Could pocketed coils beneath latex and wool be correct course of action?

Discussions General Mattresses Questions
1

I have a king slated foundation. Next, 2 X Coconut Coir Bed Rugs (Savvy Rest). Then, 4" Firm Dunlop (Savvy Rest) beneath a 5" wool tufted mattress (Shepherd’s Dream). I’m 23 BMI, my spouse is 33 BMI. Our pressure points are not being comforted, my back and shoulders are falling asleep and his legs are numb. The latex must go beneath the wool, otherwise on top it feels saggy. A 3" wool topper (Holy Lamb) doesn’t help.

We are thinking either a 4" firm or plush (not sure which gauge to choose) pocketed coil (Texas Pocketed Coil via Savvy Rest) may help if placed on top of the foundation, beneath the other layers. If legally unable to get it then thinking Avocado Mattress may be right. Hoping to use the $3K wool mattress as a topper. If not, then am thinking I can create a future futon-couch?

We are over budget and have lost much sleep. Already lost $$$$ while trying a triple layer customizable latex bed from Savvy Rest 3/4 of last year. Have been seen by a PT and Chiropractor last several months. Any suggestion would be gladly taken. My spouse and I are scouring this website for last couple of days; wish we had found it sooner.

We must go as natural as possible to keep the chemicals out of our home.

2

Do you mean a pocketed coil by itself or as part of an existing mattress?

3

Hello April, thank you for taking a look at my post!

The pocketed coils by Savvy Rest are separate, but designed to be encased with a layer of latex. The link gives you the visual and information: TranquilitySpring | Savvy Rest

I’m not sure if this company can sell the coil component a la carte; management is checking if legally possible per some shipping/fire policy. If we already have their layer of latex is seems like a logical option to me.

4

Thank you, and please update us about the status of buying the coils separately. I only know of one place to buy coils, and am always looking for other options. The quest for good sleep continues.

5

Hi jmteixe,
You can also search the foundation post here:Foundation Discussion to see what other options there might be. I am aware of at least three systems that you can consider - coils (whether they be metal or any other suitable material), movable slats, slats that you set the tension yourself (this is fairly common in Europe).

6

April, please share, what place sells coils separately? I gave up searching. I am standing-by to hear back from Savvy Rest. I will update you with the response. Also, thank you so much for the discussion link regarding foundations. I will review ASAP! Sincerely, Jackie

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The first link goes to the DIY branch of Arizona Premium Mattress. The second link goes to APM itself.

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Hi jmtexie,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :).

I moved this to the General Mattress thread, as it’s more suitable for this discussion.

Sorry to hear about the difficult 3/4 year with the Savvy Rest. I assume you are trying to return? Replace? Couple of other questions. Did the 2X coir bed rug, and the 4" Dunlop firm come as a unit? Or did you just buy them separately? Is the latex 3" and cover/wool make up the other 1"? I don’t see any 4" latex layers used, maybe it’s two 2" layers? I assume they are kind of trying to work with you, but it doesn’t look good?

Wow, that is a lot of wool. Do you sleep with both of these layers, or just tried them different times? I looked at Shephard’s Dream site

Thank you @April and @CBHWoodFurniture for adding great info. Arizona Premium is one of our trusted members, and they do sell coil units for DIY mattresses. Will the coil unit go below the latex? or replace the latex?

The coir / latex is acting as the support. But wool, while a wonderful material, is not used very often to provide a lot of pressure relief, and you are but you are missing the comfort layers. You may have read it, but A mattress in its simplest form is a sleeping system with different parts which work together to do two main things. These are to provide you with comfort (which is mostly about pressure relief) and provide you with support in all your different sleeping positions, which is out in this article, the basic functions of a mattress. Additionally, the mattress comfort layersarticle describes these layers very well.

So the coil is a different support system, but are you really going to DIY; buy and test high-quality memory foam or latex toppers, etc? Or do you think new mattress i.e Avocado or others?

