Casper mattress

[phoenix]

Hi tlukesherwin,

On your cut and sew point, the Casper is our own design from our own engineering lab in Providence. For factories, We actually use two different manufacturers for the foams in our mattress (although final assembly and combining of these is in Atlanta) and 3 different manufacturers for textiles (also finally assembled in Atlanta). From a consumer standpoint, and “middlemen” standpoint, the experience of this business model to end consumer is far more economic than the one with a retail middleman, simply because contractor margins are deeper in the chain than retail ones. Moreover, the big guys who use multiple foam types are also employing contract manufacturing at scale.

I completely agree that a cut and sew supply chain is generally more economical and cost effective than the supply chain that “feeds” a typical retail store although this may not be true in all cases because it depends on the specific retailer and manufacturer. For example a retail store that buys their mattresses from a local manufacturer that is close to them that in turn buys their materials directly from the foam or component manufacturers would have a similar supply chain to yours. This site also has a different frame of reference than most of the rest of the industry which is dominated by the major manufacturers (see here) because so many of the options that are mentioned here are actual mattress manufacturers that own their own factory and equipment and sell direct to consumers which would usually be a more direct and economical supply chain yet (again depending on whether they order their materials directly from a foam pourer or the manufacturer of their components or if they order from a foam fabricator or supplier). The reference points for comparison here are the “best of the industry” and aren’t the “big guys” at all which are generally considered “poor quality/value” and “avoid” options on this site.

To the buy-plain-poly-mattress-and-integrate-two-seperate-toppers on top to save money, I’m not sure I agree that this provides the same human experience. For one, you’re talking about many layers of textiles between foam layers ~10 (causing sliding between layers as pressure is applied, and a different temperature profile across the bed(multiple FR covers etc).

You’re certainly right that it wouldn’t provide the “same” experience because the designs and materials would be different (see post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one). I certainly wasn’t implying that adding a topper to a Tuft & Needle mattress would be the same mattress as the Casper … because it wouldn’t. Because of the many variables involved and the somewhat subjective nature of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) if you were to use a “target” of a theoretical ideal in terms of PPP then a mattress/topper combination could be closer or further away from their ideal depending on the specifics of each one. Any extra layers of textile between foam layers would certainly have some effect on the feel and performance of the mattress but once again the specific effect would depend on the specifics of all the materials in the “sleeping system” and how they interact together and with the body type and sleeping positions of each person. In some cases the effect of having a separate topper can be beneficial because of the independence of movement and response you are referring to (somewhat like a pillowtop that can respond more independently than the same layer inside a mattress). There is more about this in posts #3 and #4 here and in this topic. As you mentioned … each layer of the mattress would also affect the temperature profile for better or for worse depending again on the specifics (see post #2 here for more about the many variables that can affect temperature regulation).

Re quality, are you using density as your benchmark? or dunlop versus talalay?

There are many “benchmarks” for quality depending on whether you are talking about durability or about specific aspects of performance. In most cases … quality in the context that I use it most often on this site would refer to density/durability in the case of memory foam or polyfoam. In the case of latex it’s somewhat different because all latex is a durable material relative to other types of foam so in the context I used it in this post it would refer more to the cost of the latex which generally depends on the manufacturing process (Talalay is more costly than Dunlop) and on the percentage of natural or synthetic rubber used in the latex (natural is more costly than synthetic). Having said that … in the case of latex … more costly doesn’t necessarily mean more durable or “better” because even synthetic latex is a very durable material although it has different properties from say the 100% natural continuous pour Dunlop which is also made by Mountaintop which would be denser and would have a higher compression modulus and more of the other properties of natural rubber vs synthetic rubber (such as resilience) … and of course would be more costly as well.

If either of those, we have very specific engineering reasons, rather than cost based ones for those decisions. Philosophically for us, it is more about how the two layers work with each other than it is the absolute densities or ILDS of each layers. Happy to have someone more qualified than me elaborate if need be.

The point I was trying to make in this case was relative to the article I was commenting on which used “quality” very loosely and with no specific meaning. I completely agree with you for example that a lower density and less durable memory foam or a lower cost version of latex with certain specific properties may be a better choice in a specific mattress or for specific people to achieve a certain price point or a specific “feel” or design goal than a higher density memory foam or a version of latex with a higher natural rubber content that may have less desirable properties for a specific application or may put the mattress outside of the price point that is the target. As you mentioned all the layers and components of a mattress interact with every other layer and these are just part of the many tradeoffs that are involved in every mattress design. You can see what I would consider to be the most important parts of the “value” or “success” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here and suitability in terms of PPP (how well you sleep on a mattress) is always first … followed by durability (how long you will sleep well) … followed by how the mattress compares to others based on all the other parts of each person’s personal value equation that are important to them.

Phoenix