DIY latex mattress help ( budget )

Hi gardenguy,

You should notice that it would feel slightly firmer, and also there will be more of a difference as I think you said you are going from a 2" layer to a 3" layer. Also, remember that a smaller ILD difference will be more noticeable between plush layers (lower ILDs) than firmer layers (firmer ILDs), as it will be a larger percentage difference.

Don’t try to be too predictive with specifics in an area where there is no such thing. All ILDs are within ranges, and the overall comfort depends upon how all of the layers of the mattress work together. Only your own personal testing of configurations will determine if the layers work well for you, which is part of the overall DIY process.

ILDs don’t work in this manner and are not something where you add up and divide or come up with averages. This is why many manufactures choose to describe the foam layers as “soft” or “medium”, as it eliminates the temptation of consumers to come up with exact specifications in a situation where none exist.

What this means in “real life” is that trying to predict how a mattress will feel and perform using only one of many “specs” or variables that are involved can be somewhat risky or misleading, and even the most experienced mattress designers that are familiar with and have a great deal of experience with all the many variables and specs that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress can often be surprised at what a mattress was “supposed” to feel like based on specs and what it “actually” feels like in real life so in practical terms the only reliable way to know how any specific combination of materials and specs will feel like for you would be based on your own actual testing or personal experience. Specs can be a very rough guideline that can help you “find the range” but there are far too many unknowns and variables to use them to find the “best” combination or materials or components that would be suitable for any specific person with any degree of certainty.

I understand wanting to get everything right on the first or second attempt, but that’s all part of the experimentation and fun of a DIY project. :wink:

Phoenix

Phoenix, I wanted to thank you again for all your assistance, it has been greatly appreciated. It’s true that I want to make as few of mistakes as possible, however I suppose the mistakes are the teachers in the long haul. I went with the 28 for the middle layer, here’s hoping!

Hi gardenguy,

You’re very welcome, and I’m looking forward to learning about your new arrangement!

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

In anticipation of my eventual configuration and the desire to protect the latex layers for as long as possible but also feel the latex doing its magic, do you think this cover would protect it from the forces which seek to destroy it? Or would you go also put an allerzip waterproof mattress encasement over that? Maybe that is overkill, I don’t know. To me just the mattress cover with stretch to it seemed ideal and I would avoid the mattress encasement and just use a waterproof pad on the top. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

gardenguy

Or is there something better out there? My main concern is preserving the feel of the mattress WHILE prolonging the lifespan.

Hi gardenguy,

All foams will need protection from the mechanical abrasive forces, outside added materials (body oils, skin cells, fluids, etc.) as well as protection from UV rays and oxidation. Most foams will already have anti-oxidants blended into them, but you’ll still want to use a good covering. There are a myriad of mattress encasements available, with the most flexible generally being some sort of a cotton/polyester/viscose blended with something like elastin. These will interfere less with the point elasticity of your very soft latex later.

You’ll always want a good mattress cover for protection from wear and “the elements”, as well as helping to hold the materials together. DIYNaturalBedding had some interesting comments a few years ago about some of their latex samples and noted that the latex using a double wool batting and cotton cover showed the least amount of discoloration, followed by their latex using a single layer of wool with a cotton cover. Both showed minimal discoloration (some of which of course is normal). Of course your mattress will also have a mattress pad, fitted sheet, flat sheet, blanket and comforter upon it during the day as well. I’m not familiar with the encasement you’re describing, but maybe someone here on the forum here is and can provide you some feedback.

If you want to look at some other options, you may wish to look at some of the cover suppliers listed in the component post here.

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix, that is very helpful! I am looking around at the various links to covers. Just so I understand correctly, the mattress could benefit from a waterproof pad on top, but the latex still needs to breath correct? My thoughts were to order a cotton blend cover and a separate waterproof pad for the top only. I see some encasements made of a thin plastic(?) ,which waterproof the entire bed. Is that necessarily better with latex in regards to preserving longevity? I am thinking the answer will be no, since you just referred to a cover of wool and cotton, both of which are very breathable.

