SavvyRest 7" Tranquility + topper vs. SleepEZ Natural 7000 + topper

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

In this thread I want to compare these two products as best I can. Having moved on from a memory foam mattress that was pure torture for us, we decided on a latex mattress “in theory,” found this forum, and became better educated mattress buyers. We had only two local options–SleepEssentials, which has a plain cotton cover and requires a prescription to purchase because of the lack of fire-retardancy; and Mainly Mattresses, which had recently become a dealer for SavvyRest mattresses, which have a quilted wool cover that meets fire-retardant standards without chemicals and without a prescription. So we went to Mainly Mattresses to try them out. I have to say that my first experience with a latex mattress was a revelation; the firm/firm/med Dunlop offered the perfect combination of springiness, support, and softness, and just a unique feel unlike any other type of mattress IMO. I did feel some kind of topper would add the perfect final touch.

We made a second visit to Mainly Mattresses to try out the topper idea, and tried the firm/firm/med Dunlop again with SavvyRest’s 3" Talalay topper encased in its own cotton/wool quilted cover. Heaven. I had Jay check my alignment and it was very good. When lying on my side, the soft Talalay gently filled the waist gap, and on my back it filled in my lower back area. We then tried the identical bed but with the soft Talalay layer incorporated into the bed instead of as a separate topper. I noticed a big difference but said nothing and had my DP try it. Mr. “I’m not picky” also noticed a big difference! It seemed the top layer performed quite differently when separate vs. as part of the main bed. Of course one difference is the separate topper adds two more layers of the wool quilting. In any case, although it may seem contradictory, it was like the separate topper was somehow freer to move and was able to cradle us in more softness, while at the same time it “interfered” less with the good firm support of the main mattress. In other words, when the soft top layer was incorporated into the main bed, the WHOLE bed felt softer and a little less supportive, while as a separate topper, we seemed to get more softness on the top without losing any of the support underneath. Maybe it was our imaginations, but this is exactly what I was hoping to achieve, as I truly need uncompromising support coupled with a lot of pressure relief; a hard order to fill! We definitely seemed to hit our 95% perfect goal. :slight_smile:

Unfortunately, the prices of the SavvyRest were far beyond our means. In searching for something comparable, I found SleepEZ, which offers a bed with almost identical specs but around $2k less. Having been burned once with an online mattress purchase, I was hesitant, but liked the fact that they’d been in business for nearly 40 years and were rated A+ by the BBB, plus being a member here. So we’ve ordered a bed from SavvyRest and can’t wait to get it.

I should clarify: the bed we tried in the store was a 4-layer bed (3" each, firm/firm/med/soft topper). We decided the fourth layer was unnecessary and are purchasing a 3-layer bed (3" each, firm/med/soft topper). SavvyRest also makes a 3-layer, so of course that’s the price we used for comparison. Below are the specs of the two beds, in case anyone else is interested.

Both queen-size mattresses consist of:

Main bed: Two 3" layers of Dunlop, firm/med. Layers are split but identical on each side. Cover is wool quilted to cotton. Total height of main bed is 7".

Topper: One 3" layer of 100% soft Talalay (not split) with it’s own cover, wool quilted to cotton; total height 4".

Total height of bed: 11"

Here’s a pic of the SavvyRest Serenity plus Harmony Topper: Harmony | Savvy Rest
Link for the SleepEZ 7000 (the separate topper w/ cover is not listed on the website, so no picture is available of this): https://www.sleepez.com/latex-mattress-7000.htm#

Differences between the two mattresses:
[table]
[tr]
[td][/td][td]SavvyRest[/td][td]SleepEZ[/td][tr]
[td]Main Bed[/td][td]Organic[/td][td]Natural[/td][tr]
[td]Topper[/td][td]Organic[/td][td]Organic[/td][tr]
[td]Dunlop source[/td][td]Coco Latex[/td][td]Latex Green[/td][tr]
[td]Talalay source[/td][td]Latex Intl.[/td][td]Radium[/td][tr]
[td]ILD[/td][td]N/A*[/td][td]Soft 22-24; Med 30-32; Firm 38-40[/td][tr]
[td]Price:[/td][td][/td][td][/td][tr]
[td]Main bed[/td][td]2,299[/td][td]1,195[/td][tr]
[td]Topper[/td][td]1,499[/td][td]649[/td][tr]
[td]2 latex pillows[/td][td]198[/td][td]free[/td][tr]
[td]Subtotal:[/td][td]3,996[/td][td]1,844[/td][tr]
[td]Sales tax:[/td][td]199[/td][td]none[/td][tr]
[td]5% MU discount:[/td][td]None[/td][td]-92.70[/td][tr]
[td]Grand Total:[/td][td]$4,195[/td][td]$1,751.30[/td]
[/tr][/table]
*SavvyRest does not use ILD numbers, claiming they are meaningless.