Thank you again for the post, if you are looking at the hybrid latex similar to Avocado, there are a variety of good options we can share information about.

Sensei

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For other latex-spring hybrids how different do 2 and 3 inch latex comfort layers feel ?

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Hello Sensei, Thank you for taking notice of our issue.

You are correct, our latex is the 3" Harmony topper from Savvy Rest but with the encasement the total height turns out to be 4". We have 30 days left to exchange. The 2x coir bed rugs were purchased separately and not as a unit. I had hoped the coirs to behave as a cushion between our slats and our wool mattress…alas I was wrong.

As of last night, we are testing the Firm Dunlop topper, atop the 2x coir bed rugs, to see how it feels on its own, per Arizona Premium representative’s suggestion. The point of contact there doesn’t want us to buy/ or sell us coils before knowing if the firm dunlop is the correct density. My spouse has started to think we should go down to a Medium Dunlop. So that is one piece we will need to change no later than 28 June. It will take a couple of weeks at least to ship and receive the new layer.

Next, we are looking at changing our foundation. So, I mentioned coils above. They would be the least expensive option, 12" bamboo case ($300) and coils ($400). Arizona Premium has the 8" Combi-Zoned Pocketed Spring, which answer the mail in terms of mimicking the Tranquility Spring Mattress Savvy Rest sells, which is 4" pocketed coils beneath 3" latex all within a zippered case. (My whole reason for writing a few days ago was to see if I could achieve just that, coil beneath latex mattress…since we already own the latex I just needed to find the coils.) I am so pleased Arizona Premium offers coils to consumers, probably one of the only in the world. The gentleman who answered my phone call yesterday at Arizona Premium just seemed very intent to help, which gave me a sense of assuredness that I wasn’t expecting.

Just when I thought I had a plan, flexible European slats made by Berkeley Ergonomics and Flo Beds were introduced to us. If we went this route, we can’t see any major differences in the products. Thankfully all of the companies selling these slats and coils have excellent return policies. Berkeley Ergonomics flexible slats are made when ordered, take 2-3 weeks, their stores are only 4-hours drive away (if we wanted to test the feel), their slats are available in 3 different profiles, and the cost is $800 (not including shipping). On the other hand, FloBeds flexible slats cost $900 but their product is ready to ship next day. Their store is an 8-hour drive (one way) from my home so the cost to ship the foundation (add’l. $98) would be less expensive than driving.

Ideally, we want to sleep on top of the 5" wool tufted mattress and utilize the latex layer. Per Shepherd’s Dream advice, the wool mattress on top of the latex creates a buoyant feel. Here is their blog regarding this concept: https://shepherdsdream.com/blog/organic-bedding/wool-bed-configurations-1/ I would agree, the latex beneath the wool allows the wool mattress to give and soften a bit but not enough in the right spots for my spouse and me.

So, all said, what would you do if you were us? Do you have an idea which foundation we might like to try or work better over another?

Thank you again for reading our correspondences and for your careful considerations.

Sincerely,
jmteixe

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Hi jmtexie,

Thank you again for your answers. First off I want to give a shout out to Arizona premium, And I’m sure you probably spoke to Ken who is a well-known, and well respected here at TMU.

Regarding the flexible slats, these are very good products and work well as a high-quality foundation. I do want to point out that It is in the comfort layers where you are needing to find some variation from what you have before. I agree that wool is a great compliment with latex comfort layers.

For the sake of clarity, one has a foundation, support core, and comfort layers in any mattress. Sometimes these get all mixed up in discussions.

Regarding the suggestion from Arizona premium, and the point that your spouse makes, It may make sense to add a medium/plush Latex topper on top of the firm Dunlop topper. Of course, you may be able to just replace the firm topper with a medium topper. The coil products are support core, separate from the slatted foundations. The combi-zone is relatively firm, so I can see why Ken is asking you to try it, as if you just replaced the “2x coir/firm topper” with coils, and added your wool you will not have really affected the pressure relief you mentioned in your first post. Talk to Arizona about medium/plush topper which is what he uses 99% of the time on top of the coil product, and latex support cores for that matter. You may be able to try this at first, then decide of foundation, different support core is needed.