Some of the covers I am interested in have measurements of 38" by 74". The problem being my layers are 38" by 75". I am doubting the lack of an inch will be a big issue? I would think cotton-polyester would stretch. Maybe if someone out there has experienced this, they could chime in. Thank you very much!

Hi gardenguy,

You can read more about mattress protectors in post #89 here, and here. A polyurethane film for the upper layer would generally be preferable over plastic, as the polyurethane film will allow for some breathability and be more flexible that the plastic, but still be waterproof.

As for the dimensions, both your cover and your latex will have some “give”, so I wouldn’t have much of a concern. Also, having a bit of a snug fit will assist with keeping things in place (although latex doesn’t tend to travel too much due to its higher coefficient of friction).

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

That is very helpful information. I ended up purchasing a 9 inch stretch cotton-polyester blend cover, which appears to be of good quality. I wanted to feel as much of the latex as I could so decided not to go too stiff on the cover. This size leaves me the option to put my 20 ild, 28 ild layer and 35 poly layer inside, but also to switch out the poly layer on the bottom for 3 inches latex for a full latex build. I might do this someday, depending on how long the poly lasts or if I get adventurous. Right now I am waiting on my 28 ild middle layer in the mail, which will be here in two days. I did buy a mattress protector with a polyurethane film as well.

While I wait to assemble my bed I was wondering ( for future reference) if you could enlighten me as to the safest way to soften OR firm up a mattress of latex made in the 3 layer config. I know I am getting ahead of myself here but in case the situation arises, what is the difference from adjusting from the bottom up vs. the top down? This is assuming I only have a 9 inch mattress cover to work with, which is true. Let’s say I had s-m-f, and wanted to soften the bed but not risk alignment. Would the safest bet be switching out the firm bottom for a medium? On top I obviously can’t go softer than soft, and switching the medium out for a soft I’ve already experienced to be too soft( with two softs). I’ve been told by another source that changes made to the bottom are like half changes in feel, not sure how accurate that is. Or conversely if I wanted to go firmer it would be easier since I would already own a medium and could put the soft in the middle layer I suppose. I can’t foresee having to do these changes at this point but it might be nice to know I knew what options I had if I did have to. I suppose the biggest advantage of the 3 layer system is these adjustments, and having one soft-medium and firm may offer at least 2 or 3 adjustments. Although you probably would not want to put a soft on the bottom I read on this forum, since it would be a waste of a soft. Thanks for any information, I can’t seem to find an exact answer in my search thus far.

Hi gardenguy,

In general, changes made to the uppermost layers of a mattress will have a more dramatic effect on the perception of softness versus changes made in the deeper layers. In the hypothetical you described, changing the transition layer to a lower 20s ILD in Talalay or Dunlop would create a bit of a softer feel. Changing to a softer support core would also result in the mattress feeling a bit softer, but there would be a larger potential for a negative impact upon alignment.

Phoenix

this has been my experience with memory foam as well. anything less than the ultra high densities such as those used in the tempurpedic etc seem to provide barely any support at all for someone of my BMI (185lbs, 6’1"). I melt right through my Addable’s 2" 4lb gel memfoam layer making it mostly worthless at best and a hammocking risk at worst.

maybe memfoam is good when you put something between it and your body to prevent it from getting warm and melting too much, but idk most memory foam mattress layers seem like just a gimmick to me.

Hi Ajohnson,

All memory foam is generally quite plush (usually low to mid-teens in ILD), and a higher density isn’t necessarily a “firmer” memory foam (there really isn’t a memory foam used in mattress construction that would be considered “firm”). When memory foam mattresses are described as “firm”, this is mostly a function of the combination of materials beneath the memory foam. Memory foam can be manufactured with different speeds of response and sensitivity to temperature, and there are brands whose 5 lb memory foam actually has a “firmer” feel than their 7 lb memory foam. But expecting a memory foam layer to be supportive would be incorrect, as that is not what the product is designed to do.

