Thanks for the detailed reply as always.
You have a good point about them not providing the material information to customers - itās odd that they wouldnāt disclose that info if they are in fact using high quality materials. The gentleman that recommended this particular mattress & bed combo seems to like Charles P Rogers in general and I found it odd that he recommended that particular company when there are sure to be more options in the Orange County area where I live. He also didnāt seem particularly fond of this site or foam mattresses in general so I wasnāt sure what to make of that.
Anyway, I found this post by you regarding mattress retailers in the LA area so Iāll take a look at them and see if thereās something that might work for me.
Thanks!
I have the St Charles Mattress. I posted the earlier threads about lack of information from the salesperson. However, I will say that having slept on this bed for several months now, my husband and I LOVE this mattress. It is solid and so comfortable, if you like a firm mattress. I cannot feel my husband getting in or out of bed.
So, we are happy with the purchase despite the lack of forthcoming info during the purchase/delivery process.
*** ADMIN NOTE: This reply was originally a reply to post #35 here but was split into a new topic of its own. ***
Hi TemporaryCatatonic,
I have read most of the information on the Old Bed Guy site and while he does make āsomeā good points and provide āsomeā good information ā¦ there is also a lot of misinformation and contradictions on the site as well and it can be difficult to differentiate the good information from the information there that is much less reliable. As to his comments about The Mattress Underground (such as here among others on the site as well)ā¦ itās clear to me that he has never taken the time to read much of the information here and has a completely inaccurate and distorted view of what this site is all about. I wrote a reply to one of his articles and linked to some of the more specific information here (some of which ironically enough agrees with some of what he says) so he would have a more accurate idea of the type of information that was provided here and be able to make more accurate and less deceptive comments but he never took the time to reply.
Strangely enough ā¦ I just noticed that since I wrote the reply he did edit some of the comments he had made previously but the new comments are just as misleading and inaccurate as they were before. Very odd.
Some of the more knowledgeable people I know in the industry that have read his site and shared their comments with me believe that either he has lost his ability to think or write clearly or has some agenda that is more interested in his own personal self promotion than providing truthful and accurate information to his readers. He also appears to be stuck in a ātime warpā and doesnāt appear to have kept up to date about new ideas, materials, or components in the industry and he clearly āthinksā he knows a lot more than he really does. Some of his comments about some very good manufacturers in the industry (and about this site as well) are nonsensical. He could certainly do much better IMO.
Iāve also added the content of the two communications Iāve had with him at the end of this post after my signature. One which was a reply to his blog article about the site which he never published or replied to and the other was an email which he never replied to either.
Somewhat arrogantly ā¦ he also considers his site to be one of only two reliable sources of information and the āother oneā is Consumer Reports which is also widely considered in the more knowledgeable parts of the industry to be an unreliable source of mattress information as well and you can see my comments about them in post #2 here and in this topic.
In their latest report that was released this year they ātestedā only 58 mattresses out of many thousands in the industry that included some of the worst quality/value and least transparent manufacturers in the industry and for the most part ignored the many thousands of mattresses that are better quality/value made by dozens of smaller independent manufacturers across the country that are completely transparent and will tell you everything you need to know about the quality of the materials in their mattresses. They also didnāt seem to realize or understand that a mattress that is suitable for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on so their ārecommendationsā and āratingsā are so subjective that they do much more harm than good by encouraging consumers to believe that their recommendation is all that they need to find a suitable and good quality/value mattress. They also donāt provide any specific information about how to assess the quality of the materials inside a mattress, much of the information in their buying guide is incomplete and misleading at best and harmful at worst, and in essence they do more to perpetuate the āstatus quoā of the industry than anything else. Strangely enough ā¦ they even consider latex to be a variation of memory foam ā¦
While their āintentionsā may have been good ā¦ because of their lack of knowledge about mattresses, mattress materials, and how to choose a mattress, they completely dropped the ball and their execution was awful.
Itās unfortunate that some of the so called āexpertā sites and sources that are so common in the industry and on the internet are so full of misinformation that they can often end up doing more harm than good (see post #12 here) and end up perpetuating the problems in the industry rather than being part of their solution.
ADDED: I have since learned that the Old Bed Guy used to own Klein Sleep which was a large mattress retailer in New York that went bankrupt in the early 1990ās and was bought out by Sleepyās (see āSurviving the Early 1990sā here). Unfortunately they didnāt pay the suppliers that were owed money so the bankruptcy also ended up putting a small Restonic factory out of business as well. He would have been at retirement age at the time which probably explains why some of the information on his site is so dated.
Even worse though ā¦ he is the father of the president of Charles P Rogers which explains his āagendaā and the reason that he promotes them so heavily on his site. Outside of the other misinformation and contradictions on his site and his attacks on this site (and others as well) and on some good manufacturers in the industry ā¦ not disclosing this family connection is incredibly deceptive to say the least.
Phoenix
Reply to the Old Bed Guy blog post on Oct 22nd, 2014 which was never published or replied to:
Hi Marshall,
Good article with some good points ā¦ but your comments about The Mattress Underground make me wonder if you have ever spent any time on the site. As you can see in posts like thishttps://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/where-to-get-clay-like-hard-long-lasting-memory-foam ā¦ we share similar thoughts about the so called āvalueā of mattress reviews so I find some of your comments somewhat ironic. Not only that ā¦ some of the thoughts you also share about a mattress being a blind purchase and purchasing from a good factory direct manufacturer with generations of experience we also have in common. One of the biggest goals of my site is to help teach consumers how to make informed choices based on factual information so that they donāt have to make a āblindā purchase. We also share similar thoughts about manufacturers and retailers that have no history or presence in the āreal worldā.
I would encourage you to spend some time on the site to see what is really being said and the type of guidance that is being offered. A good place to start to get a better sense of the type of information that is there would be the mattress shopping tutorial https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/how-to-look-for-and-find-the-best-mattress-for-you-read-first . There also isnāt a single paid review or any advertising anywhere on the site and there isnāt even a review section on the site.
You may be surprised at what you find if you really take the time to read some of the information there.
I donāt expect you to post this but if you do feel free to remove the links. They were more for your benefit and I just wanted you to see them because based on some of the content you have written you seem to be an honest person that is genuinely interested in presenting factual information and I thought you would appreciate being able to read about some of the goals and objectives of the site so you could represent what it was ā¦ and wasnāt ā¦ a little more accurately
Phoenix
Email sent on Jan 18th, 2015 to which I also received no reply (email or phone call)
Subject: Your Blog Comments about The Mattress Underground
Hello āMarshall Coyleā,
I replied to your blog post about my site some time ago but I never received a reply from you and when I looked today I saw a reply to your blog from The Organic Bedroom (Joey Ashley) that was such a blatant lie and so hypocritical that I thought I would email you directly. Itās rare that something I read on the internet upsets me but this was so far over the line of anything ethical or accurate that I have to admit that it did.
Itās true that Joey was a member of my forum and posted frequently for a short while but he decided to take a more confrontational and inflammatory approach, was trying to promote his store on the forum (where there is no advertising or self promotion by businesses allowed), and was engaging in personal attacks which are all against the rules of the forum. After many warnings and after continuing to do the same repeatedly I finally had to ban him from the forum (one of only 7 people that I have had to ban over a period of 4 years), much to the relief of many forum members that emailed me to thank me for removing him and commenting on my patience and how long I let him continue. While I did talk with him on the phone for an hour or so (as I have done and continue to do with many hundreds of retailers and manufacturers across the country as part of my ongoing research to find out more about them) ā¦ he was never invited to become a member of my site and this is the lie that prompted this email to you. Ironically ā¦ his store was (and still is) listed as one of the better options or possibilities in the Raleigh/Durham area as you can see here (I kept his listing even after he was banned because I thought it was the right thing to do) and he has made sales because of his forum listing on my site and yet he is still angry because he was banned from the forum and somehow feels that itās OK to lie as part of some kind of ego based personal vendetta. If you are interested you can see his posts by clicking here. You can also see my replies to him by clicking here or you can read the complete topics and all the posts in order in each topic to see their context by clicking on any of the search results I linked.
After he was banned he re-registered with several fake IDās and tried to continue posting or posing as fake customers that were āpraisingā The Organic Bedroom but these fake registrations were also banned (the forum software I use flags duplicate IP addresses). He has also āchanged his tuneā somewhat as you can see from these quotes from two of his posts (and others if you read his posts) ā¦
[b]OK here is a comment from the one who give Phoenix a rough time and who he threatens to kick off every few days
He is not a crook. He really doesnt have a hidden agenda, I have spoken with him and the way I would describe him is he is a mattress nerd. My guess is he has some sort of engineering background and has gone a bit crazy in his evaluations and although I adamantly disagree with some of the stuff he says and on other areas I think he just doesnt get the entangables, I will defend him in the fact that he is passionate about what he is doing and he has good intentions and has helped many people out (although I certainly do not agree with everything he says).
phoenix and I had a conversation of about an hour the other night we agree on 90% of things the part I dont agree on is buying a mattress online. Its something regardless of what it is made of you need to lay on feel itā¦ for you who has had such a bad experiance it is wort a trip to visit someone and I would say yes even if you had to hop on a plane. Where you spend 1/3 of your life should not be decided on price or online it makes no sense. You are welcome to google my company the organic bedroom and call me if you need any advice. However Phoenix and I do agree on a lot of other items however this is just one of them we do not and never will. Price should not be the factor when deciding where you spend a 1/3 of your life. Makes no sense what so ever. Would you buy your house online never actually visiting it? And on the other item if there was a shop in town and it was a couple of hundred bucks more its worth it as that shop will be there when you need them in the future. Best of luck on your search. [/b]
It was also disconcerting to see your reply which unfortunately ābuys intoā everything that he is saying without even checking to see if itās accurate or truthful and is also completely off the mark. If you believe (as you seem to) that the primary motivation of my site is money it would probably shock you to find out who I have turned down as members and they include some of the largest retailers in the industry that would dwarf the current membership list combined in terms of their sales. It may also surprise you to find out some of the history behind the site, why I started it, how it really works, and how and why I invite the retailers and manufacturers that I do. The forum also includes hundreds of local lists that include several thousand retailers or manufacturers from all across the country that include the better local options or possibilities in every area of the country. The vast majority of these (over 95%) arenāt members of the site. The large majority of the mattresses that people purchase as a result of the information on my site are purchased from these retailers or manufacturers that arenāt members and for which I receive no referrals because I point to value or potential value wherever I see it regardless of their membership. Like you ā¦ I also donāt make specific recommendations for any specific mattresses or companies.
Needless to say ā¦ most of what you are writing about me and my site and how it works is completely inaccurate and if you really have the ethics that you portray on your site and if in spite of what you have written you have the courage to find out the truth about what I believe, the reasons that I started the site, what I stand for, what I know (or donāt) about the industry, and the type of advice I provide, it would make sense to find out the facts about what you are writing. You may also be surprised at the similarities between what we believe.
I invite you to talk to me on the phone if you really want to find out whether what you are writing is accurate or truthful and at the same time I would be interested to know why you have decided to pursue a vendetta of your own against someone who you know very little about and who probably shares many (although probably not all) of your thoughts and opinions about the industry.
My phone number is (xxx) xxx-xxxx (number removed) if you are interested in talking to find out āthe rest of the storyā.
Just wanted to provide some Charles P Rogers feedback. While I do not have experience with their mattresses, I now own one of their beds. And let me just say that the quality is absolutely top notch. We are talking hierloom-worthy. This is just an incredibly solid / massive piece of furniture without cheap fillers. Solid mahogany throughout, with the possible exception of the headboard panel which is veneered (and I obviously canāt see inside it). The attention to deal in this bed is apparent. The crating and packaging went above and beyond. Everything arrived with nary a scratch nor flaw. Just very impressive all the way around.
Hiā¦ I appreciate all the helpful information on your site! i called Charles Rogers with some questions about the Powercose mattresses and was really disappointed with the rep I spoke with. He was very impatient and .could or would not answer in any detail. He did offer that the foam is from Capital Foam around the corner in Rutherford, NJ (so it is NOT from Hickory or Carpenter as advertised on their website and also noted by The Old Bed Guy). That lack of disclosure bothers meā¦ I also asked him to explain the difference between the Powercore foundation at $400 and the $200 St Regis one (other than aesthetics) and said Iād like to purchase the less expensive one as it would be covered by the bed frame and bedskirt. He said they wouldnāt sell the cheaper one to me. Unless there is something functional or more heavy duty about the Powercore foundation at double the price, I would be paying $200 for cosmetic reasons. Iām not sure I will purchase there now. I am considering a Restopedic as I had a very nice conversation with the owner, who was happy to answer my questions. They donāt have pocketed coils, however, so I want to take some time to visit them and test their beds,
Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback about Charles P. Rogers ā¦ I appreciate it.
Just for the sake of clarity ā¦ Capitol Foam is a foam fabricator and not a foam manufacturer so they could be getting their foam from any of the many foam manufacturers in the US (including Carpenter or Hickory) and then they would be the ones that then cut it to size. I should also mention that there are many foam manufacturers in the US that make very high quality foams besides Carpenter and Hickory and for anyone to suggest that there are only two is both misleading and inaccurate.
Itās possible that the St Regis foundation isnāt suitable for their Powercore mattresses for some reason or wouldnāt meet their warranty criteria for that specific mattress but they should at least be able to explain the difference between them and why they wouldnāt sell you the lower cost foundation because you are asking a legitimate question.
Iām not sure which mattress you were looking at but if you do decide to include them as an option then I would make sure that you are able to find out the specifics of all the materials and layers inside the mattress you are considering so you can confirm that there arenāt any lower quality materials or āweak linksā in the mattress.
I would also keep in mind that if you arenāt local to them and canāt test a mattress in person then the exchange and/or return policy and any costs involved may become a more important part of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase just in case the choice you make doesnāt turn out to be as good a āmatchā for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) as you hoped for. There is more about the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses.
There is one pocket coil mattress listed on their site (the Dream Dimensions) but the rest are either offset coils or foam mattresses (latex or memory foam). You can see some comments about Restopedic in this topic and this topic and this topic and a forum search on Restopedic (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as wellā¦ They tend to use higher quality materials than most of their competitors in similar budget ranges and they certainly make some very high quality/value mattresses and most importantly of all they are transparent about the type and quality of the materials and components they use in their mattresses.
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You may have seen this already but just in case you havenāt ā¦ some of the other options or possibilities that may also be well worth considering if you are in the Connecticut area (subject to the quality/value guidelines I linked earlier) are listed in post #2 here.
Iām looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding and of course any comments or questions you may have along the way.
I just wanted to weigh as someone who owns a Charles P Rogers mattress and is very happy with my purchase. I got the Powercore Estate mattress and foundation (queen size), and my partner and I often remark how itās the best mattress weāve ever slept on. (Iām in my 40s and heās in his 50s, so weāve spent many nights on many mattresses.) Iām donāt have the technical knowledge that most of the posters have, but in laypersonās terms: itās the right combo of firm core with a plush top for me. I canāt feel my partner when he rolls over or moves. Itās the right temperature (e.g. I donāt wake up sweaty). And I feel like it was an excellent price for the quality I paid. I also liked supporting a smaller, US-based company.
I bought the mattress before a move to CA when I was living in NYC ā so I did have the opportunity to visit the showroom and try out the mattresses in person. I was hesitant to get their most expensive mattress, as Iām a little skeptical of the whole mattress-buying experience. But I felt like the materials used justified the higher price. And Iām really glad with my choice. Weāve been sleeping on the mattress since June 2014, so almost a year.
I also bought a St Regis twin and trundle for my 9-year-old step daughter. She loves her bed, and adult relatives who have come to stay with us have said itās very comfortable. We also bought two beds from CPR: the leather wingback bed for us and a white/brass twin and trundle for our daughter. Other than a slight delay with the deliveries (to California), weāve been very, very happy with our purchase. Iād recommend the Powercore Estate to anyone (which is why Iām taking the time to write this post.) And I had an all-around good consumer experience with Charles P Rogers.
Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and feedback about your Powercore Estate ā¦ I appreciate it
It certainly sounds like you made a great choice in terms of suitability and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences).
[quote] I feel like it was an excellent price for the quality I paid.
But I felt like the materials used justified the higher price. And Iām really glad with my choice. Weāve been sleeping on the mattress since June 2014, so almost a year.[/quote]
Did you happen to find out the type and/or quality/density of all the materials and components in your mattress? If you did it would be great if you could post them on the forum. Since you canāt feel the quality of the materials in a mattress (lower quality and higher quality materials can feel the same when the mattress is relatively new) ā¦ the only way to know the quality/durability of a mattress would be by knowing the specs of the materials inside it (see this article).
The latex in your mattress and the pocket coils are certainly high quality and durable materials and the 25mm (about 1") of quilting material isnāt thick enough to be a weak link in the mattress but a mattress is only as durable as its weakest link so if you were able to confirm that there arenāt any other materials in the mattress (other than the ones I mentioned) then it would certainly be fair to call it a high quality choice. If there are any other materials in the mattress other than what I listed then the quality/durability of the mattress would depend on what they were.
My husband and I live in Toronto and are considering having a Charles P Rogers Estate Powercore 9000 shipped here. Even with the exchange rate, shipping and duty, itās a good price compared to the local premium mattress, made by Marshall. One of the reasons Iām interested in CPR is the natural materials used (although I canāt locate where I first found this information), and the generally positive reviews Iāve read in various places. I donāt want to deal with off-gassing and excessive chemicals in the place where I spend so much time.!
I did see that you endorse organic bed maker Dormio which is located in Toronto. But there site is hard to navigate, and the only legitimate reviews I can find are mixed. Iām concerned that the bed will disappoint after a few months. Iām considering going and testing their beds, but quite frankly I donāt trust sales people to answer questions about things like longevity truthfully (or even confidently).
I guess my questions are:
Why do you support Dormio? What is it about their beds that you like?
Do you have negative feedback about CPR? I know they are also less than ideal in terms of detail, but in their case I feel like Iāve read enough reviews that I have a better sense of what Iām getting
How do you know that people commenting on your site arenāt planted by the manufacturer/company?
I guess Iām feeling skeptical today! Anyway, I do appreciate all the excellent information on your siteā¦ Hoping it can help me find the right bed that will last for at least 10 years.
While Marshall makes some good quality mattresses ā¦ Iām not so sure they would be a good reference or point of comparison for the āvalueā of a mattress purchase and you certainly have many other options available to you besides Marshall.
There is also more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, āchemical freeā, and āgreenā mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer āhow safe is safe enough for meā so you can decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable having in your mattress. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.
While I do recommend the members here āas a groupā, I donāt make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or materials because only you can feel what you feel on a mattress or decide on the types of mattresses and materials that you are most interested in trying or that you tend to prefer and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to know which specific mattress design or combination of materials would be best for you based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here). What is ābestā for you either in terms of a mattress or a manufacturer/retailer can be very different from what would be ābestā for someone else.
I can certainly help you narrow down your options by helping you know how and why to avoid the worst ones and with āhowā to choose or act as a fact check or answer specific questions you may have along the way but not with which specific mattress, company, or manufacturer to choose.
The most effective approach would be to follow all the steps in the mattress shopping tutorial which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that you will need to make the best possible choice ā¦ and know how and why to avoid the worst ones ā¦ and if you follow the steps one at a time you will have the best chance of success.
The reason that the members here have been invited to become members is because I have come to know them well enough to believe that they share the goals, values of this site and they are among the retailers and manufacturers that compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. Of course there are many other retailers/manufacturers that would also be well worth considering that arenāt members of the site (at least yet). There is more about how I choose the members here in post #2 here and in post #5 here and the site has grown from its original membership list of about half a dozen retailers/manufacturers when it began to currently over 40 members and of course the membership list will continue to grow over time as I identify new members that meet the criteria and show an interest in becoming members here as well.
Two of the more important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure youāve read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to buy a suitable mattress that is the best āmatchā for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability, durability, and value.
The tutorial also includes this link to a list of some of the better online options Iām aware of that ship across Canada and the better options and possibilities Iām aware of in the Toronto / GTA region (subject to the quality/value guidelines I linked) are listed in post #1 here.
You can read more about Charles P Rogers in post #34 here earlier in this topic (and the rest of the topic we are posting in) and in this topic and this topic as well and a forum search on Charles P Rogers (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. There are also some comments about the Powercore Estate 9000 in posts #3 and #4 here that may be helpful.
I would also be very cautious about using other peopleās reviews or experiences on a mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how suitable a mattress may be for you or the durability of a mattress and in many cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else either in terms of suitability and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or in terms of durability (see post #13 here). Reviews about the knowledge or service at a particular store can certainly be helpful but when it comes to the specifics of a mattress they wonāt provide you with the type of reliable information you will need to make an informed choice about how well you will sleep on a mattress, how long you will sleep well, or the āvalueā of a mattress purchase compared to all the other options that are available to you either in your area or online.
Outside of PPP ā¦ a mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer so if you can find out and list the specifics of any of the CPR mattresses you are considering (see this article) then I can certainly make some comments about the quality of the materials or help you identify whether there are any weak links in the design.
As you probably know (or at least will come to realize from the previous links in this reply) ā¦ the only way you can know for certain whether any mattress will be suitable for you in terms of PPP and whether you will sleep well on it will be based on your own testing or personal experience so I would make sure that you are comfortable with any return and/or exchange options that you have with any online purchase (and the costs involved) just in case your choice doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for because there is little value in purchasing a mattress that you donāt sleep well on regardless of the quality of the materials or the price of the mattress.
I think that in most cases itās self evident based on their previous history and questions on the site prior to their āreviewā (and itās not that difficult to recognize a pattern of āplantedā reviews which are so common on many sites) but as I mentioned earlier in this reply I wouldnāt pay all that much attention to other peopleās experiences or reviews about any particular mattress anyway because they will likely have little relevance to your own specific needs and preferences and reading reviews (here or anywhere) is very different from the type of research that I would suggest in the first place. I would rely more on your own careful testing and experience and more factual information and analysis and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you to make your choices rather than the more subjective opinions of others that canāt be validated or isnāt relevant to you.
If a mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP and also meets the quality/durability guidelines in post #4 here then it would certainly be reasonable to expect that it will last you for 10 years or depending on the quality and durability of the materials ā¦ in some cases even longer.
Good luck in your search and Iām looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding ā¦ and of course any additional comments or questions you may have along the way
Phoenix, Thanks for your detailed reply. Iām going to spend some time this weekend combing through all of the posts and links that you suggest and Iāll let you know what we end up deciding!
I would be very cautious about using other peopleās experiences or reviews on a mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you and in many cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (see post #13 here).
I am also interested in the Powercore estate mattress line. I called and asked about the beds and learned the coils used are 1 gauge thinner (13 gauge) but have more twists than normal and are tightly packed. The latex layer in the 5000 model is 2" of 32 ILD Talalay, the 7000 adds a 1" layer of 24 ILD Talalay, and the 9000 adds another 1"" of 24 ILD gel infused Talalay for 4 inches of latex totalā¦
Since I am not in a position to try out these mattresses, I hoping that the 7000 with the 1 inch of software latex will take the edge off the āback sleeper best buyā model 5000. I sleep on back and side, and am concerned that the 9000 with 2 inches of softer latex might cause a 200 lb guy like me to sink in too far at the hips (>1.5 inches) Any thoughts on if this is enough latex over the mattress coils to indicate a quality build?
The thickness of the foam on top of the coils has little to nothing to do with the quality or durability of the mattress ā¦ only whether it would be a suitable āmatchā for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). There are no lower quality materials or āweak linksā in any of the mattresses you are considering.
In very general terms side sleepers tend to need a thicker/softer comfort layer than back sleepers and stomach sleepers tend to need the thinnest comfort layers of all but these are only very generic guidelines and when it gets down to the specifics that would work well for any particular person then only your own testing or personal experience can tell you whether any mattress is a suitable āmatchā for your body type and sleeping style.
You are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components would be the best āmatchā for you in terms of PPP or how a mattress will āfeelā based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or ātheory at a distanceā that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing or personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).
When you canāt test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help ātalk you throughā the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best āmatchā for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, and the āaveragesā of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about āmatchingā their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or even to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.
An online choice is always a higher risk purchase because you wonāt know whether itās a good match for you in terms of PPP until you sleep on it. There is also more about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the most suitable āmatchā for your specific needs and preferences and that can help with how to identify and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesnāt turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them in post #2 here.
When you are making an online purchase that you havenāt tried in person then the options you have after a purchase to exchange or return the mattress or make changes in individual layers to fine tune the comfort and support of the mattress (and the costs involved) is the most effective way to reduce the risks involved and for most people would become a much more important part of the āvalueā of your purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options they provide after a purchase ājust in caseā.
I would also keep in mind that you can always add additional softness and pressure relief to a mattress by adding a topper but itās much more difficult to firm up a mattress that is too soft because this would normally require removing and replacing the layers or components in the mattress that are either too thick or too soft.
The tutorial post includes several links to some of the better online options Iām aware of (in the optional online step) and if you let me know your city or zip code Iād also be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities Iām aware of that are close to you as well.
After much research, I just bought a Charles P. Rogers St. Regis and the tag indicates it was made in the USA along with the manufacturing date (10/28/2015).
Itās good to see that they are manufacturing their St Regis mattresses in the US now. Even earlier this year they were still being made in China or the Phillipines.
Did you happen to find out the information listed here about the type and quality of the materials and components in the mattress? If you did (and knowing the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress is one of the most important parts of the āvalueā of a mattress purchase) it would be great if you could post the specs on the forum since there have been some forum members that have considered the St Regis over the years (and some that have purchased it) but none of them were able to confirm whether there were any lower quality materials or āweak linksā in the mattress that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.
Charles P Rogers completely failed us. After reading the consumer reports review, and many others online, my wife and I ordered a nano 2 from Charles P Rogers at over $2,800, and a set of sheets to go with the new mattress. We even agreed to pay the extra $140 shipping fee. After a month had passed we were contacted by a shipper in Billings, MT, over 300 miles from my house. He informed me the mattress was damaged and he was concerned I would not accept it. He sent me photos which I forwarded to CPR. CPR offered me a mattress cover If I would accept the damaged item, which we refused. Next they said they would have a new mattress shipped within the next 3 weeks. Needless to say after a month we never saw a mattress or the sheets. At this point, we have paid interest on a credit card for a product we never received, and a week after canceling our order we are still waiting for a refund. Stay away from charles p rogers and buy locally.
Iām sorry to hear about your experiences with Charles P Rogers but I appreciate that you took the time to share them on the forum.
While your experience would be somewhat uncommon ā¦ that certainly wouldnāt make it any less frustrating and I hope you have the chance to let us know once youāve received your refund.
