15 days have passed, I kept the 36/28 ILD combo and sent the 32 ILD slice of Latex back - really easy process except for getting the unused slice of foam in the plastic (very floppy).
What I like is that I can side-sleep without soreness; however, it is still firm for my wife (the stomach sleeper) and when I sleep on my back.
I have already sang praises for the Aloe Alexis so I wonât rehash all of thatâŚSuffice it to say, Almost three months have past since I first received the mattress and I still love it and have better health as a result.
Hi jefmoody,
Thanks for the update I appreciate it.
Iâm glad the layer exchange worked out well for you 
Phoenix
Well this is my experience⌠So far, Happy with the Product, although not sure I would call this Honest Sales.
This is NOT about the petty amount of $⌠I am simply disappointed with the tactic used to make the sale rather than being upfront about the delivery date.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Hart
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 2:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Enquiry Ben Hart
Hi,
My wife and I recently purchased a King Size, Bamboo Bliss from your company, order (####)
So far, we are really happy with the quality and comfort of the mattress and it seams the reviews we read on sites like themattressunderground.com represent your company well when it comes to the quality of your product.
I also found the sales staff to be extremely helpful in selecting the mattress and even gave us a discount to compensate for not being able to deliver the mattress before the weekend, however, therein lies the problem⌠Having recently moved from Australia, we where scheduled to move into our new apartment and we were promised the mattress would arrive on Monday March 31st. When we arrived to the apartment that afternoon, we found that the mattress had not arrived, after phoning Fedex, we were advised that the commitment date was actually Wednesday the 2nd April and not Monday as we had been advised.
As we had no mattress, we were forced to find an alternative accommodation for the evening and slept on an air mattress the following evening. While itâs difficult to put a price on the frustration, inconvenience and bad night sleeps caused by this, I would at least like to request we are compensated for the $114 it cost us for accommodation the night our mattress didnât show up which is about as cheap as accommodation comes in NY unless you are willing to risk bed bugs!
Looking forward to your response and happy to forward receipts for accommodation if required.
Response
On 8 April 2014 09:32, Mario Sevilla [email protected] wrote:
Hello Ben,
I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, we arrange the shipments with FedEx to arrive within 3 business days of the date requested on, I see that the request was to have the mattress arrive on or just after the 31st so that this did not arrive before you were fully moved. Unfortunately we are not able to arrange a specific date for delivery and are at the mercy of FedEx ground service. As we do not charge shipping and we also included an additional $150 discount I am unfortunately not going to be able to allow additional compensation as requested. Enjoy your new mattress and thank you again for shopping with us! Please feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions.
Best Regards,
Mario Sevilla | Sales Manager |
www.brooklynbedding.com
From: Ben Hart
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 7:55 AM
To: Mario Sevilla
Subject: Re: Enquiry Ben Hart
Mario,
The request was to have the mattress to be delivered on or before Saturday the 29th! The 150 was to compensate for the additional Saturday and Sunday night we would need to extend our hotel stay, NOT for the Monday and Tuesday. Had you advised the earliest time of arrival would be Monday and that it could possibly be Tuesday or Wednesday, there is NO WAY we would have proceeded with the sale. You advised it WOULD be there by Monday⌠We set our official move in date to Monday based on the assumption it would arrive Monday, we already had access to the apartment on FRIDAYâŚ
If you still have access to the chat transcript, this should be quite clear. I appreciate that everyone is at the mercy of the delivery company, however, Fedex held up their end of the agreement, you were not forthcoming in the actual commitment date of the 2nd.
I hope this email has clarified our position and again, I will give you the opportunity to compensate us for the financial loss caused.
Regards
Ben
Hello Ben,
I Apologize, I am not going to be able to offer any additional discount for your order. Please feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions.
Regards,
Mario Sevilla
Quite unhappy with the product that I received from Brooklyn Bedding. I ordered the 12" Bamboo Bliss in King size and was excited for our new mattress. When it arrived and we let it expand the mattress is just a hair over 2" smaller than the advertised King size standard. Contacted customer support and was told this was my fault that I should have ordered a custom mattress if I wanted it to actually be standard king sized. Only option was to spend additional money with this company to fix a problem that was caused by their mattress to begin with. Would not recommend this company to anyone due to their customer service practices and short changing me on mattress size. Customer could not be bothered with my problems.