While I understand your opinion, most memory foam mattress layers certainly aren’t “a gimmick”, but a legitimate comfort layer used within a mattress whose durability is mostly density-dependent, and like any other comfort layer the overall comfort provided depends upon the thickness, ILD, ordering and combination with other materials within a finished mattress, and the preference for such, like any other comfort material, is subjective and personal.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix,

I have run into a hiccup on my DIY hybrid latex mattress build. I was wondering if I could get a few suggestions. The 19-22 layer over the 28-32 layer is causing a lot of pressure in my shoulders, to the point where I can’t stay asleep at night. It’s quite painful really. I think at my weight and pressure point issues it’s just too firm. So my set-up once again is 4 inch 35 ild poly foam, 3 inch 28-32 ild natural talalay latex, 3 inch 19-22 ild latex. I’m not sure if I should return the 28 layer and change it out for a 23-27 in 2 or 3 inch. Or maybe add another 2 inches of 19-22 on top and keep the 28. I’ve been struggling to make latex work for me for around 3 weeks now. I’m not sure how much longer I can hang in there, as it’s causing some pretty moderate sleep disturbances at this point. I sometimes wonder if I should have just done two 19-22 ild softs over my poly foam but I didn’t want to risk alignment.

I suppose it doesn’t help that I’m trying to keep it at 9 -10 inches to fit in a mattress case, so my options are limited. If I ditch the poly base foam, then I would have more wiggle room but also more expense. I also have less experience with full latex than building off a poly base at this point, so everything I know would go out the window.

-frustrated

My gut feeling is 23-27 natural talalay for the middle layer and leave the rest alone. But I just hope it is noticeably softer than 28-32.

Hi gardenguy,

If you think you need just a bit more plushness, then your idea of adding a few more inches of plush Talalay on top could be a good solution. This would keep your “deeper support” consistent. Commonly the solution in situations like this would be to add a little more thickness to the surface (to isolate you a little more from the firmer transition layer).

If you’re going to stay within the limitations of your mattress encasement, then switching to the 23-27 ILD would be the next most logical option. With the size of your mattress, I don’t know if you have enough material to fold over your current plush Talalay upper layer to see what that might feel like on top of your polyfoam core using two 19 ILD layers.

If you end up replacing your polyfoam core with latex, you would be basically starting over with your DIY experiment, as you’d be impacting your deeper support characteristics as well as your overall levels of comfort.

While you may have run across this information previously, I’ll include it here as I know you are always interested in learning:

When you are dealing with pressure relief issues (typically numbness, tingling, limbs falling asleep, etc.) then it’s usually about the thickness and softness of the upper layers of your mattress and the “cradle” that is formed when you sink IN to the top layers.

If the more “pointy” parts of your body are bearing too much weight (what are called “bony prominences”) then you would have pressure issues because the parts of your body with more surface area would not be in firm enough contact with the mattress and would be bearing too little weight to relieve the pressure on your bony prominences.

In other words, the upper layers are about “allowing” enough sinking in to create the mattress cradle which is a larger area of surface contact with the mattress to relieve pressure and support the recessed areas of the spine. The deeper layers are about controlling any further compression than necessary for pressure relief to “hold up” the heavier parts of the body and keep the spine in its range of natural alignment. The amount of sinking allowed by lower layers has less effect on pressure relief in other words (in most types of mattress construction) but controls alignment. This is why when people change the firmness of upper layers to solve support issues or the lower layers to solve pressure relief issues they will often create new issues and may not solve the issue they are trying to “fix”. This is also why describing a mattress as a whole as either soft or firm can be very misleading because all mattresses need some of both. There is some much more detailed information on shoulder and arm issues in posts #2 and #3 here.

Phoenix

Thanks so much Phoenix, it is greatly appreciated, and helpful. Looks like I have some further studying and reflecting to do before my next move.

By the way. I did fold over my 19-22 ild topper lengthwise. I laid there for about 10 minutes on my side, absolutely no pressure in my shoulder and a real feeling of being almost weightless. It was pretty enlightening really. I was uncertain whether it would allow the occasional back sleeping but felt more supportive that I thought.

Hi gardenguy,

I’m glad you had enough material to try that out. You can put those results in your “real world” testing to help you decide which way to proceed.

Phoenix