The answer is: the encasement is 1.5 lb 44IFD poly foam. Making the construction (might be off a fraction here or there) 4" 4lb gel foam on 1" encasement foam on 8" power core springs on 1" encasement foam. Overall thoughts? Iām guessing ideally that encasement foam should be a higher density? Iāve got time to delay or cancel, but Iāll need to tell either way them soon.
Thanks for challenging me to check everything out, thatās why I come here!
Hi mg517,
Those are the specs you need ā¦ I think 
My only caution is that you listed a single layer of memory foam and the description says it has 3 progressive layers of memory foam so the 4 lb density may not apply to all of them.
The 4 lb memory foam is medium density/quality and can work well for someone that isnāt in a heavier than average weight range. The 1.5 lb polyfoam (the 44 is a firmness rating which is very firm) is a little on the low density side and I would prefer 1.8 lb and higher because of the greater durability. Once again it would probably be OK as long as you arenāt in a heavier weight range or donāt spend too much time sitting on the edge or your mattress. You can see some of my thoughts about edge support for an innerspring in post #2 here.
The āvalueā of a mattress purchase depends on how it compares to your other āfinal choicesā and what else is available to you in your area but as a point of reference for a mainstream mattress the Serta iSeries Jubilance has many similarities (4" of memory foam over a pocket coil with a foam surround) except the top 2" of memory foam are slightly higher density (5 lb). Of course it may also have a completely different āfeelā that may or may not be suitable for you in terms of PPP because of differences between the springs and the properties of the different types of memory foam so quality comparisons are only part of the picture and comparisons based on PPP are just as important.
Phoenix
Except for a very pricey Vi Spring, itās my favorite thing in NYC, and Iāve been everywhere.
I think, based on the sample I handled (the picture is above), the foam is assembled in two 1 inch slabs over one 2 inch for 4" total. The factory said 4 lbs, and they all felt the same when I handled it. Their latex beds are layered in increasing densities, that I know.
Pros: itās made & sold locally, the covering is much nicer than the Serta, and Iāve been able to test it before inviting it home. Value wise, it compares well to similar products. The springs are unique and hopefully wonderful. Within 90 days I can return or exchange.
As Iām pretty light, I think the foam density is probably not a major issue.
I think I feel confident enough to proceed, so Iāll be getting it delivered tomorrow. With any luck, my years of non sleep can finally come to an end!
Thanks again!
E
Hi mg517,
If youāve tested the mattress carefully and objectively for PPP using the testing guidelines, you are confident that the quality/durability of the materials are āgood enoughā for you based on knowing the specifics of the materials inside the mattress, and that out of your finalists the Cool Ultra is the best choice for you based on the criteria of your personal value equation that are most important to you, then I would say you are making a good choice that is āwell informedā and of course thatās the main goal of the site.
So congratulations on your new mattress
Iām looking forward to your feedback once youāve had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.
Phoenix
Dear Phoenix,
I just joined this panel as I am close to making a decision on a mattress purchase. Their are far too many numbers for me and i donāt intend to become an expert, I am just seeking expert advice. The first place I looked was in Consumer Reports. I have trusted them all of my shopping life. They had some very nice things to say about a mattress I had never heard of. I am an Arizona girl and just moved to Rutherford, New Jersey. Just across the bridge from Manhattan and the mattress, The Charles P. Rogers St. Regis is sold from a factory showroom in Manhattan. This mattress according to Consumer Reports was the coolest and most durable, but some side sleepers might prefer one a bit softer.
I want to keep this short. The St.Regis pillow top is a very comfortable mattress. I would have no difficulty sleeping on it. However, they have another line called Powercore Estate, or Estate Powercore, that is unlike anything I have felt in shopping more than ten NYC stores. If a mattress can replicate weightlessness, this does it. The salesman showed me how this is because they make their own springs to their own design and figured out how to make a mattress core that senses the weight and the shape of the sleeper. Sounds like more mattress sales talk, but not when you lie down I had read some posts here from recent purchasers who seemed quite happy but something you wrote makes me question the accuracy of what is being said.
