hi phoenix ~ yesterday, i emailed several of the online retailers on the list and am waiting to hear back from them.
in the meantime, i was wondering about the toppers that come in their own covers. i assume you’re meant to leave the covers on and i was wondering if this would take away from the overall feel of the latex ~ make it less springy or something.
thanks again!
Hi missy,
Yes … if the toppers have foam in them then it’s important that they have a cover to protect the foam (especially with latex which can degrade with light and ozone as well as various body oils). If the topper you buy doesn’t already have one … then it’s important to add one unless the topper only uses a very low cost material where it isn’t really important how long it lasts and you don’t mind replacing it in which case having it under the sheets and/or protector would be fine (but still lower the life of the topper)
The best type of cover is one that is thick enough to protect the material and also stretchy enough (like a stretch knit material) to not interfere with the feel of the layer below it. Natural or "semi-natural fabrics (such as cotton or a bamboo cotton blend) will tend to be more breathable and regulate temperature better than synthetic fibers like polyester but are also more expensive.
As an added note as well … it’s usually far more effective to call the outlets rather than email them unless you have a question that can be fully answered with yes or no or perhaps in a single sentence or less. Many questions that are asked by consumers (such as your question about covers) can have far more complex answers than most consumers realize and email replies often lead to an exchange of followup questions which may still not really give you the depth of information that you may want. This usually leads to many email exchanges to get the information you are looking for … with each “exchange” taking a day or two when the same thing can usually be done in 10 minutes or so on a phone call.
Phoenix
i was wondering if was better to encase the toppers along with the base or encase the base and the toppers separately.
and also, is this foundation TwinXL Wood Foundation, Wood Foundations substantial enough to hold 6" of dunlop latex with either 2" or 3" of a topper? and does the foundation need a cover?
thanks again phoenix!
Hi missy,
I’m not quite sure I’m understanding you correctly here.
The “base” (the mattress itself) is already encased with the mattress ticking or cover and this is all it needs. If you added a topper then it should also have it’s own cover and then would go on the mattress. If you had a zip mattress cover that could hold say 9" of latex and you only had 6" of latex inside of it then you could put another 3’ layer inside the mattress cover without it having it’s own separate cover but you would need a mattress cover that had enough room in it to add the thickness of the topper.
On the page you linked it says (under description) …
So yes it would work with a 6" core and 2 or 3" comfort layer and it does have a cover
Phoenix
oh ~ oops!
okay then, how about these:
would these need a cover of some sort?
and would they work with the aforementioned configuration???
much gracias!!!
Hi missy,
Both of these are only the slats and would need a bed (like one of these) to go with them to put the slats on. Without a bed the slats would be on the floor. If you had the bed to put them on and the slats, then either would be fine and both of these would work well. With the combination you could put the mattress directly on the slats.
In general you would be looking for a slatted foundation (or a bed with slats) where the slats were a maximum of 3" apart. A steel grid foundation can also work well. There are quite a few posts in the forum that talk about the many different foundation options and the benefits or suitability of each so I amalgamated them in this thread so you can see all the different options and price ranges that are available.
Phoenix
can you put these slats on your bed frame? don’t know if i’m going this way, just wanted to know. still compiling facts.
have been looking into layering from rocky mountain and mattress.net.
have been looking for a stretch knit cover as you suggested and have found some from other places. also was looking for a mattress protector also as you suggested and have found some stretch ones that wrap the entire mattress (or layers).
i was wondering, why the need for the cover if you have a stretch knit protector that wraps around???
as always, waiting on your infinite mattress wisdom 
might as well pick your brain with 2 posts :silly: :lol: :lol:
i know that rocky mountain has dunlop but if i put together a 6" core of their 34 ild plus 1" 26 ild plus 2" 18 ild, how similar would this feel to the 6" 36 ild plus 1" 28 ild plus 2" 19 ild in talalay blended??? (the nature).
thanks!
Hi Missy,
If you mean a metal bed frame like this … then I don’t think loose slats are a good idea at all because they will easily shift and fall through the frame. These types of metal frames are meant to work with a solid box spring or foundation rather than loose slats.
Mattress protectors or encasements are a completely different product and have a different purpose than a zip mattress cover and are not really suitable for use as a lower cost replacement for a good quality mattress cover and it’s not an approach I would generally consider. If what you found is actually a stretch knit mattress cover (not a protector or a cheap thin cover) and of high enough quality to protect the layers in the mattress, then it would be suitable
A suitable mattress cover generally uses a thicker higher quality material that is meant to protect the materials in the mattress, to help keep it’s shape, to add fire resistance, and also to add to the feel and performance of the mattress. It needs to be durable enough to last as long as the mattress is expected to last and is an important part of the design and performance of the mattress. A mattress protector (that covers the top and tucks under the mattress) is meant to protect the mattress and the cover from moisture/liquid and body oils and staining. An encasement (a protector that goes all around the mattress) has a similar function to a protector but it can also protect the mattress from bed bugs and dust mites as well which can’t go through the material. Again … neither a protector or an encasement is suitable for use as a mattress cover.
