[quote=āGJL3ā post=71482]Iāve now had the new #BME for 30 days and want to update my initial impression.
One thing that has greatly improved how the mattress feels to me is that I got new sheets that are very soft and responsive and they feel as good if not better than sleeping directly on the quilted cover.[/quote]
Thanks for the update. if you wouldnāt mind, can you tell me what sheets you purchased? Iām always searching for comfortable sheets.
Hi butch3217,
In lieu of a reply from GJL3, there is some good information about sheets in post #7 here and the other posts and sources of information it links to that may be helpful.
Phoenix
Made an account just to post this for anyone interested.
I ordered the BME from Amazon last Saturday and it arrived today. I did this because the description still states that it is the original latex model.
I can confirm that I received the original, non titanflex, mattress today. It was manufactured on 5/2/17. I havenāt gotten a chance to use it yet, but for anyone wanting the original it seems that for a limited time it can still be bought.
Hi Omahagtp,
Welcome to the Mattress Forum!
Thanks for the information, and congratulations on your new mattress! :cheer: I see there are still a few left of various sizes. Retailers will often use channels like amazon to get rid of old backstock with model changeovers.
Phoenix
I ordered the newer medium with the TitanFlex material and have been sleeping on it for a little over a month. So far Iām not sure that Iām happy with it. Itās taken me some time to realize that I might not be. Yesterday I hopped out of the bed and took a shower and noticed as I washed my legs that my lower back hurt when I bent over; more like muscular soreness than skeletal.
I actually just woke up from a nap and also corroborated another one of my own suspicions. I donāt feel that the bed gives enough for me, and as a side sleeper, itās more like my arm/shoulder is sandwiched hard between my own torso and the mattress, which leads to constriction and soreness. Also noticing my hip is often in pain.
In fact as far as naps concerned, Iām starting to wonder if my frequent daytime somnolence is because I donāt sleep well through the night. I am getting lots of sleep in terms of the hours I spend in bed (~8 per night), but every day around 2PM I want to crawl into bed. But that could be due to something else.
Iāve been questioning the comfort of the mattress since I got it. Iām 6ā0 and 150lbs and itās like the mattress doesnāt sink enough under my meager weight. Prior to now, thereās always been another excuse for not sleeping well. At first I didnāt have an air conditioner, and my mattress was directly on the floor. I addressed both of those issues and still am not sleeping straight through the night.
I find myself sleeping on my stomach more often because it offers relief ā it frees up both arms from the pinching and puts less pressure on my back and hips.
Iām coming from more than 15 years on a traditional mattress with springs. The same mattress my parents bought me since before I was even in high school seemed to get the job done for a long time. Even as that mattress aged I never had any complaints about it. The only time I woke up during the night was when I would sweat a lot because of heat. So I figured I would be that picky about it and that a medium would be a nice middle-of-the-road option for me. I guess I was wrong.
Not sure if I want to try to the soft option or go for a traditional mattress. I have a wooden/slat foundation and Iām not sure if/how those work with a traditional mattress.
Not trash-talking the mattress just giving my own experience based on the option I chose. Medium just feels more on the firm side in fact I wonder what firm actually feels like compared to this. Never thought of myself as a āsoftā guy and never thought I could be so picky about it one way or the other.
Hi sleepyhead,
Thanks for your update on your BME. Your descriptions do sound as if you may desire something that is a bit more plush on top. As youāve had the mattress for a bit over a month it should have been enough time for it to lose some of its āfalse firmnessā and also should have given you ample time to adjust to it and also lose some of your ālearned alignmentā from your old mattress. The good news is that you have a 120 night trial policy with this mattress. If you think a slightly softer surface comfort might work better for you, you may wish to phone Brooklyn Bedding and learn of any options that they might have for you to accomplish that.
It certainly is possible that you are not getting enough restorative sleep and that is causing you to nap more, or as you mentioned it could be from other aspects outside of your night time sleeping environment.