Hi Deli,
Iâm sorry that youâre unhappy but it also seems to me that your mattress is inside their ânormalâ size range and it doesnât seem reasonable to expect them to âfixâ something that isnât âwrongâ in the first place and is inside their normal tolerances (which of course they wouldnât do). While many consumers may not realize it ⌠mattresses are made out of soft materials and donât come in âexactâ sizes like lumber or other hard materials. You may also have measured the mattress incorrectly because a mattress cover will pull in the edges to some degree so some parts of the mattress may be wider or longer than others.
Based on my knowledge of and interactions with Brooklyn Bedding ⌠itâs also very unlikely that the âtoneâ of the conversation went the way you suggested and itâs much more likely that they told you something along the lines of my comments (that mattresses donât come in âexactâ sizes" and that there is little they can do for a mattress that is inside their size tolerance). Itâs not that they âcouldnât be botheredâ but that the mattress they delivered to you is within the tolerances that are listed on their site.
If itâs a significant issue for you then you also have the option to return the mattress of course but that would involve some shipping costs (see here). You can see their standard size variance here and by clicking on the question mark beside the size selector for each of their mattresses.
Phoenix
For whatever it may be worth⌠Iâm still a little disappointed by the sizing as well. It really is âtoo smallâ, and I donât think its necessarily fair to chalk it up to âthese things arenât exactâ. Queen is a queen is a queen. while there is always going to be some tolerance, I have never had a mattress not fit my bed frame and I donât think it is a coincidence that the above author and myself have a mattress that is noticeably too small. My opinion is that they (and I) have a valid complaint. It never occurred to me that Iâd be able to see the ugly wood slats because the mattress is several inches smaller than it should be. I figured it might expand over time, but it hasnât.
Which reminds me, I never did follow up with a complete review after a couple of months like I said I would.
Its been almost a year⌠really not much has changed from my last evaluation. I canât say it was worth the money in terms of comfort to quality of sleep. I sleep OK on it and it is comfortable, but nothing special. I do feel like Iâm better off compared to my old bed (but thatâs not saying much as it was a long-overdue replacement) but I really canât say a ânormalâ bed wouldnât have been as good or better. Again, thatâs in terms of comfort and sleep.
Iâm still happy with the purchase in terms of perceived durability. I do believe this mattress will outlast other options by a good margin, and anything that keeps masses of material out of the landfill is high up in my books. But I realize most people donât think like that (unfortunately).
I agree with bcsteve, one of the main reasons that I went with Brooklyn Bedding was due to reviews that I had read with everyone loving their mattresses and not really having any complaints. When I contacted BBâs customer service I was told the same line that it is on the very far end but still within their allowed variance. The service rep followed this up with well just move it so there is an inch of bare frame on either side as if this is a standard way of dealing with this. While I understand that mattresses are soft material and manufacturing irregularities happen it is still frustrating that the rep follow up his comment with âIf you needed a bed to be a certain size (such as standard King size measurements) then you should have ordered as a special order and more attention is spent on your mattress to make sure it is the right size.â To me that just seems like laziness on the companyâs part that only special orders happen to be the size that is quoted. I donât know I was expecting a wonderful mattress with awesome customer service as comments above had lead me to believe and instead I got an alright mattress with disinterested and lacking customer service. :dry:
Hi bcsteve and deli,
While I certainly understand that someone that has a different expectation about a mattress size than what they received (or anything that is different from what they âexpectedâ) may be disappointed and will also be more likely to agree with others that share the same experience or viewpoint ⌠the reality in the industry is that standard sizes can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer (see post #3 here) and if a manufacturer supplies a mattress that is inside the tolerance that is published on their site then they have provided the product that they agreed to provide and this would be part of the pros and cons of dealing with any manufacturer.
If a manufacturer supplies a product that is âout of specâ based on their own published criteria then that would be a different issue but thatâs not the case here.
@ bcsteve
Thanks for the update as well ⌠I appreciate it.
Phoenix
Youâre welcome.
I disagree that the issue has anything at all to do with a manufacturerâs âspecâ.
