Can't seem to balance pressure relief and spinal support--suggestions?

Mattress Talk 3) Needs & Personal Preferences
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I am every mattress salesperson’s worst nightmare: the Chidi Anagonye of mattress selectors. I’ve been searching for far longer than is reasonable, tried out over 50 mattresses in stores (not kidding), and have yet to find anything I really love. So I thought I’d check here and see if anyone has any ideas.

The basics:

  • Primarily a side sleeper; occasionally sleep on my back.
  • Move and wake a lot during the night, which I suspect is at least in part an issue of my current mattress (a $300 Brooklyn Bedding hybrid).
  • Female, 5’5" 135 lbs.
  • Looking for a queen size, adjustable base compatible.
  • At times overheat while sleeping.
  • Hypermobility (which means my joints like to slide out of place)
  • Early onset arthritis (probably due to the hypermobility)
  • Some peripheral neuropathy (which is exacerbated by any compression of nerves so pressure relief is key)

What I’ve learned about myself so far:

  • For comfort and feel, I prefer hybrid soft mattresses, usually with upper comfort layers including wool and Talalay latex. I’ve liked the feel of multiple beds that employ microcoils, though I do have some concerns on long-term durability. Examples: Hypnos Laurel 2.0, Hypnos Eurotop, King Koil Amiko Plush.
  • In all the above beds, my back starts to hurt after about 10 minutes. The mattress that has felt best for my back to date was the MagniStretch Plus, and that felt like lying on a rock. Unfortunately, lying on a bed like this results in painful pressure on my hip and shoulder—and can exacerbate nerve compression.
  • The best mattress I’ve slept on – and what I keep hoping to replicate – was a hotel mattress, and unfortunately despite several attempts I’ve been unable to get any info on its composition; all I know is the brand was King Koil, and they make a large enough range that doesn’t narrow things down. I can say I didn’t notice anything special about the mattress when I was using it—it wasn’t like lying down on a fluffy cloud or on a rock. It was…fine; I didn’t really notice it. What was much better than fine is that during the 4 nights I slept on it, I woke only 1x most nights (compared to my average of 3+ times), fell asleep easily, and had no back or joint pain.

So I now know that’s possible, and that’s set the standard I’m looking for.

  • My original budget was $1200, but I’m willing to go above that—perhaps significantly—if it makes a correspondingly significant difference in my sleep quality. Not if it doesn’t.
  • I like the feeling of sinking somewhat “in” rather than laying “on” the mattress—however, between overheating and spinal support, that can be tricky. I’m fine with sleeping “on” if it’ll give me a good night of sleep.

I was drawn to BackScience after reading about their mattresses and using their app (and discovering that indeed, on all the mattresses where my back starts hurting after 10 minutes, my spine is far from aligned). But in one post the owner compared the initial feel of the Series 2 and Series 3 to the Sleep Number i8 and i10, respectively, both at 65. So I tried those, and not enough pressure relief. I’m still considering the possibility and might chat with them to get more info, but even if it winds up being a good fit, Series 3 would be quite a stretch for my budget. If I can sleep equally well on something I can buy for less, that would be my preference.

I’m starting to wonder if it’s even possible to get the level of pressure relief that feels comfortable to me while having enough support for my wonky spine. While my research thus far suggests it’s not impossible to have a mattresses with soft comfort layers and good support, my practical experience is that I haven’t found that mix.

I’ve also considered going with a rock-hard option that keeps my back aligned (like the Magnistretch or perhaps BackScience’s Essentials), and adding a high quality wool/Talalay topper – but I wonder whether the topper, if thick enough to really provide pressure relief, will throw me out of alignment just as the softer mattresses seem to. Also a little nervous about constructing my own solution, since it may be hard for me to pinpoint which component is/isn’t working…though with a really good solution, being able to replace the topper rather than get a whole new mattress would be fantastic.

The other possibility that’s caught my eye is the European Sleepworks Nordic II. If I like microcoils and Talalay latex, might two layers of microcoils alternated with Talalay latex be the answer? But again the cost is a stretch for my budget, and I wonder about durability. Yes, there’s a 10-year warranty, but I’m going to be very upset if I invest that kind of money and find the mattress is no longer comfortable for me in 5 years. At the same time, the modular system does appeal to me and I’ve heard good things.