Cost difference = $2,443.70

When we receive the bed, we’ll let you know what we think.

2

Update: Mattress finalized and paid for today; shipped today. Wow.

3

Hi Sleep1,

I have to say thank you once again for another amazingly insightful and detailed post :slight_smile:

I’m particularly impressed with your description of the differences you felt between a topper and the same layer inside the mattress cover. This matches “theory” exactly (even though everyone’s perceptions don’t always agree with theory). The independent movement of a topper and it’s ability to compress with less interference and “pull in” from the sides more is the same reason that a pillowtop construction where the pillowtop has more free movement will feel softer (all other things being equal) than the same materials inside a tight top mattress. It’s also the reason that say three 1" layers that are layered on top of each other will feel slightly softer than a single 3" layer of the same material.

I’m looking forward to your feedback once you’ve received the mattress … which from the sounds of it should be very soon :slight_smile:

Phoenix

4

Phoenix (Sleepy1–I hope you don’t mind if I piggyback on your question!),

How does this type of layering, with the two 3 inch layers in the 7000, and the Talalay topper, compare to just getting the 10000 with three layers and (eventually) the topper?

I ask because I have been leaning toward the Natural 10000 since that is closest to what I tried in the Savvy Rest. I tried the Organic Serenity 10" Dunlop mattress. I described the layers in my post, but they are Dunlop medium on the bottom, Dunlop soft, Dunlop soft. The mattress was $2,299, and Diane (who was nothing but nice–I’d love to buy from her but not at twice the price) at The Eagles Rest was going to give me a 10% locals discount, so $2,069. I think I said my estimate was about $2500 in my original post, but I was factoring in the Holy Lamb Topper for an additional $375.

Moving forward:

After a little more research and reading on this website, my plan was to purchase the Sleep EZ Natural 10000 now, and then maybe, at a later date, get the Talalay Topper, since that is what I tried and loved at the store. Of course Savvy Rest’s price for their 4 inch Talalay topper is $1,500, and Sleep EZ’s 3 inch is $500 for the 100% natural Talalay. At Eagles Rest, I settled for the Holy Lamb topper–not a bad choice, still nice–and a savings of about $600 from their Talalay topper (hope I’m not confusing anyone!). Sleep EZ is obviously a better economic choice.

Would my results be similar if I order the 7000 with Dunlop medium on the bottom, Dunlop soft on the top, then the Talalay topper? I think the price for that set up would be close to the price for the 10000 by itself, no topper. Or, maybe it would even be wise to go firm on the bottom, medium in the middle and then the Talalay topper. Or should I just stick with the Sleep EZ 10000 described above and get that topper at a later date?

I have to add that I am a combination sleeper. I spend most of my time on my side, but I shift to my stomach as well, which makes mattress testing/purchasing difficult. I know I also spend a small amount of time on my back. I would love to stop shifting to my stomach, but after 44 years of life this probably isn’t going to happen. The side sleeping could be why I liked/needed the softer Dunlop medium on the bottom as opposed to a Dunlop firm for pressure points (shoulder and hip); however, I’m sure I couldn’t go all soft because of the stomach sleeping. I’m 5’2" and fluctuate (frustratingly) between 135 and 145 pounds, so I’m not huge (don’t know if that knowledge helps).

My current mattress is horrid. I wake up constantly all night long and have for months, so I need to make a decision soon. I woke up at 1:30 this morning and struggled to get back to sleep for two hours and finally gave up, made coffee and logged on here.

This is not easy!

Thanks!