You state that Charles P. Rogers does not make their own mattresses. You may have been given inaccurate information. The truth of the matter is that I took them up on their invitation to visit the factory It is minutes from my home and I have never been in one before. I saw them making mattress after mattress, apparently each one to order. One of the upholsterers told me that his family has worked for them since 1930 and one of daughters will soon start, Apparently they have been making beds since before the Civil War.
They do not make their own foams. I saw them unloading trailers full. And they had also had huge bales of white cotton that looked like they came off a Mississippi old sidewheeler. What I did see was a fascinating production line that uncoils wire from hugh wooden spools at one end, and lines of pocketed coils come out the other end. The machine operator said that these two machines were the only ones made so far, but they are running non stop and may add more. Watching them make bolts of cloth, baskets full of cotton, and thick pieces of what I was told is naturally pure latex, maybe a few thousand yards of thread to quilt and sew it together, and another mattress is made. Their foreman told me that only a tiny number of competitors are so integrated as a large company, Leggett and Platt supplies most of the innards for most mattress assemblers. He wanted to make clear the fact that he is making mattresses basically from scratch and most of what i see out there is assembled from virtually the same parts bin and that is why most mattresses are more the same than different. He did say that Simmons Beautyrest makes good pocketed coils and that some of their machines might be almost a hundred years old. They canāt make anything as conformable as the Powercore and their labor costs must be ten times as high, but the finished product can be very good. One of the other workers told me that he used to work for many years in Shifman Brothers, a few miles away, also in NJ and that they make very good mattresses but still use the same type of spring with the coils tied together that they have used for over half a century.
I am digressing. I think that you should set your readers straight because there is so much love of yours evident in what you do, you would not like to be called out for not telling things the way they are.
I wish you the best in your work and will continue reading until I finally can make a decision. I think I will settle on the Rogers, but I have heard about Duxiana from some people at work and as they have two NYC stores, I can check them out first. I really like the 90 day comfort guarantee at Rogers, but I shop until I drop. I will keep reading and maybe contributing. Thanks Again. Polly;
I am posting the below from the Charles P. Rogers Website. It is from a button at the bottom of the specs and contains a public invitation to their new factory. If you live nearby, you should take it. I found it very educational.
More Powercoreā¢ Information closeClose
Estateā¢ Latex Mattress
Why are these mattresses different and unique?
Because our care, experience and quality will help you realize your true sleep potential.
Simply put, the way we put our top quality materials together makes a better mattress.
The innovative designs and our investment in specialty equipment provides an ability to do things other manufacturers canāt easily duplicate.
You get the best materials available. If we canāt find something good enough, we create it ourselves.
You can buy with confidence. Estateā¢ Latex mattresses are made at our East Rutherford, NJ factory. Our quality control is 100%.
Every mattress is carefully built and thoroughly checked by proud people who truly care.
Powercoreā¢ Spring Mattress Units
The exclusive Powercoreā¢ Mattress Unit is the secret behind achieving a new level of comfort and true relaxation.
This is a new, better spring system. The individual spring design and placement, attachment, proper insulation between rows of coils and careful control of finished sizing make for a super durable and unusually comfortable spring unit.
A Powercoreā¢ Unit would provide a good nights sleep without an ounce of additional padding, but of course we add progressive layers of premium quality Talalay latex.
Designed for use with latex foam, all coils that make up a Powercoreā¢ unit are proprietary winds of ultra- high tensile strength extremely flexible steel wire.
Our wireās tensile strength is 20% more than wire used by the leading U.S. mass manufacturer. The coils are pre-loaded for strength and compressed into individual technical fabric pockets.
To provide better reaction and response to body pressure points throughout the unit, the coils feature more turns, more wire and more flexibility than any previous design.
The assembly and attachment of the springs into a complete innerspring unit is done by a CNC computer controlled robotic agglomerating machine.
The very specifics of our Powercore Plusā¢ unit are trade secrets (coil designs, assembly techniques etc.) that required us to develop our own machinery to keep this knowledge āin houseā.
[color=#ff0000][sup][sub]We welcome visitors, with appointments, on a tour of our East Rutherford factory where these are made to see the machines and craftsmen in operation.[/color[/sub][/sup]]
Talalay Latex Comfort Padding
The comfort padding are layers of pure, American made Talalay latex.