If I lived in CA, there are a few showrooms I’d like to go to. But I’m in central IL, which appears to be a mattress desert. Granted, I could always try the Nordic II or the BackScience (both have sleep trials, after all), but I’d prefer to go into any such trial feeling at least 90% confident that the mattress would be a good fit for me, and I’m not there yet—nor sure how I’d get there without being able to try them in person.

So figured I’d ask here: Any suggestions for next steps or points I should consider? Things I haven’t thought of? Etc?

Thanks in advance!

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Since you have tested that many, i recommend either an adjustable mattress or a DYI bed. I’d probably go the diy route. My favorite base is the texas pocket springs 15.5g quadcoil. Everyone needs a very supportive base. I really enjoy the way the springs are put together in pockets of 4 so they maintain their form.

For the encasement, you could either try theirs although it’s $350, or you could find one for 60 or less on walmart.com that’s called either “bamboo” or a full cotton encasement. The cotton stretch cover by Texas pocket springs does feel quite luxurious and cooling on the top, and the way its constructed makes it easy to open and change layers, but it is 350. Which all things considered that’s only about 750 total for queen size.

With your 8" coil, you have 4 inches to work with if you get a 12" cover. This allows you to get multiple different foams and test for what’s perfect for you.

Some people feel latex is overly responsive, and some feel memory foam is underresponsive and over conforming. My favorite foams are high density polyfoam, hybrid latex/memory foam, energex (which feels similar to hybrid) and i also do enjoy latex, as long as its buoancy is settled through the usage of a wool layer, or a layer of memory foam underneath.

With a texas pocket springs cover, you can get one that’s a touch bigger than your design height and it won’t affect the feel much and the cover fits fine.

If you’re interested in a mini spring system, their quadmini layer is the most effective on the market. It’s basically a medium firmness transition layer. It is equally responsive to your weight and supportive but also conforming.

If that interests you, pocketspringstore has the base spring, quadmini and the cover all in a kit for about 1000 for a queen size. All you’d need to do is put either a 2 or 3" layer of foam on top, usually soft latex. Dunlop will be a bit cheaper than talaylay.

Or, i just had an idea actually. I tested the duo lift topper by engineered sleep and liked it alot. You could get one of those and put it on top of your bed if you already have a good mattress thats either medium or medium/firm. It has the quadmini system with a 1" layer of wool on the top and the bottom. I like that topper alot because the quadmini has a tendency to push out sideways a bit if its not in a strong topper cover. Engineered sleep sows their topper in their fabric to hold it together solidly. If you had their topper, all youd basically need is a pr

If any of this interests you, im happy to continue explaining options.

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Hi Gene,

This is extremely helpful – thank you! I’d done a little looking on DIY systems earlier but quickly hit the overwhelm/overanalysis zone. After beginning to think I was probably going to need to spend $3,000+ to get quality sleep again, you’ve got me back to looking at DIY as a potentially viable solution. After all, it’s not magic – and being able to choose what exactly goes into the mattress may help me to make minor adjustments to get the feel I want. (So long as I can actually pinpoint which layers are causing any problems.) So thanks!

I’m going to work from the base up as I think through this, and I’d love your (or anyone’s!) thoughts:

Support layer:

I see that Texas Pocket Springs offer zoned coils - thoughts on those? For alignment, might a firmer lumbar area coil section help? Or is it difficult to get the zoning to map properly to actual body sizes/positions? (Or likely to do more harm than good at my weight?)

Also, curious about the difference in feel between microcoils (the ones I’ve tried and liked were usually about 1” tall) and the mini coils (start at 2.5”) offered by Texas Pocket Springs. Thoughts from anyone who’s experimented with both?

That’s it for tonight, will write up some thoughts/questions on comfort layers tomorrow. Thanks again!

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Pocketspringstore is the online sales front for texas pocket springs, and they dont have zoned springs listed for sale. Maybe you could call them and see if they offer that if that’s what you want. Zoning is to hold up the heavier part of your body, but with their standard quadcoil system i dont think its that necessary.

About coils - there are mini coils, micro coils, and nano coils. Mini coils are for a taller layer of support, usually 2-3 inches. Micro coils are an inch, and nano coils are very tiny.

My favorite is the quadmini by pocket spring store, its very conforming. It is also responsive to your body, but only equally responsive where latex can be over responsive. Microcoils are only an inch so they feel like an inch of foam basically. When they’re that small it’s harder to feel what they’re trying to do.

The duo lift topper is definitely what i recommend looking into. Because it uses an inch of wool on the top and bottom with the quad mini spring layer inside. But there are a few different ways to go about it.

