Nobodyās going to judgeā¦ what does āoverweightā mean?
Iām 250lbs. I paid the big bucks and got the 10" all latex from BB. It is plenty supportive enough while laying on it, but if you are the type to sit on the edge of your bed (I donāt) then it squishes right down. I admit when I first got the bed, I was underwhelmed considering what I paid. The first thing I did was lean on the edge and noticed how it basically squished down to where I could almost feel the wood underneath. But once I was laying on itā¦ no problem.
It is overwhelming. There is tons of information. I drove myself practically nuts over a month and a half trying to make a decision. Eventually I went with this bed almost out of complete exhaustion more than anything else.
Iāve had it now for a week. I canāt say it feels like Iām sleeping on a > $2k * bed. I donāt feel like āoh my god I should have done this years agoā or anything like that. I still have restless nights. However, Iām confident Iām getting proper support and its certainly not uncomfortable by any means. For the money, I have to keep telling myself that it will outlast a cheaper bed by many many years, because if I just evaluate it on comfortā¦ it wasnāt worth the extra $$$. For keeping 3 other mattresses out of the landfillā¦ Iām satisfied.
note: the reason I call this a > $2k bed is because I also bought a 3" topper and had to drive 4+ hours to go pick it up since Iām in Canada. So its a >$2k bed to me in my circumstances
I also tried the Original Mattress Factory Latex 9" and 12" - both were soft to me but the 12 was ridiculous.
The Aloe Alexis is what I wound up with (Iām about 215 Lbs, 6ā tall). I cannot tell you it is as good as the total Latex but it does have 6" of latex over 7 " of 2.17 lb core. I love it and can say I would buy this one again.
Hello bcsteeve,
What firmness level (or ILD) did you select?
Also, I hope you post another review once you have had it 5-6 weeks (it takes awhile to adjust to a new type mattress).
It seems that I sleep a little better every couple of weeks on my Aloe Alexis; although, I probably should have picked a level 5 (32/28) instead of the level 3 (36/32) as I do tend to roll up on my side more than I realized - it is a little too firm for a side sleeper.
Congratulations on your purchase and I think you will get many years out of the total Latex.
Jeff
Thereās no such thing as ānatural bamboo fabricā, as far as I know. In the USA, the federal trade commission has published the following:
Wikipedia on bamboo as a fabric:
Now, that saidā¦ bamboo rayon may be desirable for a variety of reasons. Iāve certainly felt it, itās soft and it might be nice, I donāt know. If a company says āwe use bamboo rayon because we like how it feels and performsā, I respect that. If I read āwe use bamboo because itās eco friendly and an all natural fabricā, I think of the fairly harsely written ftc info Iāve linked to above.
Maybe their ābambooā is different, but from my perspective all of the ābambooā covers I see are a low cost man made fabric, with properties which may be favorable to mattress making. Iāve not seen anything to the contrary. (Iām not saying itās bad - in fact, it could be the most amazing fabric ever - I just get irritated when advertising isnāt accurate). Also, there could be new methods used?
(my own bed is organic cotton w/ organic wool, and I was recently impressed to see that SleepEZ advertises they use the same thing).
Glad you arenāt suckered by the crazy retail prices - yes, I agree, sears and the like are the same - I donāt trust them either
I do plan on providing a full review once I feel Iāve fully ābroken inā (myself and the bed). It wouldnāt be very fair to do it right now because, frankly, Iām still not getting enough sleep and Iām grumpy because of it!
I went with all Talalay. 32 in the 6" layer and 28 in the 3" layer. I also bought their 24 3" topper that I currently donāt use.
If I were to do it all again for myself (and ignoring my wife) I would have gone one level firmer in all layers.
I suspect I would have been happier with memory foam for me. But that was out of the question anyway, as my wife really doesnāt like it. But again, Iāll follow up in a few weeks.
I completely agree with your thoughts about reviews when it comes to mattresses (see post #13 here) which is the main reason I focus so much on the materials in a mattress and on helping the members here to have a better understanding about what to realistically expect with a new mattress purchase. Knowing the materials inside a mattress is really the only way to make meaningful quality, value, and relative durability comparisons when you are buying a mattress
The durability of a mattress (or more accurately the useful life of a mattress which is relative to each person and is not just a function of the materials themselves) is a complex subject with many interacting factors involved. There is more about this in post #4 here.