Hope this helps, message back if you have any other thoughts.

Thanks,
Sensei

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Sensei,
For the past 2 nights I have tried our 1) Comfort layer: the Ultimate quilted wool topper by Holy Lamb, which is 2.5 " to 3" thick (https://www.holylamborganics.com/collections/organic-mattress-toppers-1/products/organic-quilted-topper), on top of our 2) Support Layer: Savvy Rest Firm Dunlop on top of the 2 x coconut coir rugs, which rests on top of our slated wood foundation. I woke up with lower back pain because my rear sinks and numb arms because my shoulders aren’t sinking enough.

Yesterday, I ordered a latex exchange through Savvy Rest. We should be receiving medium dunlop layers in exchange for the firm dunlops in a couple of weeks.

I am wondering if I should cancel the exchange. Wouldn’t changing the foundation to coils or flexible slats make a difference?

As of last night, before I went to bed, my plan was:

  1. Sleep on Medium dunlop alone when it arrives
  2. Try wool topper or wool mattress on top of latex
  3. Try both wool topper and wool mattress on top of latex
  4. Change foundation to flexible slats or coils (6" synonymous coils or 8" zoned coils)
  5. Depending on slat or coil, buy a case to encapsulate the layers

Yours thoughts, please?
Respectfully,
Jmteixe

13

Hi Jmtexie,

Thanks again for the post. Some of my thoughts……

Understood on the trial of the holy Lamb organics on top of the firm Dunlop. Your description is clear that you’re sinking through the wall and both so your alignment is off, additionally, you’re not getting enough pressure relief, i.e. numb shoulders. I think the medium Dunlop will work out well in the future.

[quote]1) Sleep on Medium Dunlop alone when it arrives
2) Try wool topper or wool mattress on top of latex
[/quote]

Okay, noted on the medium Dunlop, I am thinking that you are still going to want your plush wool topper/mattress, as this is the field you prefer. When you put on top of latex I think you will end up in the same issue you had on your most recent trial.

Of course, I think you should try this, but I am concerned you only get “a little” more pressure relief, as you will sink down through the two wool layers, but really I am curious as what you feel.

If you go with the coils, you will still need a foundation. Whether it is regular slats of flexible slats. I know the flexible slats definitely act as more of a foundation and a support system, but I just want to be clear about the coils.

I see you going to these options but correct me if I am wrong.

Option A

Top Wool (3 or 5" or both)
Medium Dunlop
Flexible slat foundation

Option B
Top Wool (3 or 5" or both)
Medium Dunlop
Coil – (I say 6" non zoned, bit less firm)
Regular Foundation you have today

I can’t say what is the best way to go, only you can decide that… but my gut feel is with both options, you may have a need for another layer of latex or memory foam, to bolster the pressure relief on your back/hips and shoulders.

Talk soon,
Sensei

14

Hello Sensei,

We tried the Flexible Slats (Flo Beds) since our last correspondence. They are very well made and sad they didn’t relieve pressure points for my shoulder area. The butterfly clips supplied with the foundation allow customers to firm-up the slats (4 through 9) nearer waist through thighs, however needed. My problem with the slats was I moved around the bed half-asleep looking for comfort. Thankfully the slats are refundable and there weren’t any hard feelings.

Also, we replaced the firm dunlop with a medium dunlop. I think this was a good idea. As of last night, the medium dunlop is our “topper”, on top of our 5" wool mattress. The dunlop was beneath the wool mattress but the wool presses against my shoulders and causes numbness down into my arms as soon as I wake in the morning. So, we will try this configuration for couple of more nights before tring an additional topper.

