Denver Mattress HeveaPUR

Warder45:

Can you please provide a link to the products in question?

Being a product with a foam core, these items wouldn’t be “true” latex mattresses, so comparisons to the earlier models you mentioned would be a bit of apples to oranges. Also, knowing the ILD of a layer of latex foam isn’t a reflection upon the quality of the foam, but more the indication of the plushness, which of course will vary in a finished mattress based upon the combination of all of the other comfort layers.

Unfortunately I can’t find these mattresses online anywhere. They were next to the restonic in store but all those had restonic signs. The 5 latex mattresses all had Sleep Doctor signs with printed labels and prices. They had 3 with polyfoam cores and 2 total latex. I’m wondering if the store owner didn’t order these from dreamfoam bedding and mark them as Sleep Doctor mattresses, tripling the price.

A little backstory, my GF just moved to DC for work and I let her have our newer foam bed. I’m now on my old college ‘Westin’ mattress (11 years old now) which is causing my lower back pain every morning and I’m not sleeping well on it. I’m looking for a replacement, but since it’ll move to a guest room in 1-2 years; the decision I’m wrestling with is go with a dreamfoam bedding mattress or take advantage of the markdown on the full latex Denver mattress ones. If I go with DF, I was hoping that I could use this Celeste Firm to help with my ‘Ask Chuck’ number.

EDIT: Looking at it closer, it seems DF and the Sleep Doctor are different, at least in the covers. SD had a brown side with handles vs the DF seems to be all white. They both have the same top with bamboo stitched into it.

Personally I can’t be of assistance with a private label item - there would be no way for me to know what is in the product. Your best source for that information would be the actual retailer. My advice has always been to only deal with retailers who are upfront and offer complete specifications for their products. If they don’t, I would consider another retailer who is more assistive. Maybe someone else here has more knowledge of the products in question.

I completely agree. One of the reasons I’m even entertaining the thought of the Denver Mattress ones even though they are 3 times the cost of a DF, is because they are very open about their stuff and they have an excellent return policy.

The Sleep Doctor store didn’t have a refund policy, only a exchange.

Hi Warder45,

Just to expand on my previous reply and to add to Jeff’s comments … I checked the Control Union website and they are still showing a current organic certification so it’s possible that they just haven’t updated their website (although it’s possible that the Control Union site also isn’t up to date).

Since they told me on the phone that their HeveaPUR mattresses were made with Talalay latex (which appears to be incorrect) … it’s certainly possible that their iChoice HeveaPUR mattresses are also made with Dunlop latex as well. Either way though … both Talalay and Dunlop are both high quality and durable materials.

Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will have some effect on the feel and performance of every other layer and component in the mattress and on the mattress “as a whole” so while they may be in the same general category as some of the Dreamfoam mattresses … it’s unlikely they would have the same combination of materials with the same thickness and firmness levels for each of the layers.

Each mattress category can include hundreds of different mattresses with a very wide range of different designs, different “feels”, different characteristics, and different firmness levels. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress “as a whole” so each mattress category will generally include some mattresses that will be a good “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) and others that use the same type of materials and components and are in the same category may but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on … even if it uses the same general type of materials and components.

I would also keep in mind that ILD is only one of several variables or “specs” that will determine how soft or firm an individual layer or a mattress “as a whole” will feel to different people (see post #4 here). In addition to this the ILD of different materials or different types and blends of latex also aren’t always directly comparable to each other (see post #6 here) so using the ILD of a particular layer or combination of layers as a reliable indication of how any mattress will “feel” or how firm will feel to you compared to another mattress with a different combination of layers can sometimes be more misleading than helpful.

Specs such as ILD/IFD or other specifications that affect the firmness or feel of the mattress are also “comfort specs” and aren’t particularly important to know with a local purchase because with good testing your body will tell you what you need to know about whether a mattress is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP and complex combinations of “comfort specs” are much too complex to use as the basis for deciding whether a mattress will be suitable for you to sleep on.

While nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will “feel” for someone else or whether it will be a good “match” in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress … outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel” and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If for any reason a retailer or manufacturer you are dealing with can’t easily provide you with all the information you need to know to make an informed choice and make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links that could be a reason for concern in terms of the durability or useful life of any mattress you are considering … I would avoid the mattress completely because it would be much too risky to purchase it.

Phoenix

Are you looking at the Sleep Doctor stores in Michigan? If so, what is your zip code? If it is the Celeste model of which I am familiar, it only had 1" of latex in it, if I’m not mistaken. Depending upon your zip code, there may be some other latex options for you.

Lansing MI, 48933

There is a manufacturer called Capitol Bedding in Lansing and they do have some higher-quality mattresses in their lineup. They may produce some all-latex models - I’m not sure. They don’t sell directly to the public but if you contact them they might be able to let you know if they have a retailer close to you that carries the type of product you desire. About an hour away you have Mattress Mart and they offer Pure Talalay Bliss products, but that might be too far for you to drive.

Those are two stores I’m familiar with close to you. Phoenix may have a better list for you.

Good luck.

Capitol is where I got our main mattress. They have good beds, just no latex (they have one with latex over coils though). I’ll look into Mattress Mart, thanks.

Hi Warder45,

Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list you wish to deal with is completely transparent (see this article) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your specific criteria and the quality/value guidelines here … the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around the Lansing, MI area are listed in my previous reply to one of your posts from a couple of years ago in post #2 here. The list has been edited since then so it’s still up to date as far as I’m aware.

I don’t keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the local or online lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

If there are no other latex mattresses in the Lansing area that you are interested in testing then you may need to travel a little further if you wish to test other latex mattresses and there are also lists for the Detroit/Ann Arbor areas in post #2 here and for the Portage/Kalamazoo area in post #2 here and for the Grand Rapids area in post #273 here.

Phoenix

Thanks for all the help. Given the lack of quality sleep over the past weeks, I’ll probably just make a decision tomorrow either going with the Denver Mattress sale or try my luck with DreamFoam and hope I can get the firmness I’m looking for.

Checked out the Sleep Doctor one again. The Celeste has 10% latex and the other one I was looking at has 34% latex. No other specs were given. I also found a ThermaSleep tag on them, but that still doesn’t seem to bring up any results online.

Hi Warder45,

This is the information on the law tag which is mostly meaningless because it doesn’t include the thickness of each layer, the order of the layers, the density of any polyfoam or memory foam, or the type and blend of any latex. The information you need is in this article.

The durability and useful life of a mattress depends on the weakest link in the mattress and if the mattress also includes more than “about an inch or so” of lower quality and less durable materials (in the upper layers especially) then this could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress regardless of the amount of latex inside it.

If the retailer you are dealing with isn’t willing or able to find out and provide you with the information you need to know then I would walk away.

Phoenix

I couldn’t agree more with this statement, and especially in this situation and my familiarity with the particular market area in question.

Thanks for all the help. I’ll stay away from that store. Didn’t like the used car salesman vibe it was giving off as well.

Did some more testing this weekend. After laying on the 9" latex from DM for about 10 minutes, I noticed that my upper back around my shoulder blades was getting sore. I did the same 10 minutes on the Aspen without issue. I was also able to swing over to Mattress Source and it turns out they have some latex beds now that are not listed on the Capital bedding site. Calling the company, he told me they took the evening dreams mattresses and replaced the gel foam with latex. He seemed busy and I forgot to ask about ILD for the latex.

At this point I’m thinking either the Aspen or ordering something from DreamFoam. The Aspen has the advantage of being in store so I can lay on it. Oddly for a plush mattress it was quite firm and wasn’t uncomfortable when laying on my back, side, or stomach. DM also has a good return policy which helps. The downside is that it’s pretty expensive for a mattress I will only need for 2 years. Also it’s got a lot of comfort layers which when reading Phoenix’s other posts on it, tend to break down first (especially with a 6’5, 265lb person).