If you went to a car dealer and asked for a car and they sold you a car and you expected 4 wheels and yours came with three and somewhere in the fineprint it said â4 + or - 1 wheelâ, but every other car in the world comes with 4⌠youâd be a bit miffed, fine print be damned. A queen, a king⌠twin, full⌠these all mean something. Of course there will be tolerances, but not this much. A quarter of an inch here or there and nobody notices. Thatâs different. I donât have to bother with a tape measurer to know this is WAY more than a quarter of an inch. Iâd say mine is about 2.5 inches too narrow and too short. To me, this is a case of the manufacturer delivery cars with three wheels. Why call it a âqueenâ or a âkingâ if they really mean âsome random size that may or may not reflect industry standards or fit any given frame, sheets, blankets, etcâ
Fine print gets you out of legal trouble⌠not customer perception trouble.
With that said, however, I never did contact BB about it. Their customer service has been stellar with any dealing I did have with them.
Hello bcsteeve,
First off I would like to apologize for any inconvenience in this matter, This is the first I have heard about your experience. If you would not mind emailing over some photos to my email I would be happy to review this and see what we are able to do. If your mattress is over 2" less than the specified measurements I would like to have our manufacturing department take a look at it. The best way to measure the mattress would be to flip the bed over and measure the bottom since it is more of a flat surface. Measure from seam to seam horizontally and vertically and snap a photo of the measurements. I will include my email address below. Please feel free to contact me by phone as well if you have any questions.
Regards,
Mario Sevilla
Brooklyn Bedding
480.323.8831
mariosevilla@brooklynbedding
Hello Mario.
Thatâs great that youâre taking an active concern.
In my personal situation, I figured thereâs really no reasonable actions you could possibly take, which is why I never bothered to contact you about it. As you may remember, Iâm in Canada and I drove 4+ hours to pick up the mattress from a WA state address. I also ordered a topper with a lower ILD (that I ended up not using) in case I had to make adjustments, specifically because the layer exchange doesnât really apply to me since its not worth the drive back for an exchange. For the same reasons, its not worth complaining and packing it up and sending it back. But I donât hold that against you⌠those are my circumstances and I take and evaluate that risk whenever I make a purchase online for pickup.
Its not like it really affects the purpose of the bed. The only reason I mentioned it here, was to back up the other poster who was being responded to, I felt, like he was perhaps exaggerating and being too picky about something that falls in manufacturing tolerance guidelines. If his experience is like mine, and it sounds like it was, then I can certainly understand his displeasure. To me, its not that big of a deal (although it does still annoy my wife and I that we can so obviously see the slats where thatâs never been the case with any mattress before) but I can understand why it would be upsetting enough for someone else to complain.
Anyway, for myself, I wouldnât bother taking photos and sending them to you for some sort of recourse⌠if that was important to me enough, I would have done it a year ago. But⌠for YOU, if you want this evidence for your own manufacturing improvements, etc, then yes I can provide you with this. As you know, the mattress is⌠well⌠unwieldy. So flipping it isnât really a convenient task so it will have to wait a bit.
In any event, I commend you for reaching out. Unlike the above poster, I never had any issue with the customer service provided.
Hi bcsteve,
I know you were just trying to make a point but I donât think that comparing mattress variances to 3 wheeled cars is a particularly good analogy or comparison.
Sizing variances are part of the mattress industry and I think a better comparison would be with clothing sizes or shoe sizes which also have âstandardâ sizes that can vary widely between manufacturers. I donât know of any manufacturer that builds their mattresses with 1/4" tolerances.
If a mattress has a variance that is more than the published variance for a particular manufacturer then it would be âout of specâ and would of course be reasonable to treat it as a manufacturing defect in the mattress.
Phoenix
Youâd know better than I, certainly, but it would be my guess that if I walked into my local Sears with a tape measure that Iâd find every single mattress to be within a quarter inch⌠half at worst. But hey, thatâs just my guess. Why do I bother to type that? Just to show where the expectation comes from. It would shock me if I found more of a variance than that. So if it is the case that latex mattresses have a much higher variance compared to mass-produced box spring, then the industry need to do a better job of getting out in front of that and making sure customers understand what to expect.