As per your suggestion in Option B, and the feeling I am getting of (minor) pressure point irritation in my shoulder today, I am thinking about adding a natural foam topper to put on top of the latex: Evergreen Foam Topper Handmade in the USA by White Lotus Home . If you have a moment, I would like to hear your thoughts on this product, which unfortunately is not refundable. I have a functional nutritionist who proves my biomechanics rejects talalay, and I believe it. I love the idea of talalay but my body really doesn’t like it. So, adding another latex is not a good option. We have a wool topper that I have not tried on our current configuration. And, we have not purchased coils yet. Therefore, there are a few things left that still give us some options, the (fluffy) wool topper being the most readily accessible option at this point…but I don’t think it will work based on past experience.

Pillows are constantly an issue. Of course every time I change my mattress or foundation or topper the pillow has to change as well. I have an adjustable fill one with shredded latex (mixture of talalay and dunlop) but I am not getting it filled to the right levels yet. Therefore, my neck hurts after last night. I am going to try side sleeping tonight. If I sleep on my back, which I prefer, I would like a thin pillow to compensate for the small gap between my head and shoulders.

Just wanted to update you on our work in progress.

Thank you for all of your support.
Respectfully,
Jackie

15

Hey jmtexie,

Thanks for the update and nice to hear from you. Just a couple of quick thoughts regarding the Evergreen Foam Topper. Here is some of the description from their website:

Essentially this is a polyurethane topper, yes they tell the story about using these really cool oils, but a very small percentage of the all the chemicals are these oils, it is polyurethane just like many of the others. Yes it has wool around it, which is good, yes it is wrapped in cotton, also good. But the aggressive natural story on poly foam is just a bit too much of a stretch, in my opinion.

But we don’t have any idea what the density or ILD/IFD. So we have no idea if its best used below latex or above. Also, I assume it is NOT memory foam, so its just high-density poly foam, which generally speaking is not used as a comfort layer. I think you should email ask for density, ILD/IFD (firmness) and whether is memory foam, high resilience foam, or regular poly foam.

I will take your word on the biomechanics/latex and your trust in this. I have to do a little more research into this myself.

Lets touch base after you move forward with other options, or any other questions you may have.

Thanks
Sensei

16

Hello Sensei,

I appreciate your inputs and additional questions. The company responded with all the details about the foam, via this web address:
White Lotus Home: Natural & Organic Bedding & Home Furnishings, Handcrafted in the USA | Evergreen Foam Eco-foam. It seems like a better alternative than “other” foams. But, what are your thoughts? If so, it may be better than the medium dunlop latex I have but will order a sample and ask the functional nutritionalist to check it with my biomechanics.

After a year and a half, I think my body really just doesn’t like sleeping on top of latex, unfortunately I just feel tired and sore when I wake-up. Starting to seem like the dunlop must stay beneath the wool mattress. I am going to try ordering coils today. I am getting a Physical Therapy assessment this week for the numbness in my upper extremities, I hope there is a treatment that can help.

Sincerely,
jmteixe

17

Hi Jmteixe,
I have been following this thread for a few months now. Are you willing to part with your wool mattress? I always thought that a wool mattress is a bad idea since it does not offer any support. And from most of what you are reporting in this thread it seems like you are not properly supported on your bed and so end up with all these aches and pains.

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Hello, that is a difficult question because my options are to 1) try to sell my wool mattress on ebay (probably with a financial loss), or 2) try to figure out how to DIY futon/couch. Based on what you have read, what I have written, do you recommend a replacement? Thank you.

19

Hey jmteixe,

Thanks for sending the link. The polyfoam you are looking at is 1.8lb density 35ild. This foam is usually used as the base foam for a memory foam mattress. “My thoughts” are this will not help very much with pressure relief when used as a topper. This material is used for the support part of the mattress. IMO, it won’t give you the pressure relief you are looking for.

I understand your issue with latex, so the next most common material to try would be memory foams, as we discussed. Let me know if I have no answer some other question.

Sensei