Dreamfoam has cost going for it, however ordering online makes me nervous. I was hoping to get more info to provide them, but it’s not looking great. Capitol Bedding’s Firm is a bit too firm and their Plush is too soft. If I could have gotten the ILD of the latex they use, Dreamfoam might have been able to use that to construct something. Looking at the Eurotop, that would allow me to swap out the comfort layer, however I’m not sure how much of a pain that will be once the latex has expanded.

Hi Warder45,

You would need to duplicate all the layers of a mattress including the type and blend of latex, the thickness of every layer, the firmness of every layer, and the type of cover and quilting material for one mattress to “match” another one. Only matching a single layer based on ILD alone which is only one of the specifications that can affect firmness won’t necessarily give you a “matching” mattress.

I would also be surprised if the Dunlop latex they use is really 14 ILD.

Returning individual layers is a fairly simple process. There are some instructions from one of our members in post #5 here and there are also some instructions here and some videos here and here that go into more detail about how to roll and compress latex.

You certainly have many pros and cons to consider and I’m looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding … and of course to any other comments or questions you may have along the way before you pull the trigger.

Phoenix

Yeah I think I need to rule out Online. Given how hard it is to find mattresses in stores that work for my body type, I’m not sure how many tries I’d need to get it right online.

I went to Denver Mattress again for over an hour, I laid on both the Aspen and the 9" Latex. They were very similar, though again after 10 minutes or so my upper back was getting sore on the Latex. The Aspen seemed to put a little pressure on my lower back. The salesman mentioned do to the closeout he could knock another $300 off the Latex mattress. That would put the difference in price between the latex and the aspen is $250, with the latex being cheaper.

Maybe I’m crazy but I have it stuck in my head that the all latex is a better mattress, maybe due to the MSRP’s of all latex mattresses or the lack of layers that could break down. Since it seems the advantage of the Aspen is the extra comfort layers relieving some of the pressure of my upper back, which option would be better?

  1. Get the 9" latex and add a 1" soft topper?

  2. Get the Aspen.

I’m not sure how well putting a 20ILD topper over a 14ILD comfort layer would work though.

Hi Warder45,

While I can certainly help with “how” to choose … it’s not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will “feel” to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for).

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don’t involve what you will “feel” on a mattress, and help with “how” to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is “best for you” regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else has the same needs and preferences, criteria, or circumstances or would make the same choice.

In terms of durability … Latex in general is certainly a more durable material than other types of foam but of course it’s also more costly than other types of foam materials as well.

If the only issue with a mattress is that it is too firm and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress then a good quality topper can be an effective way to add some additional softness, “comfort” and pressure relief to your sleeping system but the only way to know for certain whether a specific mattress/topper combination is a good “match” for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP is based on your own careful testing or personal experience on the combination. If you can’t test the mattress/topper combination in person then there will always be always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice for any specific person on any specific mattress.

There is more information about choosing a topper and a link to the better online sources I’m aware of in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable and knowledgeable supplier (that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market) can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. A good exchange/return policy can also reduce the risk of an online topper purchase so I would make sure you are comfortable with the options you have available after a purchase just in case the topper you choose doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped for.

In its simplest form choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then …

  1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

  2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

  3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix

One more quick question, what retains it’s strength longer, Latex or Spring Coils? In my case, 15ga springs.

Hi Warder45,

There is more about some of the differences between a latex support core and an innerspring support core in post #2 here but the choice between them would really be a preference and/or a budget choice rather than a “better/worse” choice because both of them are durable materials…

“In theory” most latex support cores would probably tend to be more durable than most innerspring support cores but in practice the difference is probably much less meaningful because the the deeper support layers or components in a mattress aren’t generally the weakest link in a mattress and the upper layers of a mattress are generally the weakest link in terms of the durability and useful life of the mattress.

In other words … in terms of the durability and useful life of a mattress there would be no reason for concern with either innersprings or latex in the support core of a mattress.

Phoenix.