Karen

5

Don’t thank me! :slight_smile: Any insight I have has been gained from this forum. Glad our perceptions about the topper weren’t totally crazy. And I certainly will update once we receive the mattress, and again when we’ve slept on it a while. The best thing you can do with useful info/experience IMO is to pass it on to others. :wink:

6

Hi Karen, I don’t mind you piggy-backing at all. I described the difference between the topper separate vs incorporated into the bed as best as I could…if there’s something more specific you want to ask I can try to answer. The rest of your questions, you’d have to get Phoenix to answer. :slight_smile:

7

Thank you, Sleepy1! I have too many questions! :silly:

8

Hi KareninKC,

I think that Sleep1’s description in the first post of the thread probably describes the effect of a topper vs the same layer inside the mattress as well as I could both in “theory” and in experience.

I would also tend to stick with what you have tested and liked unless you are clear about the effects of any change you decide to make (and the best place to discuss this would be a live conversation with the manufacturer you are considering). If you talk with them and let them know what you tried they will be able to approximate it as close as the options they have available will allow (and they would be close). In most cases … 12" of latex wouldn’t be necessary for anyone that wasn’t in say the higher 200 lb or 300 lb range. There is more about the effects of a thicker mattress and some of the reasons people may choose it in post #14 here.

After a little more research and reading on this website, my plan was to purchase the Sleep EZ Natural 10000 now, and then maybe, at a later date, get the Talalay Topper, since that is what I tried and loved at the store. Of course Savvy Rest’s price for their 4 inch Talalay topper is $1,500, and Sleep EZ’s 3 inch is $500 for the 100% natural Talalay. At Eagles Rest, I settled for the Holy Lamb topper–not a bad choice, still nice–and a savings of about $600 from their Talalay topper (hope I’m not confusing anyone!). Sleep EZ is obviously a better economic choice.

The Savvy Rest topper has 3" of latex and the rest is wool. SleepEz has a similar topper (see Sleepy1’s comment in the first post of this thread as well).

This would be different because of the different type of latex used in the top layer. Dunlop feels a little firmer in the same ILD and Talalay is a little more “lively”. A topper would also change the feel slightly vs the same layers inside the cover. Again though … I would spend some time on the phone with Shawn because you will gain much more insight into the effects of the changesyou are considering with a “live” back and forth conversation with a knowledgeable person than you will with more “theoretical” exchange on the forum. Nothing will replace or give you better information than a live conversation with the manufacturer of a mattress you are considering.

I would question the use … or the potential “risk” of two soft layers on top or your mattress (and I’m guessing Shawn would as well) particularly if you spend time on your stomach. At worst if the mattress you end up with needs a little fine tuning then it’s not difficult to add a thinner topper as fine tuning to a mattress that is already very close to your needs and preferences. A thicker softer topper added to a mattress that is close to what you need may have more alignment risk for sleeping positions other than your side.

I certainly understand this but it will be easier and you will gain more confidence with a live conversation that can go “back and forth” more easily than forum posts. :slight_smile:

Phoenix

9

I’ve always been an advocate of doing things right the first time and believe that adding a topper after the fact should not be necessary IF the mattress was configured properly. I mean if you want a 10" mattress why not buy the 10000 right?

Reading your comments about perceptoion and feel of the bagged toper versus multi layer I do see whare you are coming from. Many believe that a person cannot “feel” changes made in inches 6-9 of a mttreess, but I can.

So my thoughts on why you liked the separate topper versus a standard tall stack:

The addition of fabric between layers would have an additional spreading force rather than letting your contact points direct load. This would be a firming effect and is probably saying that the upper layers are a bit soft for you.

Looking back over the years I’ve always felt that I prefereed a pillow top mattress with lots of “loft” but not so soft. In fact I had a concept that I felt would work, but never really found a way to implement it. My concept was to introduce a thick layer of wool/felt like a snowmobile boot liner type material. This would give good support and then the compliance below would give pressure relief. It may take 2 layers one top (possibly thin) and another between layers, but I do think it would work. I think Sterans and Foster are onto something with their ultra firm model Adele as it sure feels like there is something up top that works well. It’s what lies below that is too firm for me.