Tires, shoes⌠it doesnât matter. It comes down to expectations. It certainly was my expectation that a queen mattress would fit my queen frame and if it were out by X inches that I wouldnât actually perceive that without measuring. Iâm in manufacturing. I know all about tolerances. These are things engineers have to be concerned with, not customers. If a manufacturerâs tolerance is passed down to a customer in a way that they perceive it, then its a âdefectâ whether or not some statement says its within specs. And thatâs why my car analogy was, in fact, on point. The point being if the âspecsâ say that 3 wheels are âokâ (according to the engineers) that means squat if the customer feels he paid for 4. Ultimately the engineer is always wrong. Why? Because, as the world knows, the customer is ALWAYS right. Those that think the âcustomer is always rightâ mantra is wrong, donât understand who is paying the bills.
bcsteeve, I appreciate the support and your explanations as well. We do state this variance since these mattresses are all made by an individual(s) they are all unique and can differ from time to time. I believe our production team does the best job they can to craft and replicate each mattress to one another to make sure the quality and comfort meets the needs of all our customers. I am also happy to correct any issue that any one of our mattresses may have be it a big or small issue we are happy to handle it.
Deli, I extend my same offer and suggestion and would like you to contact me directly to discuss. We really do pride our selves on our customer service along with the high quality merchandise we offer, I would be happy to help in any way I can to explain or take the necessary action to correct this for you. Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions at all.
Best regards,
Mario
Brooklyn Bedding
480.323.8831
Hi bcsteeve,
We have some disagreement here ⌠and I certainly donât believe that a customer is always right and in many cases far from it (although this is certainly a premise that many people believe). For me it always depends on whether a customer is being reasonable or âfairâ.
If you look at online reviews and some of the comments that are made in them (including in some cases on the forum here) it becomes clear very quickly that customers are certainly not always right and there are many cases where I have seen customers that I wouldnât choose to do business with and are completely unreasonable (NOTE: none of this is in reference to anyone posting in this topic just to make this very clear). The reality is that I talk with many manufacturers or retailers on a daily basis that breathe a sigh of relief when some customers purchase from somewhere else because they know that some customers can harm their business much more than help it. Of course this isnât something that they would say in public because of the nature of the consumer market and online venues in general and consumers that are âoffendedâ (even with the truth) have the ability to cause harm to a good manufacturer or retailer whether their comments or complaints are justified or reasonable or not but since I donât sell mattresses itâs something that I can discuss much more easily and âbluntlyâ on the forum. Itâs a reality that all âgoodâ manufacturers know and have experienced that there are some customers just canât be pleased regardless of what you try and do for them or who go ballistic when they say ânoâ to something that isnât reasonable.
Of course a good manufacturer (such as Brooklyn Bedding) or retailer will often go âabove and beyondâ to accommodate âreasonableâ requests even if itâs outside of the norm or the specifics of their policies but there are always limits to what is reasonable and there are many consumers that truly donât understand where the line is.
Phoenix
I never said âeveryone is always rightâ, I said âthe customerâ is always right. That phrase, as it is taught in first year university Marketing classes throughout the western world, is not referring to an individual. âThe customerâ is a collective. The phrase, coined at the turn of the previous century by some business big whig I fail to recall (Selfridge department store maybe?), reminds us that, as purveyors of goods, we are entirely at the mercy of âthe customerâ.
A given idiot thatâs whining and fussing and being completely unreasonable is, rather simply, not a customer. Heâs just an annoyance who, quite decidedly, is NOT a customer. Discerning between the two is the very important, and exceedingly delicate, task of the businessman.
So while it is true that âthe customer is always rightâ, it should be noted that so is the (hopefully rarely used) âwe reserve the right to refuse serviceâ.
My point? It isnât a literal statement and I by no means intended it to be literal. But⌠being loosey goosey in your definitions of who is âunreasonableâ can quickly turn south for any business. Piss off the wrong guy⌠[moral: business people have to check their big fat chips at the door, suck it up sometimes, and think half a dozen times before they let pride rule the moment]
Not that it really matters, but I am educated in both the schools of hard knocks (going on 20 years operating) as well as a fairly prestigious university (MBA Marketing, BBA Human Resource Management). I say that not to suggest âI know what Iâm talking about so listen to meâ, but rather giving you an idea of why I might be taking this rhetoric to the Nth degree ;). I believe some people would call me a blow hard (and if theyâre my customer, then theyâre absolutely correct). I take it as a compliment. But I take my customer service skills very seriously.
