I suppose it doesnāt help that Iām trying to keep it at 9 -10 inches to fit in a mattress case, so my options are limited. If I ditch the poly base foam, then I would have more wiggle room but also more expense. I also have less experience with full latex than building off a poly base at this point, so everything I know would go out the window.
-frustrated
My gut feeling is 23-27 natural talalay for the middle layer and leave the rest alone. But I just hope it is noticeably softer than 28-32.
Hi gardenguy,
If you think you need just a bit more plushness, then your idea of adding a few more inches of plush Talalay on top could be a good solution. This would keep your ādeeper supportā consistent. Commonly the solution in situations like this would be to add a little more thickness to the surface (to isolate you a little more from the firmer transition layer).
If youāre going to stay within the limitations of your mattress encasement, then switching to the 23-27 ILD would be the next most logical option. With the size of your mattress, I donāt know if you have enough material to fold over your current plush Talalay upper layer to see what that might feel like on top of your polyfoam core using two 19 ILD layers.
If you end up replacing your polyfoam core with latex, you would be basically starting over with your DIY experiment, as youād be impacting your deeper support characteristics as well as your overall levels of comfort.
While you may have run across this information previously, Iāll include it here as I know you are always interested in learning:
When you are dealing with pressure relief issues (typically numbness, tingling, limbs falling asleep, etc.) then itās usually about the thickness and softness of the upper layers of your mattress and the ācradleā that is formed when you sink IN to the top layers.
If the more āpointyā parts of your body are bearing too much weight (what are called ābony prominencesā) then you would have pressure issues because the parts of your body with more surface area would not be in firm enough contact with the mattress and would be bearing too little weight to relieve the pressure on your bony prominences.
In other words, the upper layers are about āallowingā enough sinking in to create the mattress cradle which is a larger area of surface contact with the mattress to relieve pressure and support the recessed areas of the spine. The deeper layers are about controlling any further compression than necessary for pressure relief to āhold upā the heavier parts of the body and keep the spine in its range of natural alignment. The amount of sinking allowed by lower layers has less effect on pressure relief in other words (in most types of mattress construction) but controls alignment. This is why when people change the firmness of upper layers to solve support issues or the lower layers to solve pressure relief issues they will often create new issues and may not solve the issue they are trying to āfixā. This is also why describing a mattress as a whole as either soft or firm can be very misleading because all mattresses need some of both. There is some much more detailed information on shoulder and arm issues in posts #2 and #3 here.
Phoenix
Thanks so much Phoenix, it is greatly appreciated, and helpful. Looks like I have some further studying and reflecting to do before my next move.
By the way. I did fold over my 19-22 ild topper lengthwise. I laid there for about 10 minutes on my side, absolutely no pressure in my shoulder and a real feeling of being almost weightless. It was pretty enlightening really. I was uncertain whether it would allow the occasional back sleeping but felt more supportive that I thought.
Hi gardenguy,
Iām glad you had enough material to try that out. You can put those results in your āreal worldā testing to help you decide which way to proceed.
Phoenix
Hello, I was reading some posts here and coming across yours notice we are on somewhat similar paths. If there is a mattress store around you that carry the latex bliss line (to get a feel of the different latex layers) they have one called the Beautiful that is a 6" 36 ild blended core, 3" 24 ild, and 3" 19 ild atop (all Talalay Globalāthough I am going to use Radium.) This is an extremely plush mattress that still has great support, and it seems like your layers are lining up close to this. They also have one called the Nature that is 6" 36 ild, 2" 28 ild, 2" 22 ild, which seems closer to what you might be feeling now, and that setup is a lot firmer. I am a side sleeper with shoulder issues and the Nature still causes some pressure points but the Beautifulās setup is a very good one, I think. My only concern is Iāve never owned a bed with a plush comfort layer, the Nature feels more like a ānormalā bed, rather flat, but with some comfort layer, while the Beautiful is luxurious. I am going to most likely go with Radiumās s9 (40 ild) for a 6" core and 3" s6 (25 ild) with 3" s4 (19 ild) on top, but it was suggested to me to buy the layers separately to get a feel of each one, I may only need the core and the 25 ild comfort, but can always then buy the 19 ild as I think this is going to be the setup I want. As far as covers, I have read that while the thick wool covers decrease some of the conforming features it really helps increase the lifespan of the latex, I have considered a wool cover for the 2 layers then a stretch knit topper cover for the last one. I hope this is of some use to you and wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Hi Alpharalpha,
Thanks for relaying your experience with Pure Talalay Bliss. I personally have never tried that line, but see there is a dealer about 3 hours from me. I have however done some looking into the layering and ILDās they use in their mattresses, just for a frame of reference. Just a guess, but I think the Nature model would probably be too firm for me, given the 19-28 layering over 35 ild poly foam was. Itās possible the 36 ild latex on the bottom of that would soften it up a bit, but I didnāt want to chance it. I have a layer of approximately 24 ild coming next week so I think this will tell me a lot in my testing. My intuition tells me I need under 25 ild latex in the first 6 inches of layers for my shoulder to sink in enough. It looks like the beautiful model goes down to 3 inches of 15 ild over 3 inches of 24. I think for durability concerns (at least for myself) I choose not to go below 19. I want the mattress to last a good long while. I think my 19 over 24 will work out, but if it doesnāt I plan on ordering an additional 2 inches of 19 to put on the top. I have a layer of 28 Iām considering sending back for a refund, but Iāll wait to get the 24 layer and see how they all intermix with each other. Thanks for your reply, and I do think something that falls close to the beautiful would probably be my preference as well.