Funny thing is, after testing the PLB Nutrition, and then stacking my own SleepEZ, I’ve created a setup similar to my that with my Medium over Soft Talalay setup. Layer 3 can then be medium for a softer feel or firm/ex firm for a firmer feel.

10

For the record, I’m not adding a topper after the fact, but am purchasing what I call the “main bed” and the topper together; not that there’s anything wrong with adding a topper after the fact… :wink: I certainly would have purchased the 10000 if the equivalent I tried in the store had suited me. But having the topper separate performed completely differently for both of us vs the very same layers incorporated together into one taller bed.

[quote=“TD-Max” post=13238]
The addition of fabric between layers would have an additional spreading force rather than letting your contact points direct load. This would be a firming effect and is probably saying that the upper layers are a bit soft for you.[/quote]
Hmmm, that’s interesting You’re saying that an extra layer of quilted cover would spread the weight of any body part pressing down over a greater surface area, in effect making the latex underneath feel firmer. That makes sense. However, the lower layers of the main bed (med over firm Dunlop) were NOT too soft; the support was ideal but it lacked a comfort layer. When the comfort layer of soft was added as a separate topper, we were fine. But when the soft layer was incorporated into the main bed, THAT bed felt too soft; I lost support. I should say again that my DP felt the same thing w/o me saying anything, and he is not picky or an overthinker like me. Also, on a previous visit when I laid on the soft/med/firm, I declared it too soft then as well. So I’m fairly sure the difference was real. I did think it was interesting. Thanks for your comment; I think you’re right about the fabric being a factor.

11

Hi Sleepy1,

Just being curious as a potential buyer of latex mattress. You just mentioned that the soft layer within the mattress felt softer than when it was on top as a topper. This appears to be different from the point Phoenix made that a pillowtop mattress feels softer. Is there any reason for the discrepancy.

Thanks to Sleepy1 and Phoenix.

12

Hi 57 chevy,

In one post … sleepy1 mentioned …

And in another mentioned …

Which seems contradictory…

Both versions of this fits “theory” though and are actually talking about different “versions” of softness. Softness has different “species” (“feel” softness, “pressure relief” softness and “support softness”) and different people are more or less sensitive to one or more of these. An independent top layer would act softer in terms of “pressure relief” softness because an independent top layer would have more freedom to compress without being affected by a tighter quilting and the sides of the topper could pull in more (which allows for more compression and cradling). Under this is the fabric and mattress ticking/quilting which would reduce the compression of the layers below it making them more “supportive”.

With this same layer inside the mattress … then then the top layer would be “less free” to move independently and less cradling so the “pressure relief” softness" would be less but there would be more compression into the deeper layers which many would perceive as a little less “supportive’ (support softness) and others would perceive as just softer overall (but a different “type” of softness”).

The “transition” between the layers would be less with the latex inside the mattress and there would be less “definition” between the surface softness and the support softness.

It’s tough sometimes to describe subjective perceptions or “theory” in a way that makes sense to others (especially when the same word is used to describe three different “feelings”) but hopefully this will make some sense and of course if Sleepy1 has anything to add about their own perceptions that would be great as well.

Phoenix

13

Actually, the soft layer did feel softer as a topper. But when the soft layer was incorporated into the bed, the whole bed felt softer only in the sense that I lost support…yet the topper lost some of its pressure-relief softness too. Phoenix explained it very well but I’ll take another crack at it too since a few people seem interested.

I think a key element is that as Phoenix mentioned earlier, the cover on the main bed (2, 3, or even 4 layers of latex) is fairly taut or tight. Picture this: Take an armful of polyfill (the fluffy stuffing commonly used for pillows) and lay it on a table and poke your finger through it. You can touch the table with almost no effort. Now take the same material, stuff it into a regular cotton pillow case and lay that on a table; it will take a bit more effort to touch the table. Now take a zippered pillow case, pack the stuffing in there pretty good and zip it up. It will take quite a bit more force to push your finger through it; in fact, you might not be able to do it. There are probably several things going in this example: the surface tension of the fabric, plus the polyfill being compressed by the fabric around it, making it somewhat firmer, plus the polyfill being confined by the case so it has “nowhere to go” when you press your finger into it. So on this theory…the surface tension of the tight cover would have a “firming” effect on the main mattress. Of course it would depend greatly on the type of fabric in the cover: a thin jersey stretch-knit might have little effect; a thick heavy fabric quite a bit more.