That would also tend to point to the mattress being a bit too firm on the surface for your comfort preference.
Regardless of the quality of materials and research done before selecting a product, nothing is certain and thereās no substitution for your own actual testing of any mattress, so itās good that you did choose a product with a good trail/return policy.
I donāt know that the issue youāre having finding an appropriate comfort is necessarily the result of your mattress not being an innerspring as much as it is a result of the surface comfort being a bit too firm for your preference, as there are also innerspring mattresses that are quite hard feeling as well. With that being said, some people do tend to have an affinity for springs versus polyfoam for the support core of a mattress.
I donāt think youāre ātalking trashā at all, and I appreciate you taking the time to provide your personal feedback. And realize that there are no āstandardā definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like āmediumā for someone else or even āsoftā for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they ārateā a mattress as well (see post #15 here) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. In other words ā¦ the only reliable way to know whether a mattress will be āfirm enoughā or āsoft enoughā for you will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience, and I would use the terms like āsoftā and āfirmā within a mattress companyās line up as relative comparisons, almost like a number ranking system.
Iāll be interested in learning what you ultimately decide to do.
Phoenix
I noticed sleepyhead didnāt mention anything about speaking with them beforehand- donāt mean to sound too critical and only saying this knowing they have the exchange/return option, but Iām still somewhat amazed at how many people will purchase one of these online mattresses without speaking to the company first, especially if itās a good company and/or manufacturer. Iām virtually positive they would have recommended the soft right off the bat.
Ironically, they did for me- Iām 6ā about 210/220 but I find it too soft. Itās definitely not āunsupportiveā, but I sink in too much (also side sleeper) and am somewhat out of alignmentā¦ given my weight and sleeping style Iām also somewhat surprised theyād recommend the softā¦ with the quilting foam, thereās just too much give/sinking in my weight range. That said, I do āsleep heavyā if that makes sense and guess Iām glad overall that I tried the soft. Now debating trying the medium which would probably have a good chance of working for me, or trying something else first (all latex) thatās more expensive, since exchanging for the medium would be the end of my mattress journey and not sure if Iām ready to ālet goā yetā¦ might be time though.
Iāll also say the quality and finish of the mattress seems excellentā¦ I didnāt notice loose threads or any minor defects and canāt help but like that it has strong handles. I also like that itās not as heavy as an all-latex mattress of similar or even less height, so still easy enough to put on sheets and move the bed around, etc. I really like the design updates with the āblueā theme and breathable fabric side panels (was never a fan of the nylon-like ribbon)ā¦ it seems to have good breathability and the cover/ticking is very soft and smooth with a nice hand feel. The feel of the foam (at least from what I can detect through the ticking/quilting foam) is indeed very latex-like. It may also be a bit more pressure relieving (also why Iām scratching my head a bit about the medium being marketed as fairly firm, even for higher weights) and having dealt with a lot of ārawā latex foam layers, I like that itās not really going to āflakeā (or be as susceptible to tearing) like latex, even if enclosed in a cover. The only thing I wish theyād maybe consider adjusting is the quilting styleā¦ Iāve gotten somewhat accustomed to it but sometimes the ātacking pointsā are noticeable if you have a thin mattress protector, as many people do. They always reference some survey they did years ago, probably with relatively clueless consumers who are used to older Serta and Simmons mattresses, but no matter what they say, the trend is clearly moving towards smoother designs, if not channel type quilting. Overall though, at $700 for a queen, I donāt really think thereās anything out there that can touch the value and why Iām leaning towards switching to the medium and living with the outcome (while saving a lot of money), though in my case I think it would likely be positive.