Hi bcsteeve,
I didnât mean âeveryoneâ either ⌠I meant âcustomerâ. I just donât buy in to the premise whether it refers to a collective or to a specific individual. I believe that right is right (as accurately as it can ever be defined because of course it depends on personal belief systems) regardless of where ârightâ comes from or where it lives and I donât believe itâs ever a good idea to compromise principles to cater to a customer that is clearly being unreasonable.
In the context I meant it a âcustomerâ is someone who either has purchased something or that genuinely wants to purchase something.
I completely agree with this and itâs always a delicate line but for me âprincipleâ rules over expedience or âaccommodationâ and in my experience (and some may call this âold fashionedâ), we are in a period of time where the pendulum has swung more towards a sense of âentitlementâ and away from a sense of âresponsibilityâ and there are many more unreasonable customers than there are businesses. Of course this is just a general statement and canât be applied to any particular person or business because all of these âprinciplesâ need to be applied on a âcase by caseâ basis and there are plenty of examples of poor judgement on both sides of the fence. I also agree that âprideâ needs to be âchecked at the doorâ but I also believe that âprinciplesâ are important whether they may appear to harm you or help you. I am one of those that believes that doing the âright thingâ (as dispassionately as itâs possible to be) based on âprincipleâ is always more important in the bigger picture and has a way of being rewarded in sometimes unexpected ways even though knowing what the âright thingâ may be or being âdispassionateâ can be difficult sometimes.
I also have many years of experience in marketing and business development and itâs even something that Iâve taught in the past in several different venues and industries and while I also donât pretend to have all the answers ⌠the points you are bringing up are something that I feel very strongly about and has been the topic of many âdeep diveâ conversations on both professional and personal levels.
Having said that we are probably drifting away from the topic of this thread (which is very easy to do when a specific situation brings up broader issues that involve strongly held beliefs or feelings :)).
Phoenix
Was looking at the same mattress. Read closely and youâll see the people who posted after a year have had significant issues with their mattresses. Wonder if the same issue applies to their toppers?
Hi winterk80,
Reading too much into reviews (either positive or negative) that donât provide enough specific information is a common mistake that many consumers make when they are choosing a mattress (or a topper) and there is more about how reviews can be particularly misleading (again either positive or negative) in post #13 here.
Every manufacturer in the industry ⌠regardless of the materials in the mattress ⌠will have some percentage of âsignificant issuesâ which can be for many reasons. Iâm not sure which specific mattress you are looking at or the specific issues you are referring to but assuming that they are about durability or sagging issues then you can read more about this in post #2 here.
Post #13 here has more about the most important parts of the âvalueâ of a mattress purchase (which would apply to toppers as well) and outside of the suitability of a mattress or topper in terms of PPP ⌠the most important part of the âvalueâ of a mattress or topper purchase is the durability of the materials which will affect how long any material will maintain its comfort and/or support. There is more about the many variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress (or a topper) relative to different types of materials and different people in post #4 here. As you can see ⌠the most important part of the durability of a mattress or topper is the quality/durability of the materials inside them (regardless of the name of the manufacturer) which in the case of polyfoam or memory foam would be the density and in the case of latex would be the type and blend of the latex.
Phoenix
Wasnât I the only one that posted after a year? The single âsignificant issueâ I had with the mattress, which was evident from Day 1, was that it was âtoo smallâ, in my opinion, vs the âstandardâ that I have come to know as âqueen sizeâ. But honestly, I wouldnât really even call it all that significant of an issue. Its a small, but notable, aesthetic issue since I can see the unfinished wood slatting at the corners and sides, which, in my opinion, I shouldnât be able to see.
My other âcomplaintâ was that its not a miracle mattress thatâs making me feel like I wish I went to latex years ago. Its still a perfectly suitable sleeping surface. And Iâm happy with the purchase despite that it doesnât have the âwowâ I had hoped.