As a side note, I found something called a mattress insert, which can be placed between layers in a latex bed in the hip section. Supposedly it spreads out the weight of the heaviest part of the body( for many people) to a wider surface area, so keeps sinkage down. I liken it to a DIY zoning, and probably the cheapest way. This insert is 1 inch thick, made out of stiff plastic and around the size of an extra large cutting board. If I have to I will resort to inserting this between layers 2 and 3( if I decide to go with a 3 layer system) to retain alignment while getting the soft bed I need for my shoulder. I plan on making my own out of stiff poly foam of 50-100 ILD, however.
Good luck with your latex configuration!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well!
By the way Alpharalpha, I also used Radium and am quite satisfied with the quality. I think itās smart to cover your latex as you stated as well. I went with a cotton-poly stretch knit cover, itās pretty thick and looks like it should preserve the latex without the need for wool on top.
Happy Holidays Phoenix, and to all on this forum.
Hi gardenguy,
Happy Holidays to you as well ā thank you!
And yes, you had the specs of the PTB Beautiful correct:
Beautiful:
3" 15 ILD blended Talalay
3" 24 ILD blended Talalay
6" 36 ILD blended Talalay
Nature:
2" 21 ILD blended Talalay
2" 28 ILD blended Talalay
6" 36 ILD blended Talalay.
Phoenix
Just an update.
I suppose I am starting to look like princess and the pea here but after trying out my most recent configuration: 4 inch 35 ild poly foam base- 3 inch 23-27 ild all natural talalay transitional layer- 3 inch 19-22 ild all natural talalay comfort layer; I found it was not supportive enough for my spine and just way too thick of a cradle. I like the 3 inch comfort layer, and I like the firm and relatively dead feeling support layer of poly foam on the bottom. The problem is, those 2 layers alone are not enough to keep me from feeling through to the firm base.
After trying out 3 different layers for the transitional layer; 3 inch 20 ild dunlop( returned), 3 inch 28-32 talalay( returned) and 3 inch 24-27 ild talalay (returned), I am quite confused. The problem Iām looking at now is, if the 20 ild dunlop and 23-27 talalay were too soft and the 28 talalay was too firmā¦then what options do I have? It seems I have tried all the ILDS which could have worked and they were either too soft or too firm. Maybe I need to look beyond a 3 inch layer and go to 2 in the middle instead. Of all the sellers I talked to, they wrangled me into going three inch, claiming 2 inch would not be enough, but I think I need to start making my own decisions now.
I suppose logically deducing things, if 28 was too firm, I could try a 2 inch softer latex in that middle layer, possibly mid to low 20ās in either talalay or dunlop.
In the end, the sellers did not wrangle me, just made suggestions, which is all they can do based on what most people want. In the end I made the decisions, however for me it was the wrong one again.
HI Phoenix your answer on budget of latex mattress is really an awesome thing , thank you so much
Hi Phoenix,
Thanks again for all the resources on this forum, Iāve learned about the possible options, which has been indispensable. For example, because of the info here I knew to steer clear of anything less than 1.8 pound poly foam for a base, what HR foam is, and that 5 pound and greater memory foam is best. Iāve learned to pay attention to alignment, pressure points, initial surface feel of softeness and soft as in regards to sinking INTO the mattress. I really learned a lot about what I actually like in mattress, and not just in theory in my head.