The Talalay latex process creates a more consistant padding material than latex using the Dunlop method.
Latex foam is naturally cool, non-toxic, anti-bacterial and allergen resistant.
Latex is a resilient support material and less prone to body impressions than petroleum based foams.
The border is built right into our mattress with a carefully fashioned foam encasement.
These arrangement are done to create mattresses with a traditionally firm, yet responsive feel.
Underneath the upholstery, our Powercoreā¢ Unit unobtrusively provides instant adjustment and progressive support for the user without external controls.
Environmental Facts
Absolutely no solvents are used in the construction and assembly of our Estateā¢ Latex mattresses.
The steel for the innersprings is mostly post-industrial recycled and is 100% recyclable.
Our mattresses are Fire Retardant, designed and tested to meet CSPC standard 1633 without any use of chemical treatments,
All foams used are US or Canadian made and meet very strict manufacturing standards for HAP and VOC emissions.
Our foams are made without the use of PBDE, CFCās, mercury, lead or prohibited phthalates or other harmful substances.
While no mattress is completely emissions free, ours should be as low as any in the marketplace.
Customers can check foam manufacturer websites such as Carpenter (http://www.carpenter.com/), Hickory (http://www.hickorysprings.com/2008/Foam.html) and Latex International (http://www.latexfoam.com/) for more foam specific information.[/size][/size]
Hi Math,
Itās somewhat co-incidental that you are mentioning them now because I just got off the phone with them a few minutes ago (after trying to confirm some information for several weeks) and unfortunately I confirmed that they donāt disclose the quality/density of the polyfoam or memory foam in their mattresses which means that there is no way to know with any certainty whether there are any weak links in their mattresses or make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. This is really unfortunate and is somewhat unusual for smaller independent manufacturers who normally want to educate their customers about the quality of the materials in their mattresses and help them make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses because they know that consumers that understand the importance of this type of information will recognize that their mattresses are higher quality and better value choices than their mainstream competitors. Having said that ā¦ some of the earlier posts in this topic seem to indicate that they provided foam density information to some of the members here so perhaps they will do this if you are there in person.
As you can see in the information in the mattress shopping tutorial (which is the first place I would start your research) ā¦ I personally wouldnāt consider any mattress where I wasnāt able to confirm the quality of the materials inside it (see this article and the guidelines here).
You can see my thoughts about the Consumer Reports and and their mattress recommendations in post #2 here. This is one area where they have completely dropped the ball.
They made their own mattresses when they started and for many years and then a few years ago they started to contract them out to another manufacturer (I confirmed this at the time) and they are now back to making their own again in their own factory. Iāve added ā¦
ā¦to the forum posts that indicated that they werenāt making their own to bring them up to date. Like almost all mattress manufacturers (with very few exceptions) they donāt make their own foams. A forum search on Charles P Rogers will also bring up more information and feedback about them (and the posts that were edited).
Once you reach step 3 in the tutorial and are ready to start testing mattresses ā¦ then the better options and possibilities Iām aware of in the Northern New Jersey area are listed in post #7 here (including comments about Charles P Rogers).
I also wouldnāt get too caught up in numbers either since it can become very confusing and lead to information overwhelm and often āparalysis by analysisā. While itās always important to know the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress (post #13 here has more about the important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase) ā¦ the simplest āshortcutā in mattress shopping is to focus on dealing with smaller independent manufacturers that are knowledgeable, experienced, and completely transparent about the materials in their mattresses and either sell factory direct or through better sleep shops. Working with a manufacturer/retailer that puts your legitimate best interests above their own and already knows what you would otherwise need to learn can be one of the most important parts of a successful and āeasyā purchase.
Phoenix
PS: I deleted one of your posts which was a duplicate.
I have had a Charles P Rogers Day Bed for about 10 years. Last year, I ordered a new mattress because the old one was beginning to feel lumpy. I was disappointed to find that the new one was still lumpy, and sloped in towards the middle. The mattress is extremely lumpy (it feels hard and sharp in some areas) and it continues to slope in towards the middle, making it uneven. The mattress is extremely uncomfortable. I absolutely would not recommend for anyone to ever purchase a Charles P Roger mattress. I wish I had taken my appx $400 anywhere else.
Hi CVS1991,
Iām sorry to hear about your experience.
While it would be fairly common for a mattress in your budget range to be uncomfortable because there may not be a lot of padding over the springs or even to develop some soft spots or sagging because it may not use high quality materials ā¦ it also sounds like you could have an issue with the support system under the mattress which could be the cause of your sag or the reason your mattress is sloping towards the middle.
It would be worthwhile trying your mattress on the floor to see if there are still issues with the sloping and if there is still an issue I would also talk to Charles P. Rogers about a warranty claim because your mattress may be defective.
Phoenix
I have a concern based on the label of a bed I just bought from CP ROGERS.
I visited the east Rutherford factory in May and bought a St Charles that I loved āit felt absolutely perfect. I was told they make the mattresses there.
However, I just assembled the bed, and in reading the tag, it clearly states the mattress was made in China for CP Rogers, with a Chinese factory address and date of manufacture (it clearly says 2014, I canāt figure out the code for the month or day.)
I feel deceived, and call them. I have gotten 3 different stories from various people there, but the head of customer service told me that the mattress was made in NJ, they put the wrong label on it. I find that hard to believe. I have asked them to show me documents that prove that my mattress was made in the US. Based on the response from the Manager, I am not sure they have the documentation or they may choose not share it.
During the course of the conversation, I was told they stopped making mattresses in China 8 months ago. But later I was told they have the additional factories for reasons related to business continuity, and that the head of the company spends most of his time there, which leads me to believe they still use that factory.
I am not sure I would recommend this company to anyone, no matter now great their mattresses are. They have poor customer service and misleading information. I am not interested in a mattress made in China, there are too many good companies still making them in the US.
I am curious to hear your thoughts on this.
Hi sunshine13,
You can see my comments and the results of my conversations with them in post #27 here earlier in this topic.
If I was in your shoes I would ask them to exchange your mattress for one with the ārightā law tag that clearly indicated that the mattress was made in the USA. If they werenāt able to provide this I would ask for a refund.
Phoenix
I would like to update this thread based on a discussion today with the head of the company. It may help others who are looking at mattresses that are on the NJ showroom floor, make an informed decision when considering to purchase there.
Only the power core mattresses are currently made at the NJ factory, they donāt have the equipment/tooling to make the others. The other mattresses are made in China or the Phillippines to CP Rogers specifications.
Hi sunshine13,
Thanks for sharing the results of your research and conversation with the forum ā¦ I appreciate it
Phoenix
Is there anyone still using a Charles P Rogers mattress? Iām looking for a mattress for my 2nd bedroom and was recently recommended this mattress to be used with this platform bed, but Iām kind of weary about blindly purchasing a mattress and bed online without guarantee of a full refund if it doesnāt work out for me.
Phoenix, do you have anything to add in regards to this company (it seems they previously had transparency issues regarding the material?) What are your thoughts on innerspring mattresses in general? It seems you tend to recommend foam more than innerspring, though I could be wrong there.
Hi TemporaryCatatonic,
I donāt have any personal experience on their mattresses so I canāt comment about how they feel for me or someone else or how suitable they may be in terms of PPP (and hopefully some of the members here that own one of their mattresses will see you post and share their feedback) but you can see some of my comments and some feedback about Charles P Rogers in general in this topic (which is the one we are posting in) and in this topic. A forum search on Charles P Rogers (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.
I consider the type of materials and components in a mattress to be a preference issue and there are many people who do very well with an innerspring mattress that uses high quality materials over the innerspring. There is more about the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase in post #13 here but while I donāt recommend specific materials or components or make suggestions about any other preference issue ā¦ what I do recommend is that no matter what type of mattress you tend to prefer that it uses good quality and durable materials and that there are no obvious weak links in the mattress (see post #4 here).
I also donāt recommend any specific mattresses (polyfoam or innerspring or latex or memory foam or otherwise) because there are too many unknowns and variables involved to make a specific mattress recommendation for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or ātheory at a distanceā. Your own careful testing for PPP (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) will be the most reliable way to decide whether a mattress is a good āmatchā for you but if you canāt test a mattress in person then a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced manufacturer or retailer that is more familiar with āmatchingā their own mattresses to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences based on the āaveragesā of other customers that are similar to you would be a much more reliable source of guidance about making the most suitable choice (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). If you arenāt confident about the suitability of your choice then the return or exchange options that are available would also become a more important part of the āvalueā of your purchase.
Charles P Rogers makes their own springs for their Powercore mattresses but the others are made in China to their specifications (NOTE: this is apparently no longer be the case ā¦ see post #53 here). An innerspring isnāt usually the weakest link of a mattress and some of their mattresses use latex comfort layers which is a high quality and durable material so I would certainly consider any of their mattresses that had latex comfort layers and didnāt have more than about an inch or so of either polyfoam or memory foam where you didnāt know the density of the layer. If you can find out the density of any memory foam or polyfoam in their mattresses (if there is more than about an inch or so) and they are inside the foam density guidelines I would suggest then I would certainly consider these as well.
While they would likely be a better quality/value choice than most of the mainstream mattresses that most people end up purchasing ā¦ once there is about 2" or more of either lower quality or āunknownā quality materials in the upper layers of a mattress then there would be a potential weak link in the mattress and any purchase where you donāt know the quality of the materials and components in all the layers (especially the upper layers) would be a much higher risk purchase with a much higher chance of buyers remorse much too quickly after a purchase regardless of the name of the manufacturer. They told me that they donāt provide foam density information to their customers but some of the comments in the previous topics I listed seem to indicate that they may provide them if you are in the store.
If in fact they donāt provide the information listed here to their customers ā¦ I donāt think they are doing themselves any favors by not providing the information that their customers need to make a more informed choice and to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses ā¦ especially if they really are using higher quality/density materials than most of their mainstream competitors.
Phoenix
Phoenix,
Thanks for the detailed reply as always.
You have a good point about them not providing the material information to customers - itās odd that they wouldnāt disclose that info if they are in fact using high quality materials. The gentleman that recommended this particular mattress & bed combo seems to like Charles P Rogers in general and I found it odd that he recommended that particular company when there are sure to be more options in the Orange County area where I live. He also didnāt seem particularly fond of this site or foam mattresses in general so I wasnāt sure what to make of that.
Anyway, I found this post by you regarding mattress retailers in the LA area so Iāll take a look at them and see if thereās something that might work for me.
Thanks!
Hi catatonic (why do you even need a bed? :lol: )
I have the St Charles Mattress. I posted the earlier threads about lack of information from the salesperson. However, I will say that having slept on this bed for several months now, my husband and I LOVE this mattress. It is solid and so comfortable, if you like a firm mattress. I cannot feel my husband getting in or out of bed.
So, we are happy with the purchase despite the lack of forthcoming info during the purchase/delivery process.
*** ADMIN NOTE: This reply was originally a reply to post #35 here but was split into a new topic of its own. ***
Hi TemporaryCatatonic,
I have read most of the information on the Old Bed Guy site and while he does make āsomeā good points and provide āsomeā good information ā¦ there is also a lot of misinformation and contradictions on the site as well and it can be difficult to differentiate the good information from the information there that is much less reliable. As to his comments about The Mattress Underground (such as here among others on the site as well)ā¦ itās clear to me that he has never taken the time to read much of the information here and has a completely inaccurate and distorted view of what this site is all about. I wrote a reply to one of his articles and linked to some of the more specific information here (some of which ironically enough agrees with some of what he says) so he would have a more accurate idea of the type of information that was provided here and be able to make more accurate and less deceptive comments but he never took the time to reply.
Strangely enough ā¦ I just noticed that since I wrote the reply he did edit some of the comments he had made previously but the new comments are just as misleading and inaccurate as they were before. Very odd.
Some of the more knowledgeable people I know in the industry that have read his site and shared their comments with me believe that either he has lost his ability to think or write clearly or has some agenda that is more interested in his own personal self promotion than providing truthful and accurate information to his readers. He also appears to be stuck in a ātime warpā and doesnāt appear to have kept up to date about new ideas, materials, or components in the industry and he clearly āthinksā he knows a lot more than he really does. Some of his comments about some very good manufacturers in the industry (and about this site as well) are nonsensical. He could certainly do much better IMO.
Iāve also added the content of the two communications Iāve had with him at the end of this post after my signature. One which was a reply to his blog article about the site which he never published or replied to and the other was an email which he never replied to either.
Somewhat arrogantly ā¦ he also considers his site to be one of only two reliable sources of information and the āother oneā is Consumer Reports which is also widely considered in the more knowledgeable parts of the industry to be an unreliable source of mattress information as well and you can see my comments about them in post #2 here and in this topic.
In their latest report that was released this year they ātestedā only 58 mattresses out of many thousands in the industry that included some of the worst quality/value and least transparent manufacturers in the industry and for the most part ignored the many thousands of mattresses that are better quality/value made by dozens of smaller independent manufacturers across the country that are completely transparent and will tell you everything you need to know about the quality of the materials in their mattresses. They also didnāt seem to realize or understand that a mattress that is suitable for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on so their ārecommendationsā and āratingsā are so subjective that they do much more harm than good by encouraging consumers to believe that their recommendation is all that they need to find a suitable and good quality/value mattress. They also donāt provide any specific information about how to assess the quality of the materials inside a mattress, much of the information in their buying guide is incomplete and misleading at best and harmful at worst, and in essence they do more to perpetuate the āstatus quoā of the industry than anything else. Strangely enough ā¦ they even consider latex to be a variation of memory foam ā¦
While their āintentionsā may have been good ā¦ because of their lack of knowledge about mattresses, mattress materials, and how to choose a mattress, they completely dropped the ball and their execution was awful.
Itās unfortunate that some of the so called āexpertā sites and sources that are so common in the industry and on the internet are so full of misinformation that they can often end up doing more harm than good (see post #12 here) and end up perpetuating the problems in the industry rather than being part of their solution.
ADDED: I have since learned that the Old Bed Guy used to own Klein Sleep which was a large mattress retailer in New York that went bankrupt in the early 1990ās and was bought out by Sleepyās (see āSurviving the Early 1990sā here). Unfortunately they didnāt pay the suppliers that were owed money so the bankruptcy also ended up putting a small Restonic factory out of business as well. He would have been at retirement age at the time which probably explains why some of the information on his site is so dated.
Even worse though ā¦ he is the father of the president of Charles P Rogers which explains his āagendaā and the reason that he promotes them so heavily on his site. Outside of the other misinformation and contradictions on his site and his attacks on this site (and others as well) and on some good manufacturers in the industry ā¦ not disclosing this family connection is incredibly deceptive to say the least.
Phoenix
Reply to the Old Bed Guy blog post on Oct 22nd, 2014 which was never published or replied to:
Hi Marshall,
Good article with some good points ā¦ but your comments about The Mattress Underground make me wonder if you have ever spent any time on the site. As you can see in posts like thishttps://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/where-to-get-clay-like-hard-long-lasting-memory-foam ā¦ we share similar thoughts about the so called āvalueā of mattress reviews so I find some of your comments somewhat ironic. Not only that ā¦ some of the thoughts you also share about a mattress being a blind purchase and purchasing from a good factory direct manufacturer with generations of experience we also have in common. One of the biggest goals of my site is to help teach consumers how to make informed choices based on factual information so that they donāt have to make a āblindā purchase. We also share similar thoughts about manufacturers and retailers that have no history or presence in the āreal worldā.
I would encourage you to spend some time on the site to see what is really being said and the type of guidance that is being offered. A good place to start to get a better sense of the type of information that is there would be the mattress shopping tutorial https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-look-for-and-find-the-best-mattress-for-you-read-first . There also isnāt a single paid review or any advertising anywhere on the site and there isnāt even a review section on the site.
You may be surprised at what you find if you really take the time to read some of the information there.
I donāt expect you to post this but if you do feel free to remove the links. They were more for your benefit and I just wanted you to see them because based on some of the content you have written you seem to be an honest person that is genuinely interested in presenting factual information and I thought you would appreciate being able to read about some of the goals and objectives of the site so you could represent what it was ā¦ and wasnāt ā¦ a little more accurately
Phoenix
Email sent on Jan 18th, 2015 to which I also received no reply (email or phone call)
Subject: Your Blog Comments about The Mattress Underground
Hello āMarshall Coyleā,
I replied to your blog post about my site some time ago but I never received a reply from you and when I looked today I saw a reply to your blog from The Organic Bedroom (Joey Ashley) that was such a blatant lie and so hypocritical that I thought I would email you directly. Itās rare that something I read on the internet upsets me but this was so far over the line of anything ethical or accurate that I have to admit that it did.
Itās true that Joey was a member of my forum and posted frequently for a short while but he decided to take a more confrontational and inflammatory approach, was trying to promote his store on the forum (where there is no advertising or self promotion by businesses allowed), and was engaging in personal attacks which are all against the rules of the forum. After many warnings and after continuing to do the same repeatedly I finally had to ban him from the forum (one of only 7 people that I have had to ban over a period of 4 years), much to the relief of many forum members that emailed me to thank me for removing him and commenting on my patience and how long I let him continue. While I did talk with him on the phone for an hour or so (as I have done and continue to do with many hundreds of retailers and manufacturers across the country as part of my ongoing research to find out more about them) ā¦ he was never invited to become a member of my site and this is the lie that prompted this email to you. Ironically ā¦ his store was (and still is) listed as one of the better options or possibilities in the Raleigh/Durham area as you can see here (I kept his listing even after he was banned because I thought it was the right thing to do) and he has made sales because of his forum listing on my site and yet he is still angry because he was banned from the forum and somehow feels that itās OK to lie as part of some kind of ego based personal vendetta. If you are interested you can see his posts by clicking here. You can also see my replies to him by clicking here or you can read the complete topics and all the posts in order in each topic to see their context by clicking on any of the search results I linked.
After he was banned he re-registered with several fake IDās and tried to continue posting or posing as fake customers that were āpraisingā The Organic Bedroom but these fake registrations were also banned (the forum software I use flags duplicate IP addresses). He has also āchanged his tuneā somewhat as you can see from these quotes from two of his posts (and others if you read his posts) ā¦
[b]OK here is a comment from the one who give Phoenix a rough time and who he threatens to kick off every few days
He is not a crook. He really doesnt have a hidden agenda, I have spoken with him and the way I would describe him is he is a mattress nerd. My guess is he has some sort of engineering background and has gone a bit crazy in his evaluations and although I adamantly disagree with some of the stuff he says and on other areas I think he just doesnt get the entangables, I will defend him in the fact that he is passionate about what he is doing and he has good intentions and has helped many people out (although I certainly do not agree with everything he says).
phoenix and I had a conversation of about an hour the other night we agree on 90% of things the part I dont agree on is buying a mattress online. Its something regardless of what it is made of you need to lay on feel itā¦ for you who has had such a bad experiance it is wort a trip to visit someone and I would say yes even if you had to hop on a plane. Where you spend 1/3 of your life should not be decided on price or online it makes no sense. You are welcome to google my company the organic bedroom and call me if you need any advice. However Phoenix and I do agree on a lot of other items however this is just one of them we do not and never will. Price should not be the factor when deciding where you spend a 1/3 of your life. Makes no sense what so ever. Would you buy your house online never actually visiting it? And on the other item if there was a shop in town and it was a couple of hundred bucks more its worth it as that shop will be there when you need them in the future. Best of luck on your search. [/b]
It was also disconcerting to see your reply which unfortunately ābuys intoā everything that he is saying without even checking to see if itās accurate or truthful and is also completely off the mark. If you believe (as you seem to) that the primary motivation of my site is money it would probably shock you to find out who I have turned down as members and they include some of the largest retailers in the industry that would dwarf the current membership list combined in terms of their sales. It may also surprise you to find out some of the history behind the site, why I started it, how it really works, and how and why I invite the retailers and manufacturers that I do. The forum also includes hundreds of local lists that include several thousand retailers or manufacturers from all across the country that include the better local options or possibilities in every area of the country. The vast majority of these (over 95%) arenāt members of the site. The large majority of the mattresses that people purchase as a result of the information on my site are purchased from these retailers or manufacturers that arenāt members and for which I receive no referrals because I point to value or potential value wherever I see it regardless of their membership. Like you ā¦ I also donāt make specific recommendations for any specific mattresses or companies.