How a bed works, is you start with a solid base, then as you go up you make it softer (depending on preference of course, i mean in general) And how the bed feels depends on how much of the total height of your bed is made up of what firmness of materials. You can always have a super plush top just as long as what’s underneath that is firm or supportive enough to hold you up from sinking in too much.

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Hello starsknight.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum :smiley:

Only the ones who don’t know anything about mattresses :wink:

Wow! Sounds like you may be a princess-and-the-pea type sleeper. Trust me, you’re not alone there, but finding a bed that you LOVE can be really hard

You’re right. You’re probably tossing and turning because your body isn’t adequately supported.

Hey same. High fives in hypermobility and dislocates a finger

The good news is that microcoils (and coils in general) are rarely the weak link in a mattress; at your weight and height I’d feel comfortable letting this particular concern go.

Do you remember exactly which hotel?

You might benefit from a DIY. Or, to your next point, something very firm with a soft/plush layer on top that helps you sink “in” while maintaining alignment. That’s actually my current setup!

The @EuropeanSleep Nordic II is an incredible bed. Are you local? Would you be able to go try it? This mattress exceeds our durability guidelines, so I wouldn’t be worried about the mattress breaking down prematurely unless you’re like…jumping on the bed or have a lot of heavy dogs that spend a lot of time on your bed.

Another option you may wish to consider (although pushing your budget) are the options from @PersonalComfort - they’re running a sale on their classic series right now. These mattresses can be adjusted literally 45 different ways depending on what you need that minute/hour/day. They have a 120 night sleep trial and financing available, if it seems like this might be a good option to explore.

In either case, I suggest sharing everything you’ve shared here with us with any of the options you consider moving forward. If they’re one of our Trusted Members, they’ll be transparent about whether or not they feel they have a bed that can meet your needs; I’d also discuss sleep trials, exchanges and returns in depth prior to purchase to make sure you’re 100% in-the-know in terms of what to expect if something isn’t quite working out.

NikkiTMU

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Thanks for your thoughts on this!

Hey same. High fives in hypermobility and dislocates a finger

Haha! Yeah, you get it. :slight_smile:

Do you remember exactly which hotel?

Legian Beach Hotel, Bali, Indonesia. (I might have put my sleep quality there down to the fact that I was, ya know, in Bali, but I didn’t sleep nearly so well during the rest of that trip–despite being under less stress and more physically active during other parts of the trip–so I’m guessing mattress was a significant factor.)

You might benefit from a DIY. Or, to your next point, something very firm with a soft/plush layer on top that helps you sink “in” while maintaining alignment. That’s actually my current setup!

That does sound like the ideal. Could you tell me a little more about your current setup? (I realize everyone is individual and what’s working for you may not work for me–but my primary issue is getting sufficient pressure relief without compromising support, and it sounds like you’ve managed that.)

The @EuropeanSleep Nordic II is an incredible bed. Are you local? Would you be able to go try it?

I wish! Alas, I’m in central IL. The durability concerns I have stem from a few Yelp reviews which note issues after 2-3 years from repeatedly sitting on the bed (most customers don’t report that, so it’s not a red flag for me–but do I sit and read/talk on the phone on my bed? Yes, yes I do). I have a few cats with elephant feet, but I doubt they’d put much stress on a mattress.

Thanks for the @PersonalComfort recommendation; I will take a look.

The idea of a sleep trial is, as you’ve guessed, appealing to me - that’s one of my concerns with a DIY; that I’ll continue to pour money into a setup that isn’t working and not wind up getting it to work well. After all, I haven’t spent years researching sleep science (nor do I want to!) so I’d be inclined to say the experts can do a better job of building a bed than I can. Then again, the overall cost of a DIY is much lower than premade, so there’s more margin for error–and no trial limits if it does take me awhile to figure out what works. Certainly something I’ll factor into the decision.

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I want to start off by saying that I really appreciate all of the time and effort you are spending to choose the right product for your needs, as well as the consideration for the Back Science mattress models. There is a lot of points and considerations that you have addressed, but there are also so quite a few questions I would have at this point before recommending which Back Science mattress or other possible customized version may best suit your particular needs. I think the best way to figure this out would be a conversation over the phone where I can gather more information that could help give me some more clarity. If that would work for you, please give us a call at 800 667-1969 and we can find a good time to go over everything.

Thanks!

Rick
Dr. Rick Swartzburg, D.C.
Founder and Head of Product Development