One thing Iāll add is that Arizona Premium has a strong case of being at the top of the value offerings with their new Ecosleep hybrid. Personally, I try to avoid coils (paranoid about EMFās, etc.) but for those who prefer them or donāt care, I would tend to agree that a good coil unit is a better foundation than 1.8 lb polyfoamā¦ itās going to be more responsive (again, for those that may prefer that) and likely more durable. Overall, it just looks like a great mattress. Thereās also the new Flexus hybrid which is a little more, but has an upgraded coil unitā¦ and Flexus doesnāt charge shipping (and usually taxes I think depending on where you live) so a Queen would most likely run a flat $999 for the majority of customers, not including the MU discount.
Hi Manimal,
Thanks for your very detailed update on your current BME mattress (and your thoughts on the Eco Sleep). Iāll be interested in knowing what you eventually decide to do.
Itās a good idea, and I always suggest a detailed phone conversation with any manufacturer before placing an order. In this case, it isnāt clear if BB was contacted before this purchase was made, so it would be unfair to speculate about that, and if there was a conversation as to what was relayed and the reason for any (potential) recommendation. But your point about phoning prior to making a purchase is a good one. The manufacturer will definitely do their best, based upon their detailed knowledge of their mattresses and how their materials perform and react and how theyāve tested out with various populations, to provide a recommendation that they think will give you the best chance at success, just as they did in your situation. But in the end nothing can replace your own personal testing of a product.
As youāre aware, the terminology the industry uses like āmediumā or āfirmā isnāt standardized, but BB feels that a 6 on their 1-10 scale (10 being the hardest comfort) and mentioning that this model has a āmedium to firm surfaceā is the best descriptor for the general public for the new āmediumā BME, using 2" of the āmediumā 18 ILD TitanFlex over 2" of the āfirmā 28 ILD TiatanFlex. If they had chosen to go with two āmediumā 18ILD layers, then the description would have probably been more toward a ātypicalā medium label. But again, these are just labels meant to be assistive in comparing one model to another in their lineup.
While the āhigh-performanceā polyfoam used in the BME has different characteristics than latex, when handling either foam I would still advise caution and put a āwaveā through the foam when repositioning. As the BME has the layers sewn into the product (it is not a configurable system), this tearing wouldnāt be a concern. Additionally, polyfoam and latex will both degrade and āflake or crumbleā over time from UV, oxidation and mechanical stresses, among other things, but with a good covering (like used here) that will generally happen much longer after the useable life of the mattress has been passed.
The quilting style used in a mattress quilt panel not only serves to secure the upper layers within that quilt panel into a single unit, but it also influences the feel of the quilt foam. The ability to āfeelā these impressions depends upon the thickness, density and ILD of the materials quilted to the ticking, and the ability to perceive this quilting tends to abate over time as the mattress breaks in and loses some of its surface āfalse firmnessā. The tack and jump style tends to allow the quilt polyfoam to retain as much of its plush properties as possible to avoid pre-compression. Tighter quilt patterns are usually desired in mattresses seeking a harder overall initial comfort. Most mattresses require some sort of quilting to secure the uppermost foam layers, along with any fibers used for comfort or to pass flame retardancy (FR) guidelines. Non-quilted construction (smooth top) is common with memory foam mattresses where the FR is passed with a āFR sockā over the finished foams and there is no need to use a cover quilted to FR material. Having nothing quilted on top of the uppermost memory foam layer also allows the comfort and point elasticity of the memory foam to be felt. This smooth top construction is also common with some finished latex mattresses, but component-style latex systems tend to use a covering that has, at a minimum, some sort of FR material quilted to it. There is quiltable memory foam and quiltable latex produced, but it is not as common.
Mattress manufacturers, quilting componentry suppliers and foam fabricators are always looking at new methods and patterns for quilting a product, and the patterns used or suggested are relative to the overall feel the mattress manufacturer is attempting to achieve in the final product, and surveys of consumers (whom I would not term as ācluelessā) toward different designs can be part of that research. As far as trends in quilting, the large majority of mattresses still use quilting on top, and channel quilting is not nearly as common as tack and jump or closed designs. True hybrids, with memory foam being used as the uppermost layer, will be your most common item seen with a smooth top. But some sort of quilting is still necessitated for most mattress designs.