The cover on the separate topper is much looser than the cover on the main bed; think about it, if you put a tight cover on a single latex layer, it would curl up! The loose cover allows the latex to flex and move freely; it can move away from you and also “reach up” and cradle you. Like the polyfill stuffed loosely into the open-ended pillowcase, it can still move away from your finger. (Gah, I’m becoming a bed geek!) So, going back to my bed, :wink: I believe that’s why the separate topper was much softer. In fact, I believe I was able to blow right through it to the med/firm Dunlop, which had the great support. This was good for me, because the med Dunlop wasn’t uncomfortably firm, it just lacked the pillow-top cuddly aspect. Now what happened when that same soft layer was incorporated into the main bed under the tight cover? A couple things: The topper got a bit firmer because it was in a tight cover, which was bad because I lost the cradling comfort. This also meant I wasn’t able to “blow through it” to the firmer layer below (I seriously doubt I sunk in 4" (3" talalay + 1" cover) in any part of that bed) which was bad because I lost the good support of those layers. In effect, the soft layer became my support layer and it wasn’t firm enough for that, and also lost some of its ability to function as a comfort layer. Hence the apparent paradox. :huh:

I don’t know what effect the extra layer of cover (1" wool quilted to cotton) on the bottom of the topper had on the whole system, but I guess whatever it was, it worked for me. :slight_smile:

I think the bottom line is that a 2-layer latex bed + 3rd layer as a separate topper is likely to function quite differently than when the same 3 layers are incorporated into one bed within the same cover. So that might be something to consider when you’re trying out beds.

14

Many thanks to Phoenix and Sleepy1 in describing the different softness “species”. It is quite amazing all the variables that effect a mattress. It makes looking for a new one even more daunting. I think we will go mainly by “feel” while thinking about comfort and support as our main guide and use some of the knowledge we have learned to help support what we actually feel. We’re hoping to find that “wow” and we’ll let you know if we get there.

On another note I started a topic on talalay gl and if you have any knowledge concerning the slow response gl and its comparison with regular latex, fast response latex and memory foam I would appreciate it. I like the feel of memory foam but am trying to stay away from the possible toxic effects. Thanks.

15

Hi 57chevy,

That’s certainly the best way to test mattresses. Let the body tell you what it feels (and make sure you spend at least 15 minutes fully relaxed on any serious candidate) but let the mind translate it into the more objective terms of pressure relief and alignment.

I linked to a few posts about the Talalay GL slow response in the other thread.

Phoenix

16

Well try not to see it as daunting, but as an opportunity to either search for or “build” your ideal sleeping surface!

If I’ve learned anything from this forum, it’s that alignment comes first. And that can be hard to “feel” in the few minutes you’re trying out a mattress in the store. Our “nightmare” memory foam mattress felt heavenly for the first 20 minutes or so…it wasn’t until the middle of the night that the lack of alignment reared its ugly head. Maybe if we’d had a chance to try that mattress in the store and I’d had the sense to have DP check my alignment, we’d have avoided that mistake. For this last purchase I had DP pull my shirt all the way up in the back and check the alignment of my spine. Embarrassing, but IMO necessary. :ohmy:

I know nothing of gl MF (or anything else for that matter) but we definitely had a reaction to the MF off-gassing, though we detected no strong smell at all. I’m pretty leary of it now, but that’s just me. :slight_smile:

DP brought up what I thought was an excellent point today: Memory foam (or slow response foam) was of course first developed for astronauts to solve a specific problem–to cushion the body from G forces during flight–and this happens during a relatively short period of time. The body is thrown back very hard and fast, so of course slow-response shock absorption is best, as a more springy, fast-response material would result in the body being bounced forward just as hard. MF fits the bill well for that. But is it really good for sleeping all night? My personal feeling is that when coupled with proper support underneath, MF can be an excellent comfort layer, but I’d only consider it again IF they could figure out a way to make it without all the petrochemicals. JMO FWIW

Good luck!

