DIY Latex Mattress help - because forget going the easy way! *sigh*

[phoenix]

Hi Silverrowan,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

Thank you for the detailed information about your mattress search process. Unfortunately, much of what you’re asking is predictive, and even making predictions upon potential changes to configurations that you haven’t yet tested, so I’m somewhat limited to the good objective advice that I can provide you. With that being said, I’ll do my best to address as much of what you asked and hopefully that information will be assistive to you.

First, the basics…
While I can certainly help with “how” to choose, it’s just not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations with any reliable accuracy for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of components, because the first “rule” of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress. There are too many unique and individual unknowns, variables, and preferences involved to create an algorithm or to be able to make specific suggestions or recommendation about which type of mattress would be the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences). Trying to predict how a mattress will “feel” to you as compared to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or “theory at a distance” will never be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial), or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here).

I would start by reading and using the mattress shopping tutorial here as a good reference. Two of the most important links in the tutorial are post #2 here, which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best “match” for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP. This can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn’t turn out as well as you had hoped. Post #13 here has more about the most important parts of the “value” of a mattress purchase. This can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price and the options you have available to you after a purchase if your choice doesn’t turn out as well as you had hoped).

Outside of PPP (which is the most important part of “value”), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability, which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can’t see or “feel”, and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials used inside. I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern before making any purchase.

When you can’t test a mattress in person (like some of the online options you mentioned), the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help “talk you through” the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and “feel” of the materials they are using and the options they have available that may be the best “match” for you based on the information you provide them (such as any local testing you have done, mattresses you have slept on and liked), and the “averages” of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about “matching” their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else, and they can also speak to any policies that they might offer for returns/exchanges should your purchase not turn out as well as you would have hoped.

In its simplest form, choosing the “best possible” mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in, that are in a budget range you are comfortable with, and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses. And then …

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP … and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or “fine tune” the mattress and any costs involved if you can’t test a mattress in person or aren’t confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight/BMI range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattresses.

3. Comparing your finalists for “value” based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

And for more specifics…

Must Haves:

• alterable for minimal investment down the line; ideally of the just open up and swap foam variety.
• under $2000 total to start.

A component-style mattress system should easily fit your needs in this situation. You don’t mention the size you are considering. You can also see some comments about the pros and cons of a component mattress with a zip cover where you can choose the type and firmness of each layer vs a “finished mattresses” that has glued layers in post #15 here and post #2 here.

• provide proper support to two people of very different body types and sleeping habits (thinking split here; detailed at the bottom of this post)

Yes, this is easily done with most component style systems.

• • • currently both of us are experiencing back pain. (in physio for it, but the mattress is decidedly not helping matters any)

Unfortunately, there is no one best mattress for back pain. The key will be finding something using componentry that allows for more neutral alignment and hopefully doesn’t exacerbate your existing conditions too much. There is a bit more about common back “issues” when sleeping upon a mattress, and how to address those issues, and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here .

• • • my weight can also fluctuate dramatically depending on various factors - though I’m likely to stay in the lower end of my range, and possibly drop that lower thanks to current medications.

Having the component-style system would be convenient for this, or you could also investigate the use (potentially) of a topper down the road should your weight fluctuate to the extent that this was necessary. But I would focus on finding a comfort that works for you in a mattress without a topper bases upon your current weight.

• pain-free

This goes along with the back pain issue, as there is not mattress that can be guaranteed to provide you a pain-free night’s sleep. But deferring first to alignment, and then to comfort, can hopefully assist you in getting you the best sleep possible.

• highly durability (High durability of overall mattress; upgrading some initially low-cost parts is not out of the question)

Latex will certainly suit your needs here, and it is common to find component systems using all latex configurations.

• shipping to Canada (we live in Toronto)

You can start looking online and you may wish to use the expertise of the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. Many of them ship to Canada. There is also another list of online mattress sources for Canadians in post #21 here.

I know you’ve already been looking at some stores in your area, but subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent ( see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here … some of the better options or possibilities I’m aware of in and around Toronto are listed here .