Phoenix
Yeah lol of course I didnāt. The reason I got a mattress off of the internet is to avoid live human interaction, which is something Iāve always generally loathed, particularly when it comes to sales. To be honest, and not to be rude, if I wanted to exchange words with a salesperson I could just go to the local mattress factory and wait for someone to try to sell me something. Iād prefer there be enough online information to make the correct decision; otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose for me. But, yes, in hindsight, I regret this approach.
Additionally, to be honest, Iām legitimately curious how a phone conversation would have helped. What is there to talk about, what information can they impart? (These are not rhetorical questions.) If I were asked to describe my previous queen mattress I would have described it as medium firmness (although considering it never caused me pain like my current one, Iām not sure). They might have suggested the soft, sure, but their website indicates that medium is a) a good choice for side-sleepers and stomach sleepers, the two positions my body switches between, b) the most popular option, so I took that to heart.
The recurring theme when it comes to these kinds of things seems to be that you donāt know what will be comfortable until you know. Your post kind of corroborates this, your phone conversation still led you to the wrong option relative to your needs.
Not trying to be combative, just saying.
Hi sleepyhead- didnāt take your comments as combative at all so no worries, and apologize if the tone of my post last night seemed a little negativeā¦ was very tired and practically rambling, despite the detail. Iām not sure how much youāve read on this site but a conversation with a quality company/manufacturer who is knowledgeable about their product and has everyoneās best interest in mind (especially your own) is much different than one with a salesperson at a āgenericā mattress store. Iāll defer to Phoenix for further commentary there but essentially, they likely would have recommended the soft based on your āprofileā details. My circumstance was the exception and Iām not upset about it (although of course Iād rather have āgotten it rightā the first time), but still think their advice was made with the best intentions given the information availableā¦ I just happened to be more on the edge of the weight range between the soft and medium options (as a side sleeper) and they really felt the soft would provide more pressure relief with adequate support. As mentioned, there is support but I seem to be very sensitive to alignment. I also donāt regret trying the soft and at least have a pretty good indication now that the medium would be appropriate in my situation.
One of the main themes in finding the right mattress- which has been repeated thousands of times on this site- is that only you can āfeel what you feelā on a mattressā¦ essentially feel is subjective, so I completely agree on that point. However, a conversation with a quality manufacturer/company when itās not possible to ātry outā a mattress prior to purchase can undoubtedly increase the odds of getting it right the first time, although this doesnāt by any means guarantee a 100% success ratio on the initial attempt.
Best,
Manimal
Hi sleepyhead123,
While Iām not Manimal, Iāll jump in here and explain why I make this recommendation.
I always recommend that you place a phone call to any manufacturer when you have specific questions about a product, as itās the best way to get detailed and specific answers, and to place follow up questions, especially when you have a specific situation or request. With a phone call, a representative can get a much better feel for your situation and be more accurate, and you can each relate in āreal-timeā (and not have to interpret or attempt to infer anything from a typed response) and also get a better feel for the accuracy and applicability of the information youāre being provided to your specific request. And the volume/quality of information exchanged in the timeframe is much higher than in a chart or email exchange. Even Brooklyn Bedding has acknowledged that they get more accurate results when a customer interacts with one of their specialists prior to making a purchase, and Iāve head the same from other online retailers.
Now, with all of that being said, if you had placed a phone call with Brooklyn Bedding prior to placing your order, they may still have advised the same product to you :cheer: . But at least you now know my reasoning behind this.
Phoenix
I emailed support re: returns reiterating basically what I said in this thread. Theyāre offering a complimentary mattress topper. Iām skeptical that it will make the difference, but Iām willing to give it a shot. Obviously throwing a topper on will take less effort for both parties than trying to return/refund the entire mattress, so I would love for it to work out. On the other hand, I wonder if this is a bad idea in the long term since Iām essentially taking a mattress that intrinsically is uncomfortable for me and contriving it to be comfortable using an add-on. On the other-other hand, if Iām not mistaken, firmer mattresses last a bit longer so maybe itās a better deal in the long run? I donāt know.
I donāt know if this information is useful since this is probably the typical process for anyone whoās tried to return one of these mattresses.
Hi sleepyhead123,
Thanks for your update.
Based upon what you stated here on the thread, and communicating with Brooklyn Bedding via email as opposed to a more detailed phone call (I know thatās your preference), thatās about the best solution I think theyād be able to come up for you.
Itās a common (and often quite effective) solution offered by many mattress companies and stores, both online and brick and mortar, to achieve more plushness in a mattress, so I hope it alleviates your issues as well. If not, you still have your ability to return the mattress if things donāt turn out as well as you had hoped.
The uppermost layers of a mattress go through the most mechanical stress, so in theory using this extra topper can āspareā the foams beneath it a bit.
Iāll be interested in learning of your results.
Phoenix
I would have preferred phone but the return policy page shows their support email address three times but doesnāt show their phone number at all. Looking again I see their number is in the footer of the webpage, I guess I missed that.
My coworker said he returned a mattress of this sort from another manufacturer and the process was to donate the mattress to charity in order to receive a refund. I donāt know if thatās Brooklyn Beddingās process but whatever it is āreturningā a mattress sounds kind of involved and Iād like to avoid it if I can.
Iād definitely like to see what the topper does but Iām also not confident that itāll work given the issues I described. But it will be an interesting experiment.
Hi sleepyhead123,
Correct. And the blue āContact Usā button on that page will also pull up their contact form, chat link and phone number as well.
Yes, in most cases they will request that you have the mattress donated, which not only keeps it out of a landfill but also helps someone less fortunate. Many charitable groups offer local pickup service, but if you would have trouble coordinating this you should contact Brooklyn Bedding and they will see what they can do to help you with that situation.
Do your best to go into this with an open mind, as this is very similar to ordering a mattress that would have a bit of extra surface plushness already ābuilt intoā it, but in this case itās simply a separate topper, and from what you described an extra layer of surface comfort could very well be what you need. But the proof will be in your own testing. Good luck!
Phoenix
Better, but probably still not soft enough. No longer have pain in the soft parts of my sides, significantly less back pain (but not 0%), but Iām not certain itās as comfortable as I would like. My arms still feel a bit pinched in when I sleep on my sides. On some level itās almost frustrating with the topper because I sink in a bit more, but then it sort of bottoms out on the actual mattress. Iāll evaluate it a bit more but my gut feeling is that this isnāt working for me.
What happens when I put a topper on a topper? lol. At that point itās like having constructed a mattress on top of my actual mattress, which it feels like Iāve already done to some degree.
Hi sleepyhead123,
This can create more surface comfort, but you will also increase the risk (depending upon the overall layering) of sinking in too deeply and negatively impacting your alignment.
Phoenix
I contacted them again about a return. Right now they are talking about creating a custom mattress to suit my individual needs, with independent coils, which sounds pretty neat if it isnāt somehow BS. They sent me a questionnaire of sorts asking me various questions about how I sleep and my preferences regarding bedding.
It would be cool if there were a service for customizing oneās mattress: A web application that basically asks things like weight, height, sleeping positions, current mattress versus how much that mattress is comfortable, and so on. Could automate the process of creating a custom mattress for each user (or at least determining the best of a handful of predetermined configurations) and probably cut down on returns significantly. But I digress. (Iām a software developer so Iām always looking for a āproblemā to automate.)
This is really interesting, that they are open to customizations. Butā¦ coils? Arenāt these all foam of some sort?
But the idea of perhaps being able to order a king with one firmness on one half and a different on the other is something that might work nicely for me.