Well, after testing latex for 2 months or so, Iāve decided the feel of latex is not for me in the base of a mattress, or the middle layer, itās just too bouncy, like jello. Iāve realized in practical real world experience there are shades of gray which need to be considered, so all or nothing was not the mindset that benefited me. I had thought of avoiding memory foam entirely, but after ordering 2 inches of aerus 5 pound and putting it on my hd poly base, for me it has pressure relieving qualities I was not getting from all the latex. This was the first time I had tried high quality memory foam and not memory foam in cheap mattresses from China. Everyone is different I guess. I still want latex on the very top in 2 inch or less to slow down the sinking feel and give it a bit of liveliness, also separate me from heat buildup. Turns out this is all I probably wanted and needed from the start. Another thing I learned was that even 19-22 ild latex didnāt give me the pillowy feel I wanted on top.
Basically I was wondering if you had any opinions on latex over memory foam? I know Kiss does it in their mattress, as well as a few others. I want the high quality memory foam to still shine through so thinking between 1-2 inches is the way to go for me. Iām leaning towards 2 in either natural or blended, and between 14 and 19 ild. I think 14 would really allow me to sink into the memory foam below which is what I want. In the super soft latex would there be pretty severe durability concerns? I would like it to last at least 10 years, but want that pillowy top feel which apparently 19-22 ild did not provide. Realistically would 14 blended have more of a pillowy feel? I am not looking for support, but surface feel, a heat barrier from memory foam, some pressure relief.
Thanks for any info!
Hey gardenguy,
I know Iām not Phoenix but I can provide some color regarding the latex/memory foam combination.
A few years ago I had a mattress model using latex on top of memory foam over a polyurethane foam core and I found it to be a very comfortable (and popular) mattress. The memory foam deep down tempered some of the buoyant feel of the latex, and the latex on top was more responsive and helped a bit with the sinking feeling and the heat retentive issues of the memory foam.
In your situation, and reading through your thread, do you still have the 19 ILD latex layer? If so, try that on top of the memory foam, as the feel will not be the same as stacking two latex layers on top of the polyurethane foam core that you have. If you donāt have the 19 ILD latex, and think that it is still not soft enough for you, then your option would be to go with a 2" version of that 19 ILD, or go to a softer 14 ILD (or N1 from TG or N4 from Radium), probably again in 2" as you said. In the thickness, softness and combination youāre proposing, I donāt know that youād be able to tell the difference between natural or blended Talalay if blindfolded, so Iād choose what might be offered at the best value or perhaps something that has a return policy. While a small theoretical difference, blended can be a bit more durable at these very low ILD ranges.
Realize that using the combination of memory foam and latex will temper the qualities of each item. Placing the latex on top will slightly inhibit the feel of the memory foam that you like, but going with a very low ILD combined with a thinner 2" layer wonāt be as noticeable of a difference as using 3" of 19 ILD. It will also assist slightly with the breathability. Placing the memory foam beneath the latex (as opposed to using double layers of latex), will temper the buoyancy of the latex and slightly deaden the feel.
As for durability, while latex is a quite durable material, in the softest ILDs and in the top layer of a mattress, it will go through the most stress and while there are many variables involved in the durability of padding materials (including your own tolerance for changes in comfort), 10 years might be at the outer edge for such a configuration as youāre proposing. But that of course is speculation on my part.
I hope that helps!
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator
Mattress To Go
I have narrowed down my options to: 1) 14 ild blended. 2.) 14-18 all natural. 3.) 15-19 blended. I can get the 14-18 all natural in 1, 1.5, and 2 inch sizes, the rest in only one or two inch. Im thinking 1 inch might be a tad thin. What might be the advantages of the different thicknesses and ild s? Probly splitting hairs here.
Thanks Jeff! Just got your reply.
I didnāt see a ānew topicā button so I suppose if this is allowed I will put it in here. It said in the rules section this may be allowed for non-retailers.
Well, I was able to send all my latex layers back but one, which I kept about a week past the 30 day mark. I concluded after all my testing that I like a relatively firm poly base with thin layers above it for comfort ( 4 inches max). I will have high quality memory foam and a thin layer of latex over it, which I have coming in the mail. First Iām trying 2 inches of 14, if that doesnāt work, Iām moving on to 2 inch of 19. I donāt like latex in thick layers or by itself, just not the feel for me.
So anyway, I have this 3 inch 100% natural radium latex in 19-22 ild here, in twin size. Itās in great condition but Iām just not going to use it. I paid 239 for it and Iām willing to deeply discount it for anyone who could use it in their configuration or as a stand alone topper.
I forgot to mention this but I would ship it out the next day after we agree on a price and use Paypal any shipping speed you want. I will pay for half of the shipping, and we can start at $ 100 dollars, or best offer for the latex. I donāt want to go much lower than that, but if interested am willing to negotiate a bit. You can either private message me or respond here. Thanks.