High Priorities

• latex. Because apparently we’re both princesses and they’re the only ones we’ve liked so far.
• lower on that $2000 scale! Possibility of upgrading parts down the line to help spread out the cost is not out of the question.
• no in the middle of the split crater to fall into
• cool feel (our apartment heaters are not controlled by us and it is a sweat-box in the summer, and even sometimes in the winter; ac can’t go in the bedroom directly)

Latex will “tick off” quite a few of the boxes on your “wish list”. It is very good at point elasticity, support and pressure point relief. You can also find latex component systems within the price range you specified. Splitting latex layers, provided you’re not going to extremes in differences of ILDs combined with styles of latex, will not result in feeling the split in the middle of the product. as for coolness, while all foams are insulators to an extent, latex (and Talalay specifically) is generally the most breathable of all foams. In very general terms … the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more “insulating” and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that will discuss the “microclimate” of your mattress and complete sleep system in more detail

Nice to have, not really a priority

• unified surface feel (and unsplit surface layer to help even things out?)
• for me firmer feel for him, plusher feel; while I seem to need a softer surface and him a firmer one!

Many component systems will allow for a single layer for the top layer of the mattress if you desire, and even if you do this you can still have differing feels on each side of the mattress through changes of the deeper foam layers (although comfort changes will be most dramatically felt in the upper layers of the mattress). Even with splitting the entire mattress, the middle section where the foam layers meet is usually not noticeable.

Mattresses we have tried & quite liked:
Essentia: Their “soft” wavy latex (3") over not-wavy latex (2") mattress over more wavy latex (3") (“Bionda”). Interestingly, he thought it was the firmer of the two non-memory foam latex mattresses.

There’s not too much here that you’ll be able to relate to online systems, as Essentia doesn’t provide either the density/ILD of their Dunlop, and they also use a unique domed top layer on two of the pieces in the mattress you tried. The memory foam is of course an entirely different type of material ad construction. I don’t think you’re interested in actually purchasing one of their mattresses, but you can do a forum search on Essentia if you desire more information about them.

Foamite: two we really liked. Both latex of course. Loathed the feel of their memory foam!
Foamite latex in both mattresses is 100% natural dunlop of “ILD” 26 and density ungiven

None of the mattresses you mentioned are component style systems, and are using quite a few different types of componentry, so just like the Essentia, the testing you did here can’t be related to any component-style system that is all-latex that you might consider purchasing online. The only thing you can relate would be exactly how you felt on these specific items.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can “match” or “approximate” another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress “as a whole” so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn’t a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of “comfort”, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

You’re not going to find another mattress that uses the same elements as the Swiss Sensal, so unless you’re considering purchasing that exact item, getting the data about the foams won’t be of much use comparing to other mattresses.

• as I seem to consistently have a gap under my neck and my torso not sinking down, I’m wondering If I should try a zoned mattress or just go with softer latex. Or if I’m reading too much into things and a gap under the neck is ok? I know the torso not being aligned with the rest is not.

Having a slight gap under the lower cervical region is normal, as there is usually a slight lordotic curve in that region, and is the main job of the pillow to accommodate.

While everyone’s comfort preference is different, sinking in too greatly in this region can quite often be a sign of too much surface plushness. But this is a general statement. If you’re specifically interested in zoning, there is more information in this article and in post #11 here. Also in post #2 here and post #7 here (latex monozone unique properties).

There are hundreds of zoned mattresses in the market in many different mattress categories (including “all latex” mattresses) most of which use “fixed” zones but there are a few that use customizable zones as well. Some of the ones that use customizable zones include Flobeds and the Reverie Dream Mattresses (although they aren’t “zoned” in the more traditional sense of the word because they have cylinders that can be rearranged to provide different levels of firmness and feel). Some of the Sleeptek/Obasan mattresses also have separate zoned sections that can be changed and Nxtbed also has custom zoned mattresses and Elements of Rest in Atlanta also have mattresses that have customizable zoning (although they aren’t all latex). There are probably others as well that don’t immediately come to mind.

• how much are those different layers of foam and the contouring in the swiss sensational affecting the feel? Should my partner’s mattress have a layer of memory foam burried in it, or is this so low that it being memory foam is overkill, and a softer base may help replicate the feel?

All of the layers of foam work together in a completed mattress, and there would be no way for me to tell how each layer of foam is impacting the comfort that you feel, as only you can feel that, and unless you were extremely knowledgeable about mattress engineering and construction (which would be a very small percentage of the population), I’d avoid getting too deep down into a “rabbit hole” of mattress construction and I would tend to avoid using complex combinations of specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that are difficult to fully understand or only based on specs for single layers or components that may not be as relevant or meaningful as you believe they are then the most common outcome is “information overload” and “paralysis by analysis”. I would focus more on learning about the quality of the materials present in any mattress you are considering.

• the two most likely suppliers for the foam I’ve found are:
• • • Latex Mattress Factory (who will ship to Canada despite being in California, I believe) though I’m worried about the shipping cost. Their foams are also significantly cheaper than other options right now.
• • • matresses.net: not sure where they are located, but they have talalay latex, which is supposed to be softer, and LMF doesn’t carry. I have not been able to try out Talalay latex yet though.

Take a look at the options I listed in the online link earlier in this reply – there are many that offer the component-style latex mattress systems you desire, and you can phone them to check into shipping rates to Canada. The Latex Mattress Factory offering isn’t a component mattress, which is what you specified you desired, but you may wish to check out their other company, SleepEZ. Mattresses.net is in Arizona and they offer latex component-style systems.

• given that I seem to be best with a more basic slab o latex or latex over HR foam, and its likely going to become a case of zoning hips vs. elsewhere in the end for me,

How have you made the determination that you need zoning already? Have you tried a specific zone system and had a good experience with it? And what I see that you’ve tried was latex over a polyfoam core over another piece of latex, which would be a different feel than a piece of latex upon a polyfoam core alone.

but I’d like to try and mimic some of the swiss sen. feel for him, which ordering plan seems most viable? (we also have a single guest/snoring too loud bed the remainder can be used for)

You can read my comments earlier in this reply about trying to approximate a specific feel, especially in a complex combination of materials like the mattress you’re mentioning.

-my current plan is to buy a 9" cover, and order the latex from LMF while its on sale, ordering;
3" of: 2xFirm (38ild), 1xMed(28ild), 1xsoft(19ild); get those cut down the middle (or do it myself. is that a thing that will be too difficult to do?)
and start off with med over firm over firm for him and soft over med over firm for me and see where it goes from there, hopefully without having to buy more latex too soon.

• • • or in your opinion, would it be better to bite the bullet and grab a second copy of another 3" layer or 2,
• • • or experiment with additional total thickness? I’d like to try to keep it to one overall thickness because I don’t want to have to order multiple covers.
• • • or more layers for variation but thinner: 2" of: 2xfirm, 2xmed, 1xsoft order and something like
      med:firm:firm:soft for him, soft:med:med:firm for me to start
• • • or just suck it up and spend the 3.5K on the one that he can lie on without any pain despite the one side being not directly useable, and less well liked by me (buuuut, probably good enough? alignment still not ideal…)

I really think you’re getting way ahead of yourself with possibilities based upon possibilities when you haven’t even tested out a configuration similar to what you’re considering ordering.

I would suggest that you take a big step back and refer back to your "wants’ in the early part of your post and put those on a legal pad and stick to those things. Most of what you seem to desire can be found (objectively) in a latex-style component system.

You might then with to look closer to home, or use the listing I linked to earlier for the Toronto area, and see if you can find retailers locally who have systems like what you are desiring. I would avoid anything that is not an all-latex system, as that is what you are desiring to purchase. You may end up finding something locally that you like and make a purchase at that time. If you find an all-latex mattress that is not configurable and like it, at least it will give you a good idea of the types of layerings that might work well for you, and this is more easily comparable to online versions.

If you decide to look online, again refer back to some of the links I provided earlier in this post and check for component style systems, You may then wish to investigate about shipping to Canada, and then if you find that is available and affordable, I would have a detailed phone conversation with any company/manufacturer in which you have an interest, and use their expertise of assisting thousands of customers with similar needs, somatotypes and sleeping styles to come up with a combination of materials that they think might best suit you. You’d also want to inquire about any potential return/exchange policies at that time as well. Then, based upon your own careful personal testing, you’ll be able to see if you like the configuration/material you chose, or if you might need to make adjustments.

I know I’ve provided quite a bit of information here, but I think if you take a step back and drill down through the real needs you desire in a mattress and stick to products that speak to those needs, it will simplify your process and ultimately result in you finding a product most appropriate for your expressed preferences.

Phoenix