17

Hi Sleepy1,

You’re DP’s point is very insightful and is one of the reasons that so many small manufacturers that are more accountable to their local customer base are suspicious of memory foam as well. The slow response of memory foam and its ability to absorb energy (such as projectiles shot at it as well) is called hysteresis and is the opposite of resilience (bounceback). Of course as you mention in the “right” combinations and for the “right” people it can be a very good material as a comfort layer (not as a support material) and many people love it but for many it’s certainly not the panacea that some people would have you believe :slight_smile:

Phoenix

18

Our mattress is coming tomorrow! Just one week after we ordered it. Not bad. It feels like the night before Christmas…or maybe better. Four months now without a good night’s sleep–3 months on our “memory foam nightmare” and now 1 month on a lumpy, bumpy, saggy sofabed. :frowning: So, yeah, better than Christmas.

Although the mattress we bought (SleepEZ) was “very very similar” to the one we tried in the store (SavvyRest), of course there could be some differences. BUT because we purchased a bed consisting of split layers in zip-up covers, we have many combinations to try if we do need to fine-tune. And we’re fully prepared to exchange a layer or two if necessary–the cost for this is quite reasonable (so much better than dealing with some sleazy mattress store and “warranties” that never seem to cover anything). Right now, I’m about 80% confident that the mattress will be wonderful as-is; and if it isn’t, I’m 99% confident we’ll be able to make it so because we now have the knowledge to make any needed adjustments–including where to go to ask for advice. :wink:
And sitting here tonight, pre-delivery, that’s a pretty good place to be. :slight_smile:

:kiss:

19

Hi Sleepy1,

I can kinda “feel” your excitement “popping” through the screen!

Congratulations on your new mattress as well :slight_smile:

Now that it’s about to arrive you only have to wait one more day/night before you actually get to sleep on it … and I’m looking forward to your report about what Santa brought you :slight_smile:

Phoenix

20

The bed arrived this afternoon, right on time.

The rolled, compressed latex layers sprung to full size instantly. They had a very slight sweetish rubbery smell that wasn’t in any way strong or unpleasant. Arranging the layers and getting them zipped up in the cover took around 15 minutes. The Talalay topper came already encased in its separate cover. The organic cotton/wool quilted cover is EASILY as nice as the SavvyRest cover. The organic cotton is wonderfully soft and the wool quilting is quite thick (maybe a bit thicker than the SavvyRest), puffy, springy, soft…Such a nice feel and so beautiful it’s a pity to put sheets over it. The free latex pillows were the solid latex kind–not the shredded–they appeared rather flat compared with a polyfill pillow, but actually felt just the right height. They had a bit of a sharp odor, but it dissipated quickly. Everything seems top quality.

As soon as the bed was assembled but without any sheets or bedding, I laid down on my back–my usual falling-asleep position. The soft but springy surface filled every curve–my lower back, behind my knees, even the area between my heels and calves. My whole body felt evenly and gently supported, yet with an incredible softness too. In fact, as I lay there, I realized I felt the same “weightlessness” as with the memory foam mattress, only without that “sinking into wet concrete” feeling. I have never experienced this feeling with any other mattress. The latex pillow continued the perfect support and I’m loving that as well. I flipped onto my side; latex moves with you, springing up and kind of helping you turn over. Very responsive, almost “alive.” Equally comfortable on my side, even with my very broad shoulders. Turned onto my back again and then…I fell asleep. Woke up 45 minutes later a bit cold without any covers, in the same position. I don’t think I moved a muscle.

I will say, the main bed (two layers of Dunlop) when zipped up, is not as “tight” in its cover as the SavvyRest was. Either this, or simply the fact that the latex comes from a different source, the whole bed does feel a bit softer than the equivalent SavvyRest. Whether that will be a problem, a few night’s sleep will tell. But so far so good.

I tell you folks, if you haven’t experienced an all-latex mattress, you should at least try it. I’m incredibly frugal (DP says “cheap”) and a month ago would have taken an oath I’d never, ever spend $1700 on a mattress. But once I tried it I just had to have it. Simple as that. Right now it feels like the best money I ever spent and I can’t wait to go to bed tonight. :slight_smile: