Charles P. Rogers

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
62

Hi Linker314,

According to their warranty in the second year (which is when the prorating begins) you should be paying 10% of the cost of your mattress for a replacement which means that you should be receiving 90% of the cost of your mattress as a credit.

I would definitely call them because it seems more likely that the amount they quoted you would be the amount you would be paying (excluding transportation or delivery charges) rather than the amount of your credit.

Phoenix

63

An update from Charles P. Rogers:

“I am just following up as per my prior email in regards to your Biltmore Queen Mattress. As stated you are covered under our pro-rated warranty and we will replace your mattress at a prorated charge. It seems I have misinformed you regarding your credit, and I do apologize. Since you only used your mattress for 1 year and 2 months, you will receive a credit of $728.19 to use towards your replacement mattress.”

This is one hell of a change from the $195.00 they offered last week.

64

Hi Linker314,

Thanks for the update … I appreciate it.

It certainly looked like the person that answered your original email made a mistake and reversed the 10% reduction off the full price as your credit instead of the 90% of the original price that would apply in your second year of ownership.

I’m glad to hear that you followed up with them and that they corrected their mistake.

Phoenix

65

Like many folks here, I have spent weeks/months looking for a replacement mattress and everyone out there says they are ‘top rated’ it seems. In any case, there also are several out there who claim to be ‘mattress experts’ and I’ve read what they had to say. Increasingly I observe that the mattress industry seems to be dog eat dog with a lot of brand bashing. I did check with Charles P Rogers since Consumer Reports rated them so well, and they immediately got back to me with schematics of all the content and layers of their mattress models that I inquired about. There are some Youtube videos with more information too. I further asked if the president of their company was the daughter of the “Old Bed Guy”, who also seems to be the target of disdain on this forum. I was told that his daughter is not president of Charles P Rogers. It is little wonder that we poor consumers find the process of simply trying to find a qualify comfortable sleep surface to be more difficult than trying to find a spouse or a needle in a haystack. Just some observations from someone relatively new to the mattress market since last time I bought one was 14 years ago.

66

Hi LindaKD,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Yes, it can be a frustrating process when shopping for a mattress, which is part of the reason for the creation of this site, helping provide people the tools to objectively assess the componentry within any mattress, regardless of brand.

That is wonderful that you were able to get complete specifications. If you’ve done even a little searching here on the site, you’ll see that getting exact specifications has been an issue for some site members (most recently in this thread, but the member was able to eventually get some good information :slight_smile: ). I’m not aware of any youtube videos that provide out the detailed information listed here to allow people to compare that information to the durability guidelines here to make an educated shopping decision, but if you are aware of such videos, it would be a great benefit to let other members here on the site know of them, or even better if you could post back the specifications that you were able to acquire for the models you were considering. It would be a great benefit to anyone considering these mattresses.

I think you may be referring to this post, which you may wish to read through completely, and my repeated attempts to reach out to TOBG. Regarding his daughter, she is still listed as the CPR President by the BBB and a CPR executive, but that information could very well be outdated. The mention of this back in 2014 was in reply to a site poster about a specific pattern of TOBG recommendations, and of course not something to consider regarding the construction of the CPR mattresses.

I thoroughly understand. The best advice I can provide, regardless of the stores you’re visiting or brands or manufacturers you’re considering, is to use the guidelines I linked to earlier in my reply for the mattress shopping tutorial. The steps presented there will assist you wherever you go to shop for a mattress – even online.

I’ll be happy to do my best to answer any questions should they arise, and I hope that you’ll be able to post and share that information you said you acquired on the CPR beds with the others here on the Mattress Forum!

Phoenix

67

Thank you for your response. If you mean Linda Klein, the CEO of CP Rogers, is TOBG’s daughter, I believe that is incorrect. She may be related to the owners of the now defunct mattress company that TOBG used to work for, by the same name (Klein) but she is not TOBGs daughter. TOBG’s had a son who sadly died. Inferring that his recommendations are skewed due to nepotism, when in fact that is not true, is concerning for obvious reasons.
Research is a hobby of mine since I do it for living. Thus, I researched not only mattresses, but also referral sources like Sleep Like the Dead, The Mattress Expert, The Mattress Underground and The Old Bed Guy, et.al. Some have a decided bias to refer certain mattress products, for reasons I won’t mention here.
CP Rogers was fully transparent with me about the manufacture of their products , as I shared. I am sorry that you as an expert in mattress recommendations were unable to procure that information when it was provided to me within 20 minutes of my email request. I read information on your site to verify facts. I will leave it to you to get and share information about CPRs mattresses since that is what you get paid for here. I wish you best of luck Ms. Phoenix.

68

Hi LindaKD,

It would be wonderful if you’d be so kind as to share those specifications with the members here on the forum who ask about certain beds in the CPR lineup. It would assist them in making an educated decision about those mattresses.

Phoenix

69

LindaKD - If you’ve decided to purchase a mattress from CPR it would also be helpful to other forum members if you’d share your thoughts on it once you’ve had a chance to sleep on it for a while. Thanks and hope your mattress choice works out to your satisfaction!

70

They are readily available on their web site, which is how I got the info:
https://www.charlesprogers.com/powercore-nano-p-611.html?cPath=4_290

There is a 30 return exchange policy, also on their site:

You can google “Charles P Rogers Youtube”, and get several videos on the product.

My time online is mostly relegated to work hours, so I haven’t the time luxury of doing research for TMU.

71

Don Goldman, a 30 year expert with CPR, was my contact. The toll free number is on their web site. Showrooms have all the content and specs on display, and spec sheets you can have emailed to you.
I am a consumer and not an expert, so you would be best to contact them directly.
There are also a lot of feedbacks from customer who bought their products, so people here do not have to wait a month or two for what my experience would be.

72

Hi LindaKD,

Unfortunately, the data you’ve provided isn’t complete and doesn’t contain in many instances meaningful information about the mattress in question. While the promotional nature of your posts will no longer be tolerated here on the forum, I’ll let your comments here stand as it allows me the opportunity to provide examples of the common mistakes that consumers unfortunately make when shopping for a mattress with incomplete information that they think is research.

The steps for shopping for a mattress are clearly laid out in the mattress shopping tutorial here, including all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help people make the best possible choice.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help one assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as hoped for, and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase which can help with meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation.

Outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

In the situation you’ve linked, the specifications are neither complete in quantity (listing all of the layers within the mattress) or quality (listing the density of polyfoam). Without this information it is impossible for any consumer to make an educated and informed decision about their mattress purchase. A similar situation occurred with a site member just a few days ago where they were provided incorrect/incomplete information on a CPR mattress (see post #9 here), and even the information on the specification card at the store was incomplete in listing all of the layers within the mattress and was incomplete in listing foam densities of the polyfoam within the mattress. Fortunately, the site member was able to gather the required information form a more informed salesperson (see post #12 here). With that information, a consumer could then begin to move forward and make more complete and logical comparisons and draw expectations of durability. After all, when trying out a mattress, one can not feel quality or durability, only initial comfort.

Videos can be a wonderful way to explore and learn about a product, but only when they are more detailed in the construction and include the information necessary to compare the quality of the materials within a mattress, as linked to previously, Unfortunately, these videos do not provide that information, so they are not a useful tool in assisting one in evaluating this mattress.

I am perfectly fine with that. But thank you for taking the time away from your work for these replies.

This is one of the biggest mistakes that consumers make – relying on the experiences of others and assuming that these would somehow be an accurate indicator of the applicability for a mattress to themselves. There are simply too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved in choosing a mattress for someone else to make specific suggestions based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance that can possible be more accurate than your own careful and objective testing (using the testing guidelines in the tutorial post) which is always the most reliable way to predict which mattress will be the best match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I would be cautious about using anyone else’s suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful, because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words … reviews or other people’s experiences in general won’t tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or “value” of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here).

“Recommendations” do much more harm than good by encouraging consumers to believe that their recommendation or the “feedbacks” of others is all that they need to find a suitable and good quality/value mattress, which absolves the consumer of engaging in any critical thinking or educated analysis of a product.

And promotional commentary, combined with dubious advice and snidely disparaging remarks, unfortunately has the opposite of its intended effect and ends up presenting a more negative light upon the very product that is at the center of the discussion, which in this case is unfortunate.

If you actually did purchase a new CPR (or any other) mattress, I do hope it works out well for you.

Phoenix

73

You said to respond back after I had experience with the product and since others have already done that, I referred you to those feedbacks. Now you say that is not a good thing to do. Too much drama and contradiction here. If you could please, remove me from your membership. Thank you.

74

You clearly had an agenda…good riddance.

75

Hi all,

Thank you very much for providing the best mattress education a consumer can receive. Unlike some other sources I’ve gone to for information, I’ve found so much helpful information on this site. With the core knowledge from Phoenix, the expertise from the “expert members”, and input from everyone else, I’ve been able to quietly answer my own questions without posting. So my first post isn’t a question, but rather a contribution.

At one point during my mattress search, I was interested in the two models from Charles P. Rogers that featured zippered tops (a feature I find highly desirable thanks to this website). Like many here, I was concerned about the lack of transparency regarding the materials listed on their website. I searched TMU’s forum and found some information, but I wanted to check myself. So I contacted them. All I received from the customer service rep were the total inches of latex–4" in the Estate 9000 and 3" in the Nano[sup]2[/sup]–and two photos showing model cutouts of these mattresses (attached below). No ILDs, no polyfoam densities, no ticking information, etc.

I realize photos without much context aren’t very helpful, but I figured they were a worthy contribution to this forum because CPR’s website is even less helpful. Even when I tried to “decode” their site’s vernacular using the images I was given as a key, I encountered confusion. For example, The Estate 9000 is described as having a “quadruple thick comfort cassette” featuring a “slow-response latex layer plus triple thick layers of pure Talalay latex”. Obviously, these words mean very little to us. But based on the photo I was given, I can surmise “quadruple thick” means 4" total; I do not know what the 2" layer is or the two 1" layers are. And the Nano[sup]2[/sup] is even more jumbled. It is also described as having a “quadruple layer comfort cassette”, but the features are “double super soft slow-response latex layers” and “double nano spring comfort layers”. We can clearly see five total layers and three latex layers, so I do not understand the descriptors they are using.

All this is to say: if you are considering CPR and want to know exactly what is in your mattress, you may be in for an adventure. I don’t have any in-person experience with their mattresses, but they appear to have mostly durable materials and solid build quality. I was particularly impressed they made their coil units in-house. However, their opacity about their materials turned me off and I no longer considered them after my exchange with their customer service rep.

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76

Hi BigTuna.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Thank you for your kind and heart felt words. I’m glad that TMU community and our expert members are a useful resource and can provide the answers and the information needed to make an educated and hopefully successful purchase. Also thanks for taking the time to share your findings and contribute to our forum … I appreciate it.

You are correct that even though one can find desirable qualities in most mattresses… without being provided with the information needed to identify any weak links in the mattress and make meaningful value/quality comparisons to other mattresses, most people would be making a blind purchase that may not fit well in their personal value equation and the parts that are most important to them.

For those interested in any of the options you mentioned there is more about Charles P Rogers on our forum in post #34 here (and the rest of the topic) and in this topic and this topic as well and a forum search on Charles P Rogers (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. Although these specs may have changed, there are more complete specs for the Estate Powercore 9000 and some comments about it (and Charles P Rogers in general) in post #2 here .

I am glad that our forum is allowing for “quietly answering” many mattress related questions … we can certainly see the numbers growing. :slight_smile:

Pheonix

77

Hey @Pheonix - Sorry for bumping an old thread…is that cool or does it deserve a new post…seemed in line with whats been discussed in the past.
Just wrapped up my mattress research saga and was between Avocado or CPR SE/Lifetime 3
There is a review here on reddit that I appreciated very much and OP gave me a few more fun facts: https://www.reddit.com/r/Mattress/comments/paoobm/charles_p_rogers_visit/

I pulled the trigger on the Lifetime 3 then went back and asked them the recommended questions in post #34…well that didn’t go well. The NY Sales manager was concerned I was trying to learn proprietary information and have been asked not to communicate via email nor will they respond. Cool right?. After we cleared up some of the background, I felt pretty stupid about that, thought my chart I sent to figure out whats-what would be helpful. He was a little more forthcoming and guessed I wasn’t interested in stealing their IP… It was either I DIY or buy this one…They are marketing to the masses and don’t get too many people interested. Anyways, giving back to the group with what I could decipher from the website and my call with Thomas x110 if you want to speak to him directly.

• Charles P Rogers Estate Lifetime 3, 14.25" from the bottom

• ~1.5" inch: Top Quilt: Dupont® Sorona natural fiber
o Partially plant-based polymer
o Breathable of its low water absorption, durable
• 3.5 inch: Natural Latex * Nano Spring Cassette comfort cassette unit for support and luxury with a light-as-a-feather feel.
o Latex layer in cassettes …
 Blue: softer 1.5" Talalay 24 ILD
 Micro coils in between: .5 sheet of ~5000? micro coils
 White: firmer: 1" Talalay 32 ILD
 How much is the cassette?:
• 0.75-1" inch: Intermediate support layer, inner tufted to spring unit
o Latex between comfort cassette and spring is tufted
• 8" inch: Powercore 3 Spring unit
o How many: 1000
o Double strength edge, zoned inner coils
 Firm tub
 14g pocket – tempered steel homemade – firmness
• Inner pocket, individual, compresses only where the body applies weight
• ~0.5" inch: Suspension Layer: Latex, shock absorber for the spring unit, reduces motion transfer, extends durability and
• ~0.5" Inch: Quilted down, like Sorona side panels w/heavy duty handles

Hope that helps someone. Fingers crossed its a good fit.

78

Hi bionicbuk.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :slight_smile:

Congratulations on your new mattress! “Fingers crossed it’s a good fit.” :cheer:

Thanks for the legwork on finding the details of the mattress. I am sure that many consumers that are both concerned with durability and suitability will find your info very helpful.

Looking forward to hearing how your new mattress goes once you have a chance to sleep upon it for a while, and hopefully your mattress journey is finally wrapping up!

Phoenix

79

Thank you so much for sharing this @bionicbuk! My own dive into mattress research including on r/mattress and here has also led me to the same two choices: the Avocado and the CPR SE. I’m trying to decide if I can afford the Lifetime 3 instead. I haven’t found too many complaints about the quality of the CPR mattresses, except for the ones about specific salespeople being cagey about information. Thank you for clearing that up and setting my mind at ease.

If you don’t mind me asking, what made you go for the CPR over Avocado? I’ve seen more complaints about the latter on Reddit, about people finding the mattress too hard (although that is subjective), shipping delays this year, and poor customer service (lack of phone number being a red flag). I’m also inclined towards the CPR because they have some nice foundation bed options (we need a new one for these heavier latex hybrid mattresses) that are also discounted right now. The option of white glove delivery is also tempting.

Sounds like you’ve only just pulled the trigger, so it may be too early to ask, but how has your experience with CPR been so far?

Thanks to you and @phoenix for all the insights here - I’ve learned so much, and this is my first post.

80

Hi TiredWarbler,

You are welcome! Glad to hear our site proved helpful in your research.
Hopefully, bionicbuk is subscribed to the thread to get notification of new reply and answer your additional Qs
Phoenix

81

Thanks, Phoenix I connected with bionicbuk on Reddit and got my answers. And my decision matrix finally collapsed and I went ahead and ordered an Avocado Green mattress with pillowtop.