Phoenix
i must apologize for flitting from one thing to another ~ it’s my add 
back to foundations. i would like a low profile one since it is difficult for me to get into bed. that is why i was looking at the ikea ones. do you have any suggestions for a low profile one suitable for a latex mattress configuration??
thanks again.
Hi missy,
The lower cost grid type are generally 14" high (which would be about the same as a metal frame and a regular foundation).
There’s a low profile KD type here which is a good price.
The Power Stack foundation is also available in a low profile design.(Note added later: this is a discontinued product)
from My Green Mattress Products
You could also try local manufacturers or stores but just make sure that the gaps between the slats are no more than 3"
Phoenix
thanks phoenix,
now, about the mattress configuration itself.
i know that rocky mountain has dunlop but if i put together a 6" core of their 34 ild plus 1" 26 ild plus 2" 18 ild, how similar would this feel to the 6" 36 ild plus 1" 28 ild plus 2" 19 ild in talalay blended??? (the nature).
thanks!
Hi missy,
The general “rule” is that the more differences there are in a mattress layering the more “differently” they will perform and “feel” but this also depends on the person on the mattress (different people sink in more or less and may feel more of different layers) and the different types of latex or other materials or components as well (Dunlop and Talalay are different for example). There are also cases that for certain people … different combinations or “pathways” of layering and construction can lead to a very similar outcome in terms of pressure relief, alignment, and even “feel”.
This is the “risk” of trying to match one mattress to another that are actually different as opposed to “matching” each mattress to a common standard (such as in post #46 here).
So the mattresses you are comparing have several differences …
First of all they have a different core (one is Dunlop in a “range” around 34 ILD and the other is Talalay? in a range (more accurate if it’s talalay) of around 36 ILD. While he ILD’s are similar … if one is Dunlop and one is Talalay then they will feel and perform differently. One is not 'better" than another … just different.
Second I’m not sure if the 26 ILD and 18 ILD layers in the first possibility you are mentioning would be Dunlop or Talalay. Rocky Mountain doesn’t have a mattress with that layering that I know of so if this is a DIY project involving separate purchases of each layer and then putting them together on your own … then any differences would depend on whether the materials are the same type of latex and whether the ILD ranges are the same as well. Any difference in material on the surface layers for many people would make even more of a difference than the core (although some people would say it was the other way around in their perception)
Finally … it would depend on whether both choices were inside the same type of cover (which will affect the performance and feel of the latex layering) or whether one or both had a topper on a finished mattress and one or both was all inside a single cover.
So comparing “mattress to mattress” takes a lot of experience, knowledge, and personal testing and it’s usually better to stick with ordering all the materials and layers from a single source so that you, with the help of the outlet, are better able to “predict” how close a mattress will come to your needs and preferences as a target rather than the performance and “feel” of another mattress that may have many differences in materials and components.
In general … there are two main approaches to choosing and buying a mattress and each has variations.
The first approach involves “becoming an expert” to different degrees. This can involve many hours, days, weeks, months, or years (some would say a lifetime) of research and experience. How much knowledge, research, and experience you would need with this approach would depend on whether you were trying to design and build your own mattress (different components from different outlets that you were putting together yourself) and how close to your “ideal” you wanted to come or you were choosing a mattress from local or online outlets that only had more limited information about their mattresses, or limited knowledge and ability to help you make your best choices, but at least had mattresses that were already put together for you to test or research. Both of these can be challenging, confusing, and frustrating although the “design and build your own” version can be fun for some as well (as long as they were willing to spend the time it takes to do the more detailed research and were comfortable with the much higher risks involved in this approach). Either of these versions of “Approach #1” are risky at best.
The second approach involves “finding the experts”. This involves some research into better local or online outlets along with just enough general knowledge and information to ask better questions, help you have a basic understanding of the information you are given, and to be able to tell when someone really knows their stuff or is just passing on the “marketing information” they use to sell mattresses. With this approach … finding the experts who sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in and who have the choices, quality, and value that are important to you is over half the battle and the process of making good choices from outlets like this is much more enjoyable, simple, and almost always more “accurate” and closer to your long term needs and preferences. This approach will usually lead to choices between “good and good” instead of choices between “better and worse” or worse yet “unknown vs unknown”. In other words … they have the selection, quality, and value you want to include in your research and already know what you would otherwise need to learn. For most people … they are your “best friend” when you are mattress shopping (like having a mechanic with years of experience help you find a car). This is by far the least risky approach.
My suggestion in almost all cases is to avoid the “first approach” unless someone is prepared for the time, effort, research, complexity, confusion, frustration, costs, knowledge, and risk involved and the “challenge” makes all these worth it. The second approach, for the mast majority of people, is by far the better, simplest, fastest, least frustrating, least costly, least risky and most effective and enjoyable way to go.
Phoenix
have checked out sleeplikeabear and like that they carry latex in many ilds and thicknesses. if i order the same ilds, same thicknesses in the blended talalay, would that get me somewhat close to the pure latex bliss mattress that i have the specs for?
i understand what you have said earlier about all the variables but of all the choices out there, this seems to be the closest to delivering what i am looking for.
thanks again for all your help!
Hi missy,
It would get you very close yes … with only a few differences. The first difference would be that you couldn’t order the same bottom 1" layer and would need to use the firmest Talalay available which is 44 ILD Talalay. This would not be that significant. The second difference is that the PLB has glued layers which would respond slightly differently than loose layers … but you could buy the glue and do this yourself. The final difference is that the cover/fire barrier would be different and this would also make some difference in the performance and feel of the mattress. Overall though … it would be quite close. Lets take a look though to see what you may save with this approach. …
I’ll use the Nutrition queen size as the model that is being “duplicated”.
From SLAB buying the individual components … mattress only
6" core 36 ILD = $975
2" 28 ILD = $383
2" 19 ILD = $383
1" Ultra firm base layer = $226
Cover (rough equivalent but not the same) = $225
Total = $2192 + cost of any glue (if chosen)
Nutrition queen purchased as a whole mattress only = $2499
The new PLB models use Active Fusion on top so this would mean that you would need to order only 1" of 19 ILD Talalay and then add an inch of Celsion (or use 2" of Celsion) which would increase the cost a bit.
In addition to this you may be able to find a discount or added “bonuses” such as pillows for a Nutrition purchase and you may also have exchange privileges or other benefits depending on the outlet that you wouldn’t have with buying the layers.
Another “down side” to this though which is that by using another mattress as a “target” instead of your “ideal” in terms of PPP (pressure relief, posture and alignment, and personal preferences) that you may be excluding other models or mattresses that may work better for you than the Nutrition (or whatever mattress you are trying to “duplicate”) or may have a greater ability to customize and fine tune the mattress after purchase. This along with the more minor differences between the DIY and the finished mattress may mean that the “value” difference between them is very small if it is even there at all.
Of course you could also buy some of the components from other outlets that didn’t have the same selection but had some of the components and this could save you a bit more.
Overall though … you would end up with a mattress in the same value range as the PLB and while they are certainly better than average compared to most mainstream choices … they are not in the same value range as other options you may have.
Phoenix
does the 1" bottom layer make a big difference?
what would be the advantage of gluing? i thought it would be better not to have it glued so that you could switch around?
and i guess i had the stats wrong for the nutrition, which is what i liked, because i thought it was 2" of 19 ild.
and do the ones in the store now ~ that i tested ~ have the active fusion???
thanks once again!
Hi missy,
I was the one who had the stats wrong (going from quick memory rather than checking here). I changed the comparison in the previous post
It’s used as a stiffer stabilizing layer and to make handling easier (latex is very flexible and a firmer layer on the bottom can make handling the mattress easier). It won’t make a big difference in pressure relief or alignment.
Gluing will change the feel of the mattress (slightly firmer) and prevents any shifting of the layers. Shifting isn’t an normally an issue though with latex and loose layers in a mattress that is designed to exchange layers is an advantage for those who want to exchange layers initially or down the road so it’s a tradeoff between matching the exact feel or having more flexibility to exchange layers but changing the feel slightly. I personally would use loose layers though so that if my needs or preferences changed or any upper layers wore out before the lower ones I could replace layers instead of the whole mattress.
Some will some won’t. They will both be available for a short while before the changeover is complete so it would depend on the store. The newer models with the cooler fast response active fusion (the same as talalay GL fast response) will be a little more expensive.
Phoenix
hi phoenix,
i think i’ve decided on the latex mattress i want and looking for a foundation
i am very interested in getting away from the whole box spring thing and getting more storage
in an earlier post you cited this as a good option: http://www.usa-beds.com/glideaway_space_saver_frame-25958.aspx
are there any cons to going this route???
thanks!
Hi Missy,
None that I can think of for a lower budget foundation. My only “hesitation” would be that there is not as much of a supportive surface as wooden slats but this is the most closely spaced of this type I know of and many manufacturers I’ve talked with think it works just fine. The only other possible “con” would be for those who for whatever reason want to avoid having metal in their sleeping system because they believe that the electromagnetic fields that they generate is not as healthy as using wood but like many other things this is a personal preference and depends on each person’s answer to the question of “how safe is safe”. I personally would think this was an issue.
Which mattress did you decide on?
Phoenix
i think i’m going with sleep like a bear and putting together 2 twin xl’s that match the nature and nutrition models.
maybe, just may i might order the 6" core someplace else and then the top layers from sleep like a bear. what you you think of that plan?
thanks again phoenix!