level of softness of 19 ILD vs 21 allowed correct alignment of your shoulders and hips while side sleeping to better ease the pressure point pain you are experiencing.
While Talalay latex’s compression range is much more consistent across the product, it’s important to understand it isn’t possible to rate each core produced as a “single number ILD”. Manufacturers list an ILD or even a range as a convenience to make approximate comparisons between firmnesses of each latex core. In the case of LMF, when they state that their soft talalay latex’s ILD range is 19-21 and that you “shouldn’t notice a difference”, that would be based on their experience with average consumers’ response to a particular firmness of latex. With your sensitivity to the slightly firmer feel of this particular softness range, you may be better served making some store visits and testing toppers of a softer firmness. Don’t get too hung up on ILD numbers for deciding which comfort/ support firmness is best for you as only your body can “feel” what you feel on a mattress. If you can visit a store, try several softer topper versions, allowing plenty of time to relax on your side (be sure and have someone check your spinal alignment to verify that your shoulders and hips are horizontally in a straight alignment), and make notes of your experience for comparisons later, you will be closer to understanding which topper firmness better suits your preferences. You may also find a quick review of Phoenix’s article"The Basic Functions of a Mattress"helpful, it explains ILD ratings relative to a mattress’s materials and individual comfort preferences.
Are you located near a manufacturer showroom that offer COVID-19 safe practices for mattress shopping? Looking forward to your reply and hope that you find comfort relief soon.
I’m not sure if I’m located near a manufacturer showroom? I live in South Florida, in the middle of Ft. Lauderdale and Boca Raton. Do you know of any near me?
I have an understanding of how a latex mattress works as far as support layers and comfort layers go. I guess I’m just confused on what to do as far as changing my 3" 21 comfort layer. If a 19 ILD is such a small difference in feel does it even make sense to replace what I have now? Or do I keep the 3" of 21 and add a 2" of 19 or less? Or would that be that too many layers of latex to add a 2" topper to 3"(S), 3"(M), 6"(F)? I feel I’m almost there and that one more change will help, I just don’t know what that change should be. And yes. I am “tired” of asking because I feel bad for all of the questions! Thank you for putting up with me!
Using the TMU site search, I found this older Phoenix post featuring an impressive list of mattress manufacturers in the Ft Lauderdale/ Boca Raton area for your review. Some may no longer be operational as the list is an older one, but it should be a good research starting point.
It is only a “small difference” if the feeling of a particular layer firmness isn’t remarkably noticeable to the individual. In regards to your 3" 21 ILD Talalay latex topper, consider this: in your current layering setup, you are experiencing lower back pain as well as sore arms and poor arm circulation, suggesting there is a pressure point situation involved somewhere. Instead of opting for a 19 ILD layer (as discussed previously, ILD is a range in pressure testing value, not an absolute measurement, so an 18-20 ILD range could yield a firmness feel on a scale of 18, 19, and 20), you may consider testing a softer/ more plush topper as the one you have now doesn’t seem to offer correct comfort for your body profile.
A four layer set up may be a bit much, Beth. You should be fine with three /3" layers, once you get the upper comfort layer settled. Please review the list of manufacturers in the link above to determine if there is a showroom location in your area for safe testing of softer Talalay mattresses, someone should have mattress pillow tops that you could try. You may find this list of mattress shopping questionshelpful for discussion topics once you begin local shopping. Make some preliminary phone calls to determine who offers what you are looking for and what COVID-19 procedures are in place (for example, a showroom may offer visits by appointment only to limit a safe number of shoppers at a given time). Be sure to plan enough time for testing each one and if possible, have someone photograph your side positioning each for body alignment comparisons and take notes of your experiences as well.
The more questions, the better Beth . I may not have all of the answers or even the “right” answer, as only you can “feel” what you feel in terms of comfort and support on a mattress. I will do what I can to offer suggestions in hopes that they are of some use. Good luck with your research and keep us updated with any news.
Thanks for your reply. You mentioned that a 4 layer set up might be too much, but that is what I have now. I have 3" of 19, 3" of 28, and 6"(3"+3") of 38.
My apologies on missing that extra 3"/ 4th latex layer detail of your support core, beth819. As we have focused entirely on the 3" of 19 ILD layer that is actually 21 ILD and its possible variations of firmness vs. its ILD rating for many posts now, I neglected to notice your own layering correction in post #29 but was referring to the layers as described in post # 35. I regret the error and appreciate your correction.
To clarify, as we were discussing your current layering setup, adding another comfort layer on top of what you have probably isn’t necessary as much as getting the current top layer correct for your preferences. What you may find useful is a review of your body position when lying on the mattress in terms of head/ neck/ shoulder and lower back positioning, using your current pillow, and have someone photograph you in your different preferred sleeping positions. This will help you determine which parts of your body are not engaging correctly with the mattress and to what degree. It would also provide visual evidence to a mattress expert for helping you choose a more appropriate layering setup for your comfort and support needs. You may have tried this before but it may be worth trying again. Pillows play a role in correct alignment and need replacing over time too. BTW, did you find the store list helpful for research local manufacturers?
Sorry for the delay, things have been hectic and I had to pause on this. I contacted the local manufacturers and unfortunately they didn’t work out because they said there is a shortage in latex right now and that it is hard to get. A couple of them said 5-6 weeks, but even with that their prices are very expensive compared to some of the online retailers listed here.
Hi again, so I contacted a few of the online manufacturers listed on this site and one of them suggested that instead of replacing my 3" of 21 with a 19", because he said 18-21 ILD difference is minimal, he said to get a 2" of 14 ILD to add on top of my existing configuration. I asked if 14" of latex would be too much and he said no. What are you thoughts on adding a 2" topper instead of replacing my 3" of 21? Thank you!
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