Needless to say ā¦ most of what you are writing about me and my site and how it works is completely inaccurate and if you really have the ethics that you portray on your site and if in spite of what you have written you have the courage to find out the truth about what I believe, the reasons that I started the site, what I stand for, what I know (or donāt) about the industry, and the type of advice I provide, it would make sense to find out the facts about what you are writing. You may also be surprised at the similarities between what we believe.
I invite you to talk to me on the phone if you really want to find out whether what you are writing is accurate or truthful and at the same time I would be interested to know why you have decided to pursue a vendetta of your own against someone who you know very little about and who probably shares many (although probably not all) of your thoughts and opinions about the industry.
My phone number is (xxx) xxx-xxxx (number removed) if you are interested in talking to find out āthe rest of the storyā.
Phoenix
Just wanted to provide some Charles P Rogers feedback. While I do not have experience with their mattresses, I now own one of their beds. And let me just say that the quality is absolutely top notch. We are talking hierloom-worthy. This is just an incredibly solid / massive piece of furniture without cheap fillers. Solid mahogany throughout, with the possible exception of the headboard panel which is veneered (and I obviously canāt see inside it). The attention to deal in this bed is apparent. The crating and packaging went above and beyond. Everything arrived with nary a scratch nor flaw. Just very impressive all the way around.
FYI !
Hiā¦ I appreciate all the helpful information on your site! i called Charles Rogers with some questions about the Powercose mattresses and was really disappointed with the rep I spoke with. He was very impatient and .could or would not answer in any detail. He did offer that the foam is from Capital Foam around the corner in Rutherford, NJ (so it is NOT from Hickory or Carpenter as advertised on their website and also noted by The Old Bed Guy). That lack of disclosure bothers meā¦ I also asked him to explain the difference between the Powercore foundation at $400 and the $200 St Regis one (other than aesthetics) and said Iād like to purchase the less expensive one as it would be covered by the bed frame and bedskirt. He said they wouldnāt sell the cheaper one to me. Unless there is something functional or more heavy duty about the Powercore foundation at double the price, I would be paying $200 for cosmetic reasons. Iām not sure I will purchase there now. I am considering a Restopedic as I had a very nice conversation with the owner, who was happy to answer my questions. They donāt have pocketed coils, however, so I want to take some time to visit them and test their beds,
Hi buddercup,
Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback about Charles P. Rogers ā¦ I appreciate it.
Just for the sake of clarity ā¦ Capitol Foam is a foam fabricator and not a foam manufacturer so they could be getting their foam from any of the many foam manufacturers in the US (including Carpenter or Hickory) and then they would be the ones that then cut it to size. I should also mention that there are many foam manufacturers in the US that make very high quality foams besides Carpenter and Hickory and for anyone to suggest that there are only two is both misleading and inaccurate.
Itās possible that the St Regis foundation isnāt suitable for their Powercore mattresses for some reason or wouldnāt meet their warranty criteria for that specific mattress but they should at least be able to explain the difference between them and why they wouldnāt sell you the lower cost foundation because you are asking a legitimate question.
Iām not sure which mattress you were looking at but if you do decide to include them as an option then I would make sure that you are able to find out the specifics of all the materials and layers inside the mattress you are considering so you can confirm that there arenāt any lower quality materials or āweak linksā in the mattress.
I would also keep in mind that if you arenāt local to them and canāt test a mattress in person then the exchange and/or return policy and any costs involved may become a more important part of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase just in case the choice you make doesnāt turn out to be as good a āmatchā for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) as you hoped for. There is more about the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses.
There is one pocket coil mattress listed on their site (the Dream Dimensions) but the rest are either offset coils or foam mattresses (latex or memory foam). You can see some comments about Restopedic in this topic and this topic and this topic and a forum search on Restopedic (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as wellā¦ They tend to use higher quality materials than most of their competitors in similar budget ranges and they certainly make some very high quality/value mattresses and most importantly of all they are transparent about the type and quality of the materials and components they use in their mattresses.
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You may have seen this already but just in case you havenāt ā¦ some of the other options or possibilities that may also be well worth considering if you are in the Connecticut area (subject to the quality/value guidelines I linked earlier) are listed in post #2 here.
Iām looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding and of course any comments or questions you may have along the way.
Phoenix