In any mattress ā¦ itās the upper layers that are subject to most of the compression forces that soften, change, or break down the materials and are normally the weak link of a mattress. This is why its so important to know the materials in the comfort layers especially and identify any potential weak links in the mattress. This means that the top 3" to 6" or so (depending on the other factors mentioned in the durability post) are the most important from a durability and longevity point of view.
There are also two main changes that happen to mattress materials over time. These are changes in firmness (foams will soften and fibers will compress and become firmer) and changes in height (both foams and fibers will lose height over time although there is a significant difference in how much this will happen to different materials).
In the case of the Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams ā¦ these upper layers are the 1.5" of quilting foam, the 3" of latex, and in some cases depending on individual circumstances, the support layer on the bottom.
The quilting foam is in the range of āabout an inch or soā which is thin enough and already soft enough that any further foam softening will normally have little effect on the useful life of the mattress. It is also quilted which pre-compresses the quilting and makes it more durable as well. Even if this softened significantly itās main function is the surface āfeelā of the mattress and there isnāt enough thickness that foam softening would have a significant effect on the overall feel and performance of the mattress.
The layer underneath this is latex which is the most durable foam material in the industry ā¦ although as you can read in the durability post, softer latex is less durable than firmer latex (this is true of any foam material).
Underneath this is the 1.5 lb polyfoam (NOTE they are currently using 1.8 lb polyfoam) which for most people would not play the most significant role in the useful life of the mattress but in some circumstances (such as heavier weights or for people that are āon the edgeā of a mattress that is too soft for them ā¦ see post #2 here) this can also play a role and a higher density base foam would be a better choice.
This is also one of the lowest budget mattress and among the least costly mattresses you will find anywhere that includes 3" of latex in the comfort layer.
Having said all that ā¦ there is no soft material that is immune from some softening or impressions and itās just a matter of degree and on how much the foam softening affects the comfort and support of the mattress for the person using it.
In addition to this ā¦ the hills and valleys that can form in a mattress are a separate issue as well that are not only connected to foam softening (although that can play a role). This is particularly common in the larger sizes ā¦ especially king size. There is no way to avoid this completely because in most cases the middle of the mattress isnāt used as much as each side so itās really a matter of degree and time. It can come from either the loss of height as lower quality foams break down and fibers compress or it can come from the gradual stretching, shifting or ābunchingā of the materials in the center of the mattress where nobody sleeps. This would be more common with quilted covers. In addition to this ā¦ you can also have āvirtualā impressions where there isnāt a visible impression when there is no weight on the mattress but where the softness of the mattress or the softening of lower density materials allow the heavier parts of the body (usually the pelvis) to sink down too far even though the foam hasnāt lost significant height. These virtual impressions are more connected to either the softness of the original choice or the loss of ILD (foam firmness) that is much more common and develops much more quickly in lower quality/durability materials than it would with latex.
Outside of buying something that has no give at all and will stay completely flat (and is too firm to sleep on), there is no way to completely avoid the normal changes in a mattress or the materials inside it that happen over time and itās just a matter of degree and on how much these changes affect comfort (pressure relief) and support (alignment). Because some degree of softening and shifting and loss of height is a ānormalā occurrence with all materials to different degrees ā¦ mattress warranties have exclusions for the amount of impressions that are considered to be a defect. Without this every mattress sold would qualify for a warranty exchange with the slightest amount of change in the materials and this wouldnāt be realistic.
Most warranties cover loss of height past a certain point and not changes in comfort and support. Normally the warranty exclusion for a mattress that has quilting of some kind or polyfoam in the comfort layers is from 1.5 - 2" and a warranty exclusion for a mattress where you are sleeping directly on a higher quality specialty material such as memory foam or latex that is less prone to the loss of height is .75". The larger exclusion for quilted covers is to allow for for some softening, compression, impression, and shifting of the materials in quilted cover. Even wool which is one of the highest quality materials in a mattress and is found in mattresses that cost multiple tens of thousands of dollars can compress over time up to 30% of its thickness although this varies depending on how the wool is compressed, the type of wool, and how itās made and tufted. The manufacturers of ultra premium mattresses will tell you to āexpectā this ānestingā but of course many consumers believe that if they paid tens of thousands of dollars for a mattress that it wonāt impress at all which of course isnāt realistic.
In addition to this there are also other factors that can contribute to the ridge in the middle of a mattress. This includes using a box spring instead of a non flexing foundation or platform bed ā¦ particularly in a king size where there are two twin XL box springs with solid wood non flexing edges that meet in the middle and each side over the springs themselves is more flexible which can contribute to the formation of the ridge in the middle. Foam mattress tend to do best with a support surface that doesnāt flex anywhere at all over the entire surface (with a few exceptions that are part of the specific design of some sleeping systems) which helps the mattress surface remain more even.
Finally there is the issue of legitimate defects in the materials that are in the mattress. All foam suppliers produce defective or āout of specā materials from time to time and these can end up in a mattress. Even latex that has voids in the material or wasnāt properly cured in the middle of the material can be defective. These will always affect some smaller percentage of mattresses and tend to show up early in the life of a mattress and are the main reason for a warranty in the first place (you can read in post #174 here how warranties have little to do with the useful life of a mattress). Some of the larger manufacturers use the exclusions in their warranty as a way to avoid warranty claims. Many smaller manufacturers who are more responsive to their customers have warranty exclusions to make sure that warranty claims are reasonable and will lean towards the customer in the grey areas of warranty claims because they are more concerned about their reputation than avoiding a legitimate warranty claim.
The real issue in a mattress and the main factor in its useful life is the loss of comfort and support regardless of whether the sleeping surface is completely flat ā¦ and there are many consumers who have unrealistic expectations and believe a mattress has failed at the first sign of any impression at all or when the middle of a larger size mattress develops a ridge of any kind. This just isnāt a realistic assessment if the foam materials underneath them are still providing them with the comfort and support they need or if the changes are inside the ānormalā range for the type of mattress they purchased. If the mattress is still comfortable and provides good pressure relief and keeps you in good alignment ā¦ has impressions that are less than the warranty ā¦ and the materials in the mattress have only softened to the degree that is reasonable for those materials ā¦ then the mattress is doing exactly what it was intended to do. If they were to sleep on the center of the mattress as often as they do on each side (which of course isnāt practical for most couples) then the mattress materials wouldnāt stretch or shift and the mattress surface would remain more even or even out over time.
So all of this really depends on the specifics of each circumstance, on the actual reasons behind why each person is having an issue with their mattress (vs the reasons an unhappy consumer may sometimes believe is the issue), and on whether their issues are legitimate and reasonable and are connected to the mattress itself or due to other reasons that may have little to do with the mattress itself.
If you know the materials that are in your mattress and make sure they are the best quality available for the budget range you are in ā¦ then your odds are significantly higher that you can avoid or reduce these types of issues in the first place although they will never be eliminated completely and of course there will always be consumers that believe their mattress has failed at the first sign of changes that are completely normal.
It would be great to have more information on the support used in each situation, and the size and number of people on the bed. Maybe Dreamfoam will chase that down eventually.
I agree that knowing and choosing the composition should be the best defense against early mattress failure.
The need to have realistic expectations makes some sense. As for me, I slept fairly happily on a single Sealy from 1994 through 2011. It had probably ādented inā after ten or twelve yearsāI remember sleeping diagonally for a whileābut it didnāt become a problem until much later. So thatās where my expectations come from.
The warranty process is, I think, where the whole industry, with the big S companies in the lead, has really failed consumers. The 1.5" threshold is an ancient rule of thumb that may have made sense in the āold daysā when top layers were thinner and more resilient (hope Iām using the right word there). The problem is that even when new poly and memory foam layers lose resiliency, they still spring back when you get up, making almost every warranty claim pointless. Companies are applying an old standard to new materials, which basically cheats consumers. As one of those cheated, Iām not happy about it.
Things need to be warranted as they are actually used. Imagine if your car warranty was only valid if the symptoms were evident with the car parked and the motor turned off. āWhat do you mean the brakes are squealing? I donāt hear anything.ā
To warranty a mattress, its performance while in use must be measured. Ideally one would warranty that the mattressās total ILD would not decrease more than x% per year. But probably field-testing ILD is too difficult, so how about a standard weight, say a 24" round 50lb. dumbbell weight. Placed anywhere on the mattress, if the bottom sinks in more than x inches below the edge of the mattress, too much resiliency has been lost.
Probably preaching to the choir here, but if the materials of an entire industry change, the warranty needs to change to keep up. It would be nice to see some of the smaller vendors take the lead in offering fairer warranties that more accurately reflect how the product should perform in normal use.
I only wish that the major manufacturers made the same quality/value mattresses today that they did a decade or two ago ā¦ unfortunately they donāt ā¦ especially in the last 15 years or so since the rush to one sided mattress was started by Simmons. You can read more about this in post #3 here and post #404 here.
Youāre certainly right about this ā¦ and in most cases in the mainstream industry today warranties are used as a marketing or closing tool rather than as a meaningful benefit. A big part of the value of a warranty is the culture and policies of the company that honors it and this is where smaller manufacturers that are more dependent on their reputation than on their advertising generally rise above their larger competitors.
This would also be great ā¦ but it would also lead to more costly mattresses that used higher density foams or more durable materials which would then put many mainstream mattresses out of range for many consumers and they would lose market share. The mainstream manufacturers also arenāt likely to ever go in the direction of including loss of ILD in their warranties because it would reduce sales significantly and they are well aware that if a mattress is replaced a few years down the road that most consumers will once again buy based on the current advertising which convinces them that āthings are different now than when you bought your last mattressā and they will make new versions of the same mistakes all over again. This is the outcome of the lack of transparency in the mainstream industry and sadly the market share of the āadvertising orientedā manufacturers is still increasing because consumers donāt know what to believe any more and marketing information has replaced meaningful quality information as a way to buy a mattress.
This is a much more complex issue than you may imagine because of the many factors involved with durability and the useful life of a mattress and the current state of the market and consumer awareness but the smaller manufacturers are already leading the way in terms of the quality/durability of the materials they use and the āvalueā they put in their mattresses and also in the more liberal way that many of them will apply their warranties in real life (oriented more to the customer than protecting themselves against claims). Even with the current exclusions ā¦ their warranties are much more realistic because of how theyāre applied. In todayās market ā¦ ārealistic warrantiesā could also cost legitimate smaller manufacturers most of their business because they would ālook worseā than longer warranties that arenāt realistic or meaningful and they are already under tremendous pressure. Consumers as a whole tend to believe anything that is repeated many times and donāt often look into the facts behind what they are being told so this is as much a consumer education issue as a warranty issue.
Ironically, Iāve seen what I believe the roots of the problem are, even here on this forum. People wanting as cheap as can be and then some, and demanding that retailers provide that option. Where consumers demand cheaper and cheaper, and vote with their dollars, donāt be too surprised that the manufactures/retailers try to figure out how to satisfy that demand (profitably), which at some point means cutting corners.
Heck, this entire thread is on the Brooklyn Bedding thread, questioning the quality of one of their low cost mattresses (and perhaps all of their mattresses). Iām sort of an interested observer to this forum, and Iād guess 50-75% of the folks are here soliciting advice on how to obtain a mattress cheaperā¦ Phoenix has been talking āvalueā, but many seem to interpret that getting the same for cheaper.
Business (which is my background) isnāt stupid , thereās a market with consumers willing to pay cash money though are persistently demanding lower cost. Business is just servicing what the demand is for.
The mattress industry isnāt the only one. How many here have asphalt shingles on their roof? Another industry I became familiar with- the shingle industry (yes, for on top of your house), is similar. Most people have asphalt shingles. They suck. The warranty sucks. There are better alternatives that are more durable, more eco friendly, backed by better companies, have real warranties, you name it - the same sort of tune as the mattress industry. Turns outā¦ cheap crap with minimal value sells there too, because it works well enough and the better stuff is either more money, or, more difficult to find, or both. Sounds familiar?
I get a kick when I see people saying they want an expensive mattress but wonāt pay for itā¦ they found one (often a tempurpedic), and want to duplicate it. Then, inevitably, itās not quite the same. I think Phoenix has been amazing at saying how nearly impossible it is to duplicate the feel of a mattress, and think thereās subtle wisdom in how he presents the info he does. He has said that you probably wonāt be able to duplicate a mattress, but, instead you might be able to come close enough for some people and pocket the difference, which may be of better value depending on the person.
Anyhow, looking back to the āgood ole days, when mattresses were betterā, Iād be curious about what percentage of the average household income went into purchasing a mattress. My guess, like so many things in this new age, the amount people are spending by percentage of their household earnings has decreased ā¦
Everyone here has the opportunity to buy the more expensive modelsā¦some of which have delightful service, warranty, etc. Itās all part of the āvalueā equation that Phoenix laid out. But where most of the consumers decide they want cheapā¦ wellā¦ no surprise, thatās what they got.
I paid $440 plus tax on 8/1/1994 for a Sealy Eden Pillowtop. Thatās equivalent to $693 today. The mattress lasted 18 years = $38.50/year in 2013 dollars.
I paid $461 plus tax on 2/18/2012 for a Sealy Cason Bay Ti Firm Pillowtop. Thatās equivalent to $469 today. The mattress lasted 1.5 years or $307.33/year in 2013 dollars, about 8 times the cost of the previous model.
Yes, my bad for still having that $500 figure in mind when I went shopping in 2011. But somehow I donāt think I would have gotten a mattress 8 times better if I had been thinking $700.
The main issue seems to be the extra top layers of polyfoam. I thought I had heard something about new foams being petroleum-based (by law?) but in this post, Phoenix makes a good argument for it going back to Simmonsā successful introduction of the one-sided mattress.
Oh Iām not saying itās youāre fault sdmark! Itās a systemic thing. And frustratingā¦ Iāve worked in an industry where we offered a āsuperiorā product, and at every single sale we had to try to educate the market about why their notion of value was wrong and why we were better. (Example Analogy in mattress world, why most pillow tops are likely bad for your mattress - theyāre probably cheaply made and will fail fast).
The company I was with eventually failed - national leader & pioneer to bankrupt. One lesson I learned is, if you are trying to tell the market / the customers what they need, or having to āeducateā each one significantly prior to sale, youāll almost inevitably fail. Itās exasperating to offer a great product at great price, and have customers tell you itās still too expensive and take their money elsewhere (and then complain their new product failed in exactly the way you try to coach your customers will happen). At some point, as a business (especially if you canāt find enough customers who do value the extra benefits you offer), you say screw it and sell what people are willing to spend cash on- at the end of the day, itās their decision.
I believe one of the better aspects of this forum is helping educate the consumer, so the mattress makers that make good products donāt need to.
āBetterā really depends on how you define it and includes subjective, objective, and intangible elements.
One part of ābetterā is the suitability of a mattress and how well you sleep on it and this canāt be measured except subjectively. If you buy a mattress that costs $2000 and the materials are too soft ā¦ then even a small amount of foam softening can put you outside the range of comfort and support that is suitable for you. In some cases it may be unsleepable from the beginning. In this case the mattress would only be useable for very short period of time if at all even though the materials themselves are nowhere close to being āworn outā and it may be a lower cost than any other mattress that used similar materials. Even the best quality and value mattress in the world would have little value for someone that couldnāt sleep on it because the design wasnāt suitable for them and in this case a mattress that was suitable may be 100 times ābetterā than one you canāt sleep on at all no matter what the quality or price. How do you objectify the quality of sleep in any meaningful way and yet this is arguably the most important part of a mattress purchase and will have a bigger effect on how you feel than any other part of a mattress purchase.
Another part of value ā¦ and a big part of what you pay for ā¦ is the quality and durability of the materials. This is something that you canāt feel in a showroom because even the lowest quality materials can feel the same as higher quality materials ā¦ for a while. Once again though as the lower quality materials change, soften, or break down more quickly over time ā¦ the mattress can quickly cross your threshold and be outside the range of what is suitable for you even if it is still suitable for someone else who purchased the same mattress and had more āroomā in their range of comfort and support that was suitable for them. Higher quality materials will stay closer to their original specifications for a longer period of time.
There are also many other parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase that may be part of each personās āpersonal value equationā and are outlined in post #46 here. For some people a relatively small difference between mattresses or the options that a mattress provides or a retailer or manufacturer makes available may be highly significant and āvaluableā for them ā¦ even if it wasnāt for someone else. For some people ā¦ the difference in sleep quality between good and great or the ability of a retailer to help them find the mattress that is ābestā for them may be worth 10 times the cost for them if nothing else comes close to their ideal.
In many cases who you buy from can be just as important a part of a successful purchase as what you buy.
In other wordsā¦ āvalueā can include objective, subjective, and even intangible elements and to reduce it to only one of these (such as durability alone which is also relative to each person) or to a formula can lead to paying the price in different ways including the quality of their sleep. If someone sleeps well on a mattress for 10 years and on another mattress they only sleep well for a year and then sleep OK or worse for another 9 years with the mattress gradually getting worse and worse until they canāt stand it any more and finally decide to replace it ā¦ how much ābetterā is the first mattress than the second. Both of them ālastedā for the same length of time. The real cost of a poor choice can be much more than any difference in price between two mattresses. At the end of the day most people will remember much more about how well they slept on a mattress and how long it lasted than they will about what they paid for it when it was new.
Not only the extra top layers or the lack of two sided mattresses but also the quality of the top layers as well as there has been a trend in the mainstream industry towards using lower quality materials and charging higher prices. Some of the āmythsā that many consumers believe include things like āa thicker mattress is betterā. A foam can be made from many raw materials and there is no law that it needs to use petrochemicals. As a matter of fact there is a current industry trend towards replacing petrochemicals with plant based alternatives although itās also the basis for a great deal of greenwashing (see post #2 here).
In the end ā¦ āvalueā is really an assessment that is as individual and unique as each person and canāt really be reduced to a formula.
Phoenix
PS: @dn I agree with the points you made and your insights completely ā¦ and some of the best quality/value manufacturers in the country are not as good at ācompetingā in the face of the overwhelming ānoiseā of advertising that is so common in the industry today even though they are much ābetterā in any meaningful evaluation that includes real quality or value.
Phoenix, maybe I was oversimplifying, but I think both mattresses were probably equally comfortable to start, and let me sleep well. So I was using longevity and durability to compare.
Just for grins, I took a very brief look at the German mattress market. When I lived there in the 1980s, they seemed less subject to hype and fads than Americans. I get the impression that is still the case. That may be in part because of the long tradition of smaller, local vendors for home goods (though Iām sure the Internet, as well as big stores like Ikea, are putting national pressure on them). For example, this page by a 3-person store in a Berlin suburb has a nice overview and pictures of mattress types:
Glancing at the pics in their store, almost all mattresses are reversible, most look to have fairly thin comfort layers, and there is nary a pillowtop in sight:
Imagine, a whole country sleeping without pillowtops! (Donāt tell Sealy/Simmons/Serta.)
I completely agree with you that the European market is very much different and more advanced in design and technology than the North American market. They are also much more minimalistic and donāt go overboard with mattress designs nearly as much as you see here. They also tend to use more technology and fabrication in their mattresses such as cutaways in various zones and surface modifications to reduce the need for separate comfort layers. Much of the ānewā designs that are introduced in North America originates in Europe. Thinner mattresses are certainly more the norm there and materials like latex are much more common. Even the foam materials are different there and they even have some companies that make polyfoam and memory foam that is OekoTex certified (the same certification for VOCās and safety that is more common for latex here). They also have Interzum which is probably the single best furniture ad mattress trade show in the world and anyone I know that has gone there tells me that it is head and shoulders above any of the shows in North America.
I was curious how prices compare. Ikea Germany offers the Favang and Fjordgard that I looked at here, with identical layers and thicknesses. Their largest mattress is 63 x 79 inches. Comparing that to the smaller 60 x 80 queen size at Ikea San Diego:
Favang
Germany: $202 + 19% tax = $229
San Diego: $329 + 8% tax = $355
Pre-tax price 62% higher in San Diego
Fjordgard
Germany: $508 + 19% tax = $606
San Diego: $679 + 8% tax = $733
Pre-tax price 34% higher in San Diego
Such a comparison is anecdotal, of course, and the higher U.S. prices could be in part because it costs Ikea more to import here. But if the prices are also a indication of what the market will bear, it seems Ikea is surviving on much less there, and even after Germanyās 19% sales tax, consumers get a better deal too.
Thread got a bit off-topic but something related -
Looking around BB seems to have the best web site to find info their ānormalā products compared to other vendors. Unfortunately the Dreamfoam listings are not there and on Amazon can be a bit lacking. Phoenix has said the best is to talk to the vendors. After going through hundreds of posts here I can understand that.
Your right that this thread did go somewhat off topic although the discussion certainly has been interesting
I completely agree with you on this (as you know) and I would strongly encourage anyone to have a more detailed phone conversation to talk about comfort choices or specific information about their mattresses with any online retailer or manufacturer. They know more about their mattresses and the materials they use than anyone and will almost always be the most reliable source of good information both about the details of their mattresses and about the comfort choices that may work best based on the averages of their customers that have a similar body type, sleeping style, and preferences.
Quick Reply killed me again. Typed a response, clicked on Reply, message deleted!
Had a useful conversation yesterday with Mario at BB about their return policy and the very attractive idea of being able to upgrade from a topper to a mattress.
Mario couldnāt talk about Dreamfoam, and the Dreamfoam number went to voicemail, so I sent an email. No response yet.
Iām not sure whatās happening with the quick reply (I used it for this reply and it seems to work for me) but it may have to do with session timeouts and/or temporary disconnects from wireless. Over many years on various forums Iāve developed the habit of highlighting and copying all my replies on forums before I click submit because murphyās law (what can go wrong will go wrong) always seems to apply and if a post is going to be lost in the ether then it always seems to